Two Nebraska players enter NCAA Transfer Portal

[RedSavage]

Let's not go there again.  They put themselves in this situation and their stories were not the same.

Sorry, sarcasm.  This should be ample evidence to put that argument to rest unless something different is found/decided at their trial.  

 

[gobiggergoredder]

But how can we be sure they’re guilty?

Simple....a trial.

 

[Red Five]

Can we get all the Title IX and legal stuff in the Hunt and Legrone thread and keep this one for transfers?

 

[krc1995]

Cool! 

 

[knapplc]

Tami Strickman seems more than qualified. Probably should have just looked that up before assuming.  In the link it states: 

"The Conduct Officer and Conduct Board can hear any allegations of any other violations of the Student Code of Conduct in addition to allegations of sexual misconduct that are directly related to the alleged sexual misconduct."

Not sure who the conduct officer would be but the conduct board looks to be made of faculty and students from what I can see.  The kangaroo court line I think came off harsher than I meant but I couldn't think of the right term. I'm sure this all varies school to school by a lot also.  I couldn't get through all of it to see who the burden of proof lays upon in this instance either. Since these types of cases are hard to prove for any party the burden of proof puts that party at a big disadvantage right away. 

I am quite certain it is a case-by-case basis. The "measuring stick" is probably something nebulous like "what a reasonable person would believe" but I have no way of knowing that without talking to an actual factual Title IX investigator.

I do not envy people who have to make decisions in cases like this. There were three people in that room and three different (albeit similar) stories.  Being charged with making a decision in those situations is not an enviable thing.

I hope they pay the Title IX people well. Because no matter what they say, someone will be unhappy. Perhaps hurt. Perhaps hurt for life.

It's a necessary job. But it's a s#!t job all the same.

 

[knapplc]

Cool! 

"Cool" is not the word I would use.

At best we can hope for justice.

But the reality is, if they raped the girl, no court decision will make her whole.

And if they thought it was consensual but it was not, she's never going to be whole and they likely never will be, either.

And if it was consensual and she's lying, they will never be whole (and really she won't be, either).

There are just never any winners in a situation like this. 

It's all degrees of loss. Likely for the rest of their lives.

 

[krc1995]

"Cool" is not the word I would use.

At best we can hope for justice.

But the reality is, if they raped the girl, no court decision will make her whole.

And if they thought it was consensual but it was not, she's never going to be whole and they likely never will be, either.

And if it was consensual and she's lying, they will never be whole (and really she won't be, either).

There are just never any winners in a situation like this. 

It's all degrees of loss. Likely for the rest of their lives.

You didn’t use it-I did. 

 

[knapplc]

You didn’t use it-I did. 

But should that be a word we use in this situation?

Because if it was rape, that isn't cool, and never will be for anyone involved.

And if it wasn't rape, that isn't cool and never will be for anyone involved.

 

[PoloWearingBeaver]

Interesting that charges are only filed after ESPN breaks the story 4 months later, strange that none of the local media pushed it 

 

[HuskerInLostWages]

Who'd have thought the portal leads to county lockup.  Thinking these two were hoping to use a different portal.

 

[Wistrom Disciple]

Interesting that charges are only filed after ESPN breaks the story 4 months later, strange that none of the local media pushed it 

Could have been intentional, the ESPN writer (Paula Lavigne) has a strong focus on sexual assault on college campuses as one of the topics in her wheelhouse. I'd be surprised if local media had access to the comprehensive story versus maybe just whispers/rumors. Local media would put themselves in a tough spot if they report or misrepresent a part of the story without being fully informed.

Local writer could hurt future access to program, players & coaches if erroneous or excessive in reporting details. Similar to why trade rumors, coach firings, etc. are often publicized by national outlets ("Woj bomb" in the NBA, Schefter with NFL) before they are published by local beat reporters. 

 

[Ulty]

I do specifically remember there was a change under the previous Presidential administration that in good faith is trying to help out assault victims, but inadvertently created a sort of kangaroo court on campuses to determine these types of cases. These investigations are presided over by a faculty member that could have no formal training in this sort of situation

I couldn't get through all of it to see who the burden of proof lays upon in this instance either. Since these types of cases are hard to prove for any party the burden of proof puts that party at a big disadvantage right away. 

am quite certain it is a case-by-case basis. The "measuring stick" is probably something nebulous like "what a reasonable person would believe" but I have no way of knowing that without talking to an actual factual Title IX investigator.

I do not envy people who have to make decisions in cases like this. There were three people in that room and three different (albeit similar) stories.  Being charged with making a decision in those situations is not an enviable thing.

It's hard to speak for every school, since everyone will have their own Title IX policies, but since these things are governed by (ever-changing) federal guidelines and schools often consult with each other to craft their policies, I can imagine it is similar at most institutions, so here are some loose answers to some of these questions (I work on Title IX cases, but not at Nebraska)... that being, the burden of proof does not fall on the complainant (accuser) or the respondent (accused) - the burden of proof lies with the institution itself to conduct a reasonably thorough investigation. The liability is with the school.

He said/she said cases are common. The norm, actually, in sexual assault cases. So the investigators and hearing officers have to consider various circumstances and contextual clues when witnesses aren't available, but it often comes down to weighing credibility between the accused and the accuser. It is not easy to do. Even though the standard of proof is "the preponderance of the evidence," that is still a difficult threshold to reach when you are looking for actual evidence. Knapplc is correct, often we have to look at these issues using a "reasonable person" standard.

At the end of these investigations, someone is always upset (sometimes both parties!), and either side can request an appeal, but the appeal must be based on a procedural error or new evidence that wasn't previously known. You can't request an appeal just because you disagree with the finding, even though people often try.

The suggestion that hearing panels are some sort of "kangaroo court" is an irresponsible claim. First of all, at colleges and universities, these are conduct hearings, an administrative function, not a courtroom (as much as Betsy DeVos and the current DOE would like it to be). Not every institution uses hearing panels or councils made up of faculty or students, but some do. Others use actual full time professionals in the field to make the decisions in the hearings (but not the same person who conducted the investigation). Anyone who is involved in any such investigations, hearings, or decision-making must undergo annual training specific to Title IX issues.

Now, please take my explanations with a little grain of salt. I do not work for UNL and I can't speak to specific nuances of their policies and procedures as they may differ from other schools. However, Title IX is such a big issue right now, every school in the country is aware of what happened at Baylor, Michigan State, Ohio State, etc. A school the size of UNL, especially when the spotlight shines so brightly upon the football program, is not going to be haphazard when it comes to a case like this.

 

[krc1995]

But should that be a word we use in this situation?

Because if it was rape, that isn't cool, and never will be for anyone involved.

And if it wasn't rape, that isn't cool and never will be for anyone involved.

Cool because I get to see the process unfold like the student manual mandates. The one you posted. I didn’t have anything to do with this event, but I will watch it develop. 

 

[BigRedBuster]

Can we get all the Title IX and legal stuff in the Hunt and Legrone thread and keep this one for transfers?

Well....the thread was specifically created about these two players. 

 

[knapplc]

Cool because I get to see the process unfold like the student manual mandates. The one you posted. I didn’t have anything to do with this event, but I will watch it develop.