ND is in a different universe as to being considered "special" long after the bloom is off the rose. But state schools like Nebraska or a Michigan for instance can fall for a year or two and remain "elite"--but not several years like ND. For parents across the nation (and old coach turned geezer ESPN rambler) ND still has some mystique--don't ask me why with their dumb coach--but it's different. Only Texas and Oklahoma are elite teams in the big 12 now. Oklahoma State was not far off. Until teams in the north win the conference championship and repeat, they will not be elite.
The Sweater Vest is feeling the heat in Columbus.
- Thread starter Axl_sued_me
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junior4949
All-American
So, OU in the 90's wasn't elite? I guess someone forgot to mention that as they were firing coach after coach until Stoops arrived. Just because you're not in the top 5 for years doesn't mean you don't have an elite program. To some extent, CU thinks they're elite. You say Okie State isn't far off, but what essentially have they really won? Elite programs win NC. We've won 5. Actually, there are only 7 teams that aren't Ivy League teams to win more NC's than us. As far as I'm concerned, we're still an elite program.
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knapplc
International Man of Mystery
Currently kids make the decession if we are elite or not.
Not fans or past fans.
Historically, tradition we are, but do you consider Army and elite team. They have won numerous championships. Past does not dictate what you are today.
If you took the top kids in the country and asked them if they felt they would play at Nebraska, what would the answer be today.
Most do not even list us as a possible. I know that recruiting is not the only answer, but that group is what we are selling to. They are not buying our product.
How many of the elite teams, winners, have won the NC in the past ten years. Every single one has been a top 5 recruiting school if I remember correctly.
If todays athletes do not look at us as elite, are we bacause we won NC's going on 12 years ago.
I have followed this team for many years, most likely longer than 95% of you have been alive.
We hit a nitch during the 90's and won three NC's and have a great overall winning percentage. We never concerned ourselves with recruiting, we got what we needed and won because our offense was different, very good but different and required different athletes than what everyone else was recruiting at the time. We were able to take athletes that other programs could not. The Big 12 was the start of the undoing of Nebraska as we knew it.
Now we recruit the exact same athletes for our offense. We have to be able to get those athletes that the top programs get to be competitive down the road. I think Bo will get an adequate amount of good to top athletes, to make us a player, but I do not feel we will ever return to the level we were in the 90's. Not negative just realistic. Can we win another NC. I would guess, but will we rival the top programs on a yearly basis again, I do not think so.
We have to convince the youth of today that we are a player. We have not done that since Tom left and really weren't then. Callahan lied his way into getting some top notch players and those have never turned out like expected. Most left the program.
Being good is a given, being elite is questionable. I hope I am wrong
Not fans or past fans.
Historically, tradition we are, but do you consider Army and elite team. They have won numerous championships. Past does not dictate what you are today.
If you took the top kids in the country and asked them if they felt they would play at Nebraska, what would the answer be today.
Most do not even list us as a possible. I know that recruiting is not the only answer, but that group is what we are selling to. They are not buying our product.
How many of the elite teams, winners, have won the NC in the past ten years. Every single one has been a top 5 recruiting school if I remember correctly.
If todays athletes do not look at us as elite, are we bacause we won NC's going on 12 years ago.
I have followed this team for many years, most likely longer than 95% of you have been alive.
We hit a nitch during the 90's and won three NC's and have a great overall winning percentage. We never concerned ourselves with recruiting, we got what we needed and won because our offense was different, very good but different and required different athletes than what everyone else was recruiting at the time. We were able to take athletes that other programs could not. The Big 12 was the start of the undoing of Nebraska as we knew it.
Now we recruit the exact same athletes for our offense. We have to be able to get those athletes that the top programs get to be competitive down the road. I think Bo will get an adequate amount of good to top athletes, to make us a player, but I do not feel we will ever return to the level we were in the 90's. Not negative just realistic. Can we win another NC. I would guess, but will we rival the top programs on a yearly basis again, I do not think so.
We have to convince the youth of today that we are a player. We have not done that since Tom left and really weren't then. Callahan lied his way into getting some top notch players and those have never turned out like expected. Most left the program.
Being good is a given, being elite is questionable. I hope I am wrong
caveman99
All-American
Let me get this straight, you are telling me that 17 year old recruits get to say which programs are elite? Really? So Rivals and Scout Recruiting ratings are the ONLY determinate on whether or not a program is elite.
junior4949
All-American
Hasn't Miami been in the top 10 for recruiting the past 4 or 5 years? They weren't even ranked at the beginning of the season. I believe Notre Dumb has been ranked really high in recruiting as well over the past 3 or 4 years. How's that working out for them? Same can be said for Georgia. Where has BYU, Boise State, and Utah been ranked in terms or recruiting? I don't ever remember Nebraska being a perennial top 10 in terms of recruiting.
Look at the results the last ten years.
He who recruits best wins. Every team that has won a NC or been in the hunt for the NC has been a recruiting power, not once but consistently.
The kids decide where they want to go, not me or you or anyone else.
They go where they think they will win and play, learn the skills to move on to the pros.
Those teams doing the top recruiting seem to be the elite of the sport today.
SC
Florida
Oklahoma
Texas
Georgia
LSU
Ohio State
Michigan Questionable, but most likely will turn the corner
The opposite side
Miami fell off in recruiting after the 2001 season.
Florida State the same
Seem to have done well the last year and may be moving in the right direction
When we were winning NC we took different athlets than most and some very highly talented atheles, Frazier, Crouch, but they fit our system better than the fit the others.
Now our system is gone, maybe moving into the modern era was not the answer, see Georgia Tech. We will know more on that tonight.
But most are defensive on what I am saying. I am not attacking Nebraska or Bo. I think we are moving in the right direction. I question how quickly it will happen, and Saturday is a major measuring stick
He who recruits best wins. Every team that has won a NC or been in the hunt for the NC has been a recruiting power, not once but consistently.
The kids decide where they want to go, not me or you or anyone else.
They go where they think they will win and play, learn the skills to move on to the pros.
Those teams doing the top recruiting seem to be the elite of the sport today.
SC
Florida
Oklahoma
Texas
Georgia
LSU
Ohio State
Michigan Questionable, but most likely will turn the corner
The opposite side
Miami fell off in recruiting after the 2001 season.
Florida State the same
Seem to have done well the last year and may be moving in the right direction
When we were winning NC we took different athlets than most and some very highly talented atheles, Frazier, Crouch, but they fit our system better than the fit the others.
Now our system is gone, maybe moving into the modern era was not the answer, see Georgia Tech. We will know more on that tonight.
But most are defensive on what I am saying. I am not attacking Nebraska or Bo. I think we are moving in the right direction. I question how quickly it will happen, and Saturday is a major measuring stick
Among Husker fans, the Husker's were are and always will be "elite". But that is based mostly on what happened many years ago. The recruits are not exactly the measure of whether a program is elite or not. But they are a good barometer of how your team is viewed among the athletes and those talking to them at about their decision as to where to go to school. I believe that only among fans is the Big Red currently viewed as "elite".
Now there is a great disparity as to talent--it is concentrated in the South. There is more talent within a couple hundred miles of Miami U than there likely is within all the contiguous states bordering Nebraska. So Florida schools (and texas schools) have a distinct advantage in recruiting. However for the most part if a kid is from say Kentucky or Massachussets and is a 5 star wanting to leave the state, Nebraska would not likely be on their list of "elite" schools. Schools like Oklahoma, USC and yes counter to logic even Notre Dame might well be. That is not because of careful study of our program by the recruit but because of the general concensus of sports fans and the media of what is an elite program. Instead of trying to convince ourselves how elite we are, I'd like to see us win the conference. That will put us on the path to being elite outside of Husker nation imo.
In the Deed the Glory
All-Conference
I think you have been in Southern California too long, sir. Year after year after year when recruits are asked all across the country what their determining factor for where they went to college are, you know what number one, two, and three are nearly every year?
1. Coach
2. Facilities
3. Tradition/Support
Location or weather are never listed. Never. You have watched too much ESPN, listened to too many USC idiots, and gotten too far away from reality out there in never-never land.
If it is only about location and that, why did USC suck a$$ until they landed a top-tier coach named Carroll? What about Alabama? How fvcking good were they until they got Saban? How about Texas? They sucked before "The Closer" Mack Brown showed up. OU? Stoops. Remember how bad Florida had gotten under Zook? In comes Urban Meyer. How about before that? They were never worth a shitt until Spurrier. Form your own opinion through research and critical thinking. Don't just spew regurgitated drivel like you've been sitting around all day watching Fox News and now think you can have an intelligent conversation.
It is about the coach, and that is everything. The right coach will bring the athletes and will coach those up that the morons at Rivals and Scout that don't know their a$$ from a hole in the ground about football missed. You really think that every HS player out there has an accurate depiction from Scout or Rivals? Are they really going to every game, or just pulling stats?
:steam
:boxosoap
Never mentioned weather or location.
I stated todays athletes are not mentioning Nebraska as an alternative.
Reason being we are not winning is my guess.
Winning cures all.
Stated top teams are winning the recruiting battles every single year.
Not a rivals or scout fan, have not looked at the rivals list in over a year. Never even seen the Scout list. I listent to the Rivals program on XM. Just to hear what fans are saying about their teams and to get Bill Kings thoughts on the games and recruiting classes.
I look at who we get and see who else recruited them.
Ours are very seldom courted seriously by the top elite powers now.
Can they be better, sure, can they be coached better sure.
But I do not feel we have a better staff than the top programs. Equal, close on par yes with most, not all.
As stated by a post above, most of the talent is in the heavily populated areas, and most kids do not want to leave home or the area close by. Easier for Florida to take the top athlete in Florida than to have him travel to Nebraska. Exceptions happen see Frazier
Do you feel that if Urban Meyer took over Nebraska tomorrow we would switch places with them in the rankings? How about Stoops coming here or Mack Brown. Could they take what we have and win instantly?
If you believe that then we have the wrong coach. I do not think any of them could do a better job than Bo is doing, so it boils down to talent on the field. Which coach has the best talent wins normally.
I stated todays athletes are not mentioning Nebraska as an alternative.
Reason being we are not winning is my guess.
Winning cures all.
Stated top teams are winning the recruiting battles every single year.
Not a rivals or scout fan, have not looked at the rivals list in over a year. Never even seen the Scout list. I listent to the Rivals program on XM. Just to hear what fans are saying about their teams and to get Bill Kings thoughts on the games and recruiting classes.
I look at who we get and see who else recruited them.
Ours are very seldom courted seriously by the top elite powers now.
Can they be better, sure, can they be coached better sure.
But I do not feel we have a better staff than the top programs. Equal, close on par yes with most, not all.
As stated by a post above, most of the talent is in the heavily populated areas, and most kids do not want to leave home or the area close by. Easier for Florida to take the top athlete in Florida than to have him travel to Nebraska. Exceptions happen see Frazier
Do you feel that if Urban Meyer took over Nebraska tomorrow we would switch places with them in the rankings? How about Stoops coming here or Mack Brown. Could they take what we have and win instantly?
If you believe that then we have the wrong coach. I do not think any of them could do a better job than Bo is doing, so it boils down to talent on the field. Which coach has the best talent wins normally.
caveman99
All-American
The big issue here is that your definition of elite is simply who are the most dominant teams right now. I would argue that isn't always the case, especially if you are talking about how a coach would look at it. You and I both threw out Army as an example of a fallen program, the difference is that in my post I explain why Army is different than NU. Being elite is more than just being the flavor of the decade, it is about being a dominant program with tradition, a loyal fan base (and also monetary resources), and being a presence on the National stage. NU has all of that, you can argue about the presence if you want but the fact is the Nation still knows who NU is and what the program is about. We wouldn't be ranked right now if we weren't and you can't deny that. However maintaining the consistent winning is what maintains the status. NU has fallen off a bit, but still played in a MNC 7+ years ago and has won 9 games twice and 10 games once in the 7 seasons since. Army unfortunately really fell off of the map since the 70's. That is nearly 40 years of non-relevance, that will kill any program's status. However Alabama, OU, USC, ND, and OSU by your definition are all examples of programs that went through or are going through periods of mediocrity that NU is experiencing now. Each of those have been and still are Elite programs. They are Destination stops for Coaches and I would argue NU is similar in stature.
I see what you are saying.
I am just dealing with here and now when I say elite.
I am not concerned with history or tradition, sell out stadiums or the greatest fans on earth.
What I am concerned about is what the kids think now that we recruit the same kids that SC, Oklahoma, Florida, Alabama, Texas, LSU, Georgia, Michigan, Ohio State and a few others.
The buyers/players of our product/Nebraska to Florida dictate who is successful.
Also each and everyone you have mentioned about returning from the abyiss have outstanding recruiting head coaches. Saben, Miles, Tressel, Stoops, Carrol, Meyer, Rodriguez, Brown and a few others average in the top 5 of recruiting classes every year. If Bo has a short fall that is it, I am not saying he has, but we are not recruiting on the level we need to be to be competitive with the elite. A few major wins, he may turn the corner, but presently we are not.
Even if Bo is an equal to Urban or Miles or Saben in coaching, you have to coach the kids. If they start with a product that is superior to ours it would make sense that when they are both done coaching, the better athlete would be the better player. LIke you have a volkswagon beatle, you invest 2000 in performance mods, you have a new vette and you invest 2000, which one turns out the best? Not really fitting but that kinda gets accross where I am coming from.
We will reamain a ficture of college football, we will be known as a major player. But until we can figure a way to recruit with the big boys and keep them, we will struggle to ever return to what we were.
We watched Miami devastate a team last night. For the past three years their recruiting has been climbing the charts. I do not know if their coach is that great or not, not enough time to know, but he can recruit and he is brining in a different athlete than Miami used to get. Being in Florida makes it easier to recruit and being the the 2nd or third best player there most likely translates into being vastly superior to the athletes in Nebraska over all. I am sure there are exceptions. But numbers to choose from close to home make recruiting a much easier battle.
Our offensive system is what put us on the map. Not having that may be the main problem we are facing. But kids want to play in the NFL so no matter how good it was, the kids did not want to play it or were not prepared to play it.
We face a much tougher journey to return to what we once were than every other program out there is my feeling. I would say Army has a tougher road to hoe. We have a lot of things working against us. Location, small town America, weather, population and not beating down the teams we should and not winning the games we need to.
I think there is good chance we start to change some of it this year. But it is going to be a long road back to where we once were, if we ever make it. But as long as they play like they have been, Bo keeps the program clean and our kids out of trouble, I have no problem with where we are at. I am not about wins and losses so much or National Championships. I am about not being embarrassed on National TV. A program that is above question. Graduates its players and makes good men of them. To the latter I think Bo is one of the best, and to me that is amajor positive for the program.
I am just dealing with here and now when I say elite.
I am not concerned with history or tradition, sell out stadiums or the greatest fans on earth.
What I am concerned about is what the kids think now that we recruit the same kids that SC, Oklahoma, Florida, Alabama, Texas, LSU, Georgia, Michigan, Ohio State and a few others.
The buyers/players of our product/Nebraska to Florida dictate who is successful.
Also each and everyone you have mentioned about returning from the abyiss have outstanding recruiting head coaches. Saben, Miles, Tressel, Stoops, Carrol, Meyer, Rodriguez, Brown and a few others average in the top 5 of recruiting classes every year. If Bo has a short fall that is it, I am not saying he has, but we are not recruiting on the level we need to be to be competitive with the elite. A few major wins, he may turn the corner, but presently we are not.
Even if Bo is an equal to Urban or Miles or Saben in coaching, you have to coach the kids. If they start with a product that is superior to ours it would make sense that when they are both done coaching, the better athlete would be the better player. LIke you have a volkswagon beatle, you invest 2000 in performance mods, you have a new vette and you invest 2000, which one turns out the best? Not really fitting but that kinda gets accross where I am coming from.
We will reamain a ficture of college football, we will be known as a major player. But until we can figure a way to recruit with the big boys and keep them, we will struggle to ever return to what we were.
We watched Miami devastate a team last night. For the past three years their recruiting has been climbing the charts. I do not know if their coach is that great or not, not enough time to know, but he can recruit and he is brining in a different athlete than Miami used to get. Being in Florida makes it easier to recruit and being the the 2nd or third best player there most likely translates into being vastly superior to the athletes in Nebraska over all. I am sure there are exceptions. But numbers to choose from close to home make recruiting a much easier battle.
Our offensive system is what put us on the map. Not having that may be the main problem we are facing. But kids want to play in the NFL so no matter how good it was, the kids did not want to play it or were not prepared to play it.
We face a much tougher journey to return to what we once were than every other program out there is my feeling. I would say Army has a tougher road to hoe. We have a lot of things working against us. Location, small town America, weather, population and not beating down the teams we should and not winning the games we need to.
I think there is good chance we start to change some of it this year. But it is going to be a long road back to where we once were, if we ever make it. But as long as they play like they have been, Bo keeps the program clean and our kids out of trouble, I have no problem with where we are at. I am not about wins and losses so much or National Championships. I am about not being embarrassed on National TV. A program that is above question. Graduates its players and makes good men of them. To the latter I think Bo is one of the best, and to me that is amajor positive for the program.
junior4949
All-American
In 2002, Miami finished with the 8th best recruiting class according to Rivals. In 2003, Miami finished 5th. In 2004, Miami finished 4th. In 2005, Miami finished 7th. In 2006, Miami finished 14th. In 2007, Miami finished 19th. In 2008, Miami finished 5th. In 2009, Miami finished 15th. How exactly has Miami's recruiting fallen off since 2001? Now, on to you next so called recruiting fall off Florida State. 02, they were rth. 03, they were 21st. 04, they were 3rd. 05, they were 2nd. 06, they were 3rd. 07, they were 21st. 08, they were 9th. 09, they were 7th. How exactly has Florida State's recruiting fallen off since 2001? Do you always just shoot from the hip?