The Angry Violent Right

Archy1221 said:
This is a legitimate thought/question along those lines.  
 

How many hundreds of thousands or possibly into the millions of Republican leaning voters in CA or maybe some major metro areas don’t vote because of precisely the same thoughts.  That there isn’t enough of them to make a difference so they don’t vote.   
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the problem in nebraska is that we many times only get only 2 options in many races....the sole  republican or a write in.   

 
Archy1221 said:
Unfortunately, many of those medical experts on TV did of fine job of this on their own. 
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Well in January and February 2020, the medical experts were warning us that the coronavirus was a global pandemic and likely to be very consequential. 

They said it was like the flu and common cold in certain respects, but substantially different in others. Their early estimates were that COVID was five times more deadly than the seasonal flu, and could overwhelm ICUs if left unchecked. Those who predicted between 300,000 and 400,000 COVID deaths in the coming year were considered alarmist. 

In March they underplayed the need for facemasks. Some say this was done to ensure healthcare workers had initial access to the limited supply. By April the experts were clear that facemasks and social distancing were the best available methods for curbing the spread. These simple methods allowed a majority of businesses to reopen. 

They acknowledged hydroxychholoquine among the many potential treatments for COVID, but warned that it was in no way proven to be a cure. 

The medical experts warned about a post-Mother's Day spike, and predicted both the summer surge and the second wave we're currently experiencing, mirrored very closely by the 1918 Influenza pandemic. 

Most importantly, they admitted what they didn't know, and tried to remind us it was an evolving crisis with no simple answers, requiring a certain amount of patience, sacrifice, and cooperation.

Donald Trump claimed the coronavirus would magically go away, pimped hydroxychloriquine and any quack theory he found on the internet, and took pleasure hosting large, maskless events. 

You're 0 for 2 on false equivalencies today.   

 
Guy Chamberlin said:
Well in January and February 2020, the medical experts were warning us that the coronavirus was a global pandemic and likely to be very consequential. 

They said it was like the flu and common cold in certain respects, but substantially different in others. Their early estimates were that COVID was five times more deadly than the seasonal flu, and could overwhelm ICUs if left unchecked. Those who predicted between 300,000 and 400,000 COVID deaths in the coming year were considered alarmist. 

In March they underplayed the need for facemasks. Some say this was done to ensure healthcare workers had initial access to the limited supply. By April the experts were clear that facemasks and social distancing were the best available methods for curbing the spread. These simple methods allowed a majority of businesses to reopen. 

They acknowledged hydroxychholoquine among the many potential treatments for COVID, but warned that it was in no way proven to be a cure. 

The medical experts warned about a post-Mother's Day spike, and predicted both the summer surge and the second wave we're currently experiencing, mirrored very closely by the 1918 Influenza pandemic. 

Most importantly, they admitted what they didn't know, and tried to remind us it was an evolving crisis with no simple answers, requiring a certain amount of patience, sacrifice, and cooperation.

Donald Trump claimed the coronavirus would magically go away, pimped hydroxychloriquine and any quack theory he found on the internet, and took pleasure hosting large, maskless events. 

You're 0 for 2 on false equivalencies today.   
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Yet I’m not because you didn’t address much of anything I addressed in the Plague thread of this subject.  
 

On a side note to address a few points:

Most TV doctors said we would get a summer reprieve and then fall and winter would be terrible.  Fauci himself said this.  
 

Most TV doctors were also ok with the mass gathering of protesters in the summer because it was for a ‘moral good’.   This is important because this gave the go ahead for others to feel the need to mass gather later in the fall for whatever reason was important to them. 
 

Most TV doctors are for totally shutting down restaurants when numerous contract trading studies show they represent a small amount of the spread.  
 

HCQ combined with zinc, vitamin D and Azithromycin is a treatment still in use by medical professionals today.  
 

The lying about masks early on (I don’t care about the reason) was a gigantic mistake.  It allowed people a reason to not trust those experts.  They should have shown people how to make their own homemade masks. 
 

so ya, there’s that.  

 
BigRedBuster said:
I'm in central Nebraska.  No vote in a Nebraska primary matters because it's all decided before it ever gets to us.  It's just one of the most pathetic problems with our election process.  People in Nebraska have absolutely no say in who is the candidate.
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California has been saying that for years. Until 2020 we had a June primary. Meaning the largest electoral state voted only after most primary candidates had dropped out and the nominee was already anointed. 

So if the slate had been wide open, what are some Republican candidates you guys would like to have seen in 2016?  Did a favorite not make it to the ballot? 

That was a large stable of candidates as I recall. The moderates got weeded out pretty quickly. A variety of states had their choice, and Donald Trump and Ted Cruz were the last two standing. Trump and Cruz weren't the traditional urban/suburban Republican candidates, so it really felt like the blue collar and rural Republicans had spoken. I see a lot of folks saying they 'd prefer a guy like John Kasich, but they had a chance to vote for him and didn't. 

 
Archy1221 said:
But just think, if enough people like you stayed in the party maybe you could affect the primaries?  
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I was talking with a friend the other day.  Instead of everyone bragging about being independents, we should actually be more involved in the parties instead. 
 

It was an interesting conversation.  In Nebraska you can choose Which ballot if Independent, I believe.  So it might not matter here.  But in some states, people are stuck with whoever is nominated.

 
funhusker said:
I was talking with a friend the other day.  Instead of everyone bragging about being independents, we should actually be more involved in the parties instead. 
 

It was an interesting conversation.  In Nebraska you can choose Which ballot if Independent, I believe.  So it might not matter here.  But in some states, people are stuck with whoever is nominated.
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That's backward. We should abolish political parties, not make everyone join one.

Political parties are private clubs. It's a sales job that makes everyone think they're the government.

 
knapplc said:
That's backward. We should abolish political parties, not make everyone join one.

Political parties are private clubs. It's a sales job that makes everyone think they're the government.
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True.  But how many times in the past few years has this board discussed the vote for third parties and how it might as well be a vote for Trump.

We will have a 2-party system until we don’t.  Until that time that most of us long for, we are stuck with two “viable” candidates.  Not taking part in selecting those two and then complaining about choices in the general seems kind of whiny.

 
Archy1221 said:
Yet I’m not because you didn’t address much of anything I addressed in the Plague thread of this subject.  
 

On a side note to address a few points:

Most TV doctors said we would get a summer reprieve and then fall and winter would be terrible.  Fauci himself said this.  
 

Most TV doctors were also ok with the mass gathering of protesters in the summer because it was for a ‘moral good’.   This is important because this gave the go ahead for others to feel the need to mass gather later in the fall for whatever reason was important to them. 
 

Most TV doctors are for totally shutting down restaurants when numerous contract trading studies show they represent a small amount of the spread.  
 

HCQ combined with zinc, vitamin D and Azithromycin is a treatment still in use by medical professionals today.  
 

The lying about masks early on (I don’t care about the reason) was a gigantic mistake.  It allowed people a reason to not trust those experts.  They should have shown people how to make their own homemade masks. 
 

so ya, there’s that.  
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This is just bulls#!t. You're projecting. 

Let's call them doctors who appeared on TV.  Not TV doctors. Medical experts. 

Fauci and others had hoped warm summer temperatures would slow the virus, but warned that relaxed protocols and increased gatherings could increase cases. The latter turned out to be true. 

Zero "TV doctors" were okay with the mass gathering of protestors in terms of coronavirus spread. Newscasters and political commentators may not have chastised the protestors to your liking, but the medical experts did not issue moral loopholes like you're suggesting. Everyone girded for a wave of COVID cases, but it turned out the BLM protestors generally wore masks and there was no traceable spike. The same cannot be said for Sturgis, where 250,000 folks gathered shoulder to shoulder to prove that COVID was bulls#!t and masks unnecessary.  

Most experts on communicable diseases have studied the situation very closely and concluded that indoor restaurants are highly problematic. They don't want to shut them down, and in fact advised on ways to mitigate the problem. But bars and restaurants have high risks, just on a smaller scale than the stadiums, malls, convention centers, and other high contact venues. It sucks, but that's the way it is. 

I already said HCQ was acknowledge as a potential benefit in the early going, but the medical experts warned it was in no way proven to by a cure. That's why it was important to listen to medical experts, not Trump.  Turns out HCQ was even less than that:  A National Institutes of Health clinical trial evaluating the safety and effectiveness of hydroxychloroquine for the treatment of adults with coronavirus disease 2019 (COVID-19) has formally concluded that the drug provides no clinical benefit to hospitalized patients.Nov 9, 2020

I don't know if you or I can assert that medical experts were "lying" about masks, but over the past 8 months they could not have been less ambiguous about the value of mask wearing and social distancing --- the type of science that leans into common sense. From what you've witnessed in 2020, do you believe that medical experts insisting on mask-wearing a month earlier than they did would have made any difference to the people who refuse to wear a mask?

 
funhusker said:
True.  But how many times in the past few years has this board discussed the vote for third parties and how it might as well be a vote for Trump.

We will have a 2-party system until we don’t.  Until that time that most of us long for, we are stuck with two “viable” candidates.  Not taking part in selecting those two and then complaining about choices in the general seems kind of whiny.
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And your solution to this problem is to require everyone to join a party? That doesn't solve anything.

 
knapplc said:
And your solution to this problem is to require everyone to join a party? That doesn't solve anything.
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I never ever said required.  I simply meant that if people are willing to let stupid people select candidates, don’t be surprised to get stupid candidates.

 
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Archy1221 said:
This is a legitimate thought/question along those lines.  
 

How many hundreds of thousands or possibly into the millions of Republican leaning voters in CA or maybe some major metro areas don’t vote because of precisely the same thoughts.  That there isn’t enough of them to make a difference so they don’t vote.   
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As far as metro areas, I don’t think it’s anywhere close to enough to make a difference right now. 
 

But, the Republican Party has done nothing to appeal to them.  
 

I know my Republican friends argue with me in this, but....they have become a party of old white rural Christian men.  They have no desire to appeal to anyone else.  Now, there are small percentages of other groups that help them get to their 35-40%.  But, that’s their base.  

 
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