The Unfathomable

LaunchCode said:
Swiney's first 3 seasons:

4-3

9-5

6-7 (including wins vs N. Texas and Presbyterian)

Following your satisfaction standards would have cost a National Championship.  Pretty steep price wouldn't you say.    

Swiney also inherited a team that had been bringing in top 15 classes prior to his arrival.  Compared to what MR walked into, shouldn't Swiney's record have been better than MR's?     
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Possibly but that is not the only standard I apply. This is year 3 and I expect to see some form of progress being made. I cannot in good conscience say that anything I've seen in these first 3 games signifies progress. If there were any bright spots, anything at all, my preference would be to give it more time because staff changes are disruptive and usually add more time to get to where you want to be. Maybe you disagree with me or just aren't as far along in the recognition process as I am. That's fine. I won't be douching up every topic on the board demanding his removal. But yes, I've seen enough to know this dog won't hunt.

 
LaunchCode said:
Swiney's first 3 seasons:

4-3

9-5

6-7 (including wins vs N. Texas and Presbyterian)

Following your satisfaction standards would have cost a National Championship.  Pretty steep price wouldn't you say.    

Swiney also inherited a team that had been bringing in top 15 classes prior to his arrival.  Compared to what MR walked into, shouldn't Swiney's record have been better than MR's?     
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Funny how you make sure to point out two teams that they blew out to try to discredit some of the wins but neglected to state that some of their losses were to eventual national champion Auburn in overtime, as well as two other Top 25 teams by five and three points and six their seven losses were by a total of 31 points.  That's not a great season but they played respectable.  Not to mention that the actual comparison to our performance this year would be the following year (third full season) when they went 10-4, won the conference and made a New Year's Six game.  Doesn't appear to be the track that we're on.

And there are always exceptions to the rule.  For each one example you can site, how many counter-examples do you want to see?  10?  20?  50?  Wouldn't be tough.

 
El Diaco said:
Possibly but that is not the only standard I apply. This is year 3 and I expect to see some form of progress being made. I cannot in good conscience say that anything I've seen in these first 3 games signifies progress. If there were any bright spots, anything at all, my preference would be to give it more time because staff changes are disruptive and usually add more time to get to where you want to be. Maybe you disagree with me or just aren't as far along in the recognition process as I am. That's fine. I won't be douching up every topic on the board demanding his removal. But yes, I've seen enough to know this dog won't hunt.
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I hear you, but keep in mind It's darkest before the dawn.

 
Mavric said:
Funny how you make sure to point out two teams that they blew out to try to discredit some of the wins but neglected to state that some of their losses were to eventual national champion Auburn in overtime, as well as two other Top 25 teams by five and three points and six their seven losses were by a total of 31 points.  That's not a great season but they played respectable.  Not to mention that the actual comparison to our performance this year would be the following year (third full season) when they went 10-4, won the conference and made a New Year's Six game.  Doesn't appear to be the track that we're on.

And there are always exceptions to the rule.  For each one example you can site, how many counter-examples do you want to see?  10?  20?  50?  Wouldn't be tough.
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With top 15 talent, he coached some good losses .  That's the point you feel I conveniently left out?   

 
LaunchCode said:
Swiney's first 3 seasons:

4-3

9-5

6-7 (including wins vs N. Texas and Presbyterian)

Following your satisfaction standards would have cost a National Championship.  Pretty steep price wouldn't you say.    

Swiney also inherited a team that had been bringing in top 15 classes prior to his arrival.  Compared to what MR walked into, shouldn't Swiney's record have been better than MR's?     
Click to expand...


Hiring and firing is all gut. There are all kinds of mistakes in hindsight. I'm, frankly, not interested in "random example to prove a point" because all sides could play that game until the end of time. Would anyone believe me if I told you early on that a coach like Bob Stoops would win only one national title, despite a very productive 18 years? Or that Dean Smith or Tom Osborne would win any titles? You just don't know for sure, so it's a pretty pointless exercise.

The best you can do is make an educated guess on if your guy is the right one. I've never felt Riley was the guy if your goal (as was stated) is to exceed that 9 win plateau and win titles. I simply did not, and do not, feel a guy with his track record suddenly becomes that coach. Others disagree, and still others didn't even have a clue who he was (and maybe they still don't). I feel that if your goal is to exceed 9 wins (not a trivial matter) then there is some element of risk. It may take several hirings to get it right. Going from a 9 win standard to 10 sounds like nothing, but each win takes more and more ability; it gets disproportionally harder and harder.

 
brophog said:
Hiring and firing is all gut. There are all kinds of mistakes in hindsight. I'm, frankly, not interested in "random example to prove a point" because all sides could play that game until the end of time. Would anyone believe me if I told you early on that a coach like Bob Stoops would win only one national title, despite a very productive 18 years? Or that Dean Smith or Tom Osborne would win any titles? You just don't know for sure, so it's a pretty pointless exercise.

The best you can do is make an educated guess on if your guy is the right one. I've never felt Riley was the guy if your goal (as was stated) is to exceed that 9 win plateau and win titles. I simply did not, and do not, feel a guy with his track record suddenly becomes that coach. Others disagree, and still others didn't even have a clue who he was (and maybe they still don't). I feel that if your goal is to exceed 9 wins (not a trivial matter) then there is some element of risk. It may take several hirings to get it right. Going from a 9 win standard to 10 sounds like nothing, but each win takes more and more ability; it gets disproportionally harder and harder.
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You bring good reason to discussion.  MR may or may not be that guy,  What we know is he's making changes/improvements as needed, works tirelessly, and is completely dedicated to seeing this program improve to conference championship level.  Staying the current course is our quickest path to getting over the hump.   But like you say it's a gamble.  Changing course sets us back another 3 or 4 years.

 
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LaunchCode said:
With top 15 talent, he coached some good losses .  That's the point you feel I conveniently left out?   
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4 losses within a touchdown in year 2, including FSU and national Champ Auburn. BCS bowl in year 3. If Riley could match that resume he would be fine. Hell if he can finagle his way to 7+ wins he will be fine. 

 
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