The Sweater Vest is feeling the heat in Columbus.

[In the Deed the Glory]

Never mentioned weather or location.

I stated todays athletes are not mentioning Nebraska as an alternative.

Reason being we are not winning is my guess.

Winning cures all.

Stated top teams are winning the recruiting battles every single year.

Not a rivals or scout fan, have not looked at the rivals list in over a year. Never even seen the Scout list. I listent to the Rivals program on XM. Just to hear what fans are saying about their teams and to get Bill Kings thoughts on the games and recruiting classes.

I look at who we get and see who else recruited them.

Ours are very seldom courted seriously by the top elite powers now.

Can they be better, sure, can they be coached better sure.

But I do not feel we have a better staff than the top programs. Equal, close on par yes with most, not all.

As stated by a post above, most of the talent is in the heavily populated areas, and most kids do not want to leave home or the area close by. Easier for Florida to take the top athlete in Florida than to have him travel to Nebraska. Exceptions happen see Frazier

Do you feel that if Urban Meyer took over Nebraska tomorrow we would switch places with them in the rankings? How about Stoops coming here or Mack Brown. Could they take what we have and win instantly?

If you believe that then we have the wrong coach. I do not think any of them could do a better job than Bo is doing, so it boils down to talent on the field. Which coach has the best talent wins normally.

I think we may be agreeing here more than we know. I don't think they could change it right away, but it can be done. Win 9-10 games a few years. Beat a highly ranked team, and you start pulling the right kind of player for your system. Sometimes it only takes 1 or 2 game breakers on offense and you start to see dominance.

You mention that those coaches are great recruiters, and I agree. However, is that because they are that great at recruiting or is it because of the facilities and the fact that the athletes know they are a good coach? You said it before that Callahan pulled the wool over these kid's eyes, I think kids like Bo because he is a straight shooter. I also think right now he is targeting a few of the top-tier guys but is also looking at diamonds in the rough that the top recruiting schools are missing. That is what TO did.

I only have a problem with one thing you've said now that I think we are kind of on the same page, we just have a different personal belief on how you determine "elite". That's the beauty of opinions, I think. The thing I didn't like that you said was that when TO left we didn't have the elite athletes like the other programs. We put more players in the NFL, especially on defense, than nearly every team out there. FSU and Miami were the only ones with more. TO got the talent but, more importantly, he and his staff coached them when he got there. I feel Bo is in that mold.

Does that mean we may have to wait longer for our "return"? Maybe, but at least it will be done our way.

BTW, sorry to "attack" you. I just get pissed at the "you can't get good players to NU because it's cold" crowd. That argument is ridiculous. I inadvertently mixed you in that group. Sorry for that.

 

[caveman99]

LIke you have a volkswagon beatle, you invest 2000 in performance mods, you have a new vette and you invest 2000, which one turns out the best? Not really fitting but that kinda gets accross where I am coming from.

Different perspectives on this and that is ok, I get where you are coming from. The only thing I will say is that I think you need temper off the recruiting Top 5 classes to get back to elite rhetoric. I don't think they will have to be that high to be elite again per your definition. You example above actually shows this a bit. If you only had a straight line option to get to the finish line, then maybe the Vette would win most of the time. However that is the beauty of Football, it isn't always who is good at a drag race that wins. Every program has its own way of getting to the finish line. VT does it with D and STs. Florida went to a Spread attack. GT does it with the Triple Option. Point is that there are many flavors of cars out there. Those that have the right parts under the hood to make that car as fast as possible in the style of race they are best at will win. Heck all we have to do is look at the Huskers vs. Florida, Miami, Florida State, etc. in the 80's and 90's to see that a different mix of talents on certain teams works. Bo has recruited pretty well, he has more athletes that fit what he is trying to do on D. I would like to see him in the Top 15 or 10 recruiting classes most of the time and they need to win to do that, but I don't think Top 5 all of the time is reasonable nor necessary to be elite at NU again per your definition.

 

[skersfan]

My thinking on Florida State and Miami was that they have been dominant on the recruiting side and had fallen some. Coaching changes affected Miami, and Bowden not really doing much coaching anymore played a part in it.

Check where they were prior and during the 90's.

College football is changing. Like I said I really do not pay much attention to Rivals or Scout, but I feel for us to be on their level we have to have near the same kids they do.

Diamonds in the rough are out there, but if Pete Carrol thinks a player is good, my guess is that he most likely is. Most likley not going to change the players mind if he decides to go that way though.

I think we are headed the right way, I just do not feel we will ever return to what we once were. I can live with that, I just do not want to see us fall farther than we have. Some place in the middle would be excelent for me.

 

[junior4949]

Florida State's last 4 classes have averaged 10th, yet they're not ranked in the top 25. Miami supposedly rid themselves of Coker due to recruiting, but his recruiting was much better than Shannon's. Coker's average ranking was 7.5 in his last 4 years. With those recruits, Shannon managed a whopping 12-13 record in his first two years. Shannon's recruiting average is 13th. To put this into perspective, Texas being the #2 team in the country has an average ranking at 7.25 which isn't much better than Florida State. Does Florida State beat Texas? OU has an average of 10.5 over the past 4 years which is worse than Florida State. In the past 4 years, Boise State; Utah; and BYU haven't once cracked the top 25 according to Rivals in recruiting. At the end of the day, it still comes down to coaching. 3 of the last 4 recruiting classes had UCLA in the top 17. They're not exactly showing it on the field yet. Georgia over the past 4 years is averaging 6.5 in recruiting, yet they lost to Okie State which has only had one top 25 recruiting class which came in at 22 in 2006.

 

[skersfan]

Junior you point out some good facts.

I think some of the top programs end up dropping in rankings some years because of class limitations. A lot of Callahans classes were huge and that helped his rankings, not so much quality as quantity.

I know Texas had a year where they could only take 11 or something like that. Like I said I do not follow rivals or scout, just form what I hear about the overall classes.

Coaching makes a difference, polls are what they are until the end of the year as we all know. Ironically Stoops has never won anything with kids he recruited.

Who is kissing who this early it seems.

But if you look at who has won the Crystal Balls over the last 10 years you will find (I think) top recruiting programs winning every year. The one exception I think was Ohio State the year Tressel won it.

Utah and Boise State are the real exceptions to the rule and BYU would be this year.

The past National Champions have been Florida, LSU, SC, Ohio State, Oklahoma, Miami, Floriada State not so much in that order.

Miami and Florida State won in their hay days of recruiting is my guess.

But teams averaging in the teens to the twenties are not represented in the National Championsip game except for maybe Ohio State, but Ohio State has recruited better with Tressel I think.

This year the favorites are Florida, SC, Texas, Penn State, Alabama I would guess. Miami may be making another run, we may have a better idea next week on them and that game could give us real idea of where we are.

College football, you never know what is going to happen. But if you are going to win the NC you better recruit and do it well.

 

[junior4949]

In a 4 year run, Nebraska has never had a 4 year average close to 10. Yet, we had one of the best runs ever in terms of NC. There are coaches that can do more with less. There are coaches that do less with more. It's funny you mention Penn State in the running for the NC this year due to the fact that in the past 4 years they've only had 2 of their recruiting classes in the top 25 and one of those was #24. In terms of how Rivals ranks the classes has absolutely nothing to do with how many players you recruit. Rather, they average their stars. So, it wouldn't matter if you recruited 5 players or 25 players because it comes down to the star rating of each player and then averaged. If we're going to strictly use recruiting as a way of measuring teams and coaches, it appears that Georgia, Michigan, Notre Dumb, Florida State, and UCLA have a big tendancy to under utilize their talent.

 

[In the Deed the Glory]

Junior you point out some good facts.

I think some of the top programs end up dropping in rankings some years because of class limitations. A lot of Callahans classes were huge and that helped his rankings, not so much quality as quantity.

I know Texas had a year where they could only take 11 or something like that. Like I said I do not follow rivals or scout, just form what I hear about the overall classes.

Coaching makes a difference, polls are what they are until the end of the year as we all know. Ironically Stoops has never won anything with kids he recruited.

Who is kissing who this early it seems.

But if you look at who has won the Crystal Balls over the last 10 years you will find (I think) top recruiting programs winning every year. The one exception I think was Ohio State the year Tressel won it.

Utah and Boise State are the real exceptions to the rule and BYU would be this year.

The past National Champions have been Florida, LSU, SC, Ohio State, Oklahoma, Miami, Floriada State not so much in that order.

Miami and Florida State won in their hay days of recruiting is my guess.

But teams averaging in the teens to the twenties are not represented in the National Championsip game except for maybe Ohio State, but Ohio State has recruited better with Tressel I think.

This year the favorites are Florida, SC, Texas, Penn State, Alabama I would guess. Miami may be making another run, we may have a better idea next week on them and that game could give us real idea of where we are.

College football, you never know what is going to happen. But if you are going to win the NC you better recruit and do it well.

Nothing, are you friggin' kidding me?

How about the fact he has won......

wait for it.....

the Big 12 South every year but 2 and

the sum bitchin' CONFERENCE CHAMPIONSHIP 5 times, out of 8 seasons.

 

[skersfan]

What I was saying he won the NC with Blakes kids, he has not won since and has not looked very good in any of the ones he has played in.

I am not that impressed with Stoops, I honestly think Bo is a better coach, but that is just me.

But his teams have been rated highly in recruiting every year he has played for the NC. And he has shown that teams not nearly as talented can knock off the top teams.

Like I said anything can happen.

I am not trying to offend you guys or poo pooing your thoughts by any means. I just march to a different drum than most of you.

I really try to see it the way other people not so close to Nebraska see it. We are different fans than most, we live breath it year around. No real competition with in the state to take our minds off of it. And I love that about you guys. Just because I do not agree with you or you with me does not mean we are less of a fan, less dedicated, less concnerned. All of us want one thing. Nebraska Back!! Some a little farther than others I guess.

As to the Nebraska run. Many things contributed to it. Great talent that fit our offense, better than others. Tommy was a highly recruited athlete, but most wanted him to change positions or run a pass based offense, he went where he thought he could win, get the support he needed. Frost on the other hand did not want to be a running QB. He wanted to be an NFL QB and sought out Walsh to teach him. He left when they decided he was a safety. He fit our system better and flourished.

Our O linemen were considered too small/short for a pass happy system, but they worked great as road graders. Just different things that helped in those days. Different accademic standards at Nebraska back then. Allowed us to recruit some that Texas, Pac Ten and Big Ten could not. We really had very little competition in the conference, Oklahoma was down and KState was coming but never quite got there. We played one real tough game a year normally, now we play a number within conference. There were no Missouri's or Kansas to contend with like they are now. A lot has changed but not our expectations.

We had a defensive jugornaut, easy to keep them coming, but when those coaches left it seems the draw to Nebraska left or the recruiting slowed for those athletes, not sure why it happened.

I think it is way tougher for a team to be dominant now than it was then.

I look at the talent SC has, but they never got close to our record of 60-3. Florida might win three in four but their record willnot be as good. We have a very high standard to get back to.