United Airlines PR Disaster

[Ratt Mhule]

There are basically two people that are posting in this thread that are being honest. The rest are being what I like to call "Message Board Honest"

Do explain further ...

Basically saying anyone who says they would not get off the plane is FOS. So saying myself and some others are full of it.

Let me give you a scenario that might actually happen in my life. My girlfriend is from Colorado and wants to possibly move back someday. If we were to move to Denver and my dad who is 83 years old ends up in the hospital and is close to passing away, you think Im getting off that plane without another plane being available immediately? Youre f'ing nuts. Like I said above, it all depends on the individual scenario. If I have time to spare I would gladly take the voucher.

 

[teachercd]

There are basically two people that are posting in this thread that are being honest. The rest are being what I like to call "Message Board Honest"

Do explain further ...

Basically saying anyone who says they would not get off the plane is FOS. So saying myself and some others are full of it.

Let me give you a scenario that might actually happen in my life. My girlfriend is from Colorado and wants to possibly move back someday. If we were to move to Denver and my dad who is 83 years old ends up in the hospital and is close to passing away, you think Im getting off that plane without another plane being available immediately? Youre f'ing nuts. Like I said above, it all depends on the individual scenario. If I have time to spare I would gladly take the voucher.

Yeah, you are getting off. You already know the end result. So you would get off and find plans that would work instead of using a method that you know has zero chance of working. Because you are resonalbe and intelligent.

 

[JJ Husker]

Airlines should be forced to give inconvenienced customers cash, not vouchers. Those vouchers cost them a fraction of the face value. The hit they take for incompetence is negligible with vouchers, but with cash it's the actual value, period.

I think that is how it officially is. The airlines just start out low balling you with vouchers. I thought somebody earlier in this thread posted a link that states they have to give you cash compensation if they bump you. Something like 200% of your one way fare if delayed 2 hours and 400% if delayed 4 hours or more. Nothing if delayed only 1 hour. Sumthin like that, think the link is on page 1 or 2...

 

[JJ Husker]

Here it is...

Here is an article that I found stating that you can demand cash and what amounts the DOT require http://www.cntraveler.com/stories/2014-09-04/bumped-due-to-overbooking-airlines-owe-you-money-not-vouchers when bumped.

Another good link for your rights-

https://www.transportation.gov/airconsumer/fly-rights

I didn't notice anywhere that a traveler has the right to refuse getting off the aircraft when requested.

 

[Nebfanatic]

I just was listening in on an investors meeting with people heavily invested in United. They said United was completely in the wrong. They said no where in Uniteds policy does it state they can remove a passager once they have boarded. They can only refuse a passenger as they are boarding. Also before removal from the plane they should have given the Dr. A piece of paper describing his rights, something they did not do. If you want to continue to blame the Dr. go ahead but know even United knows they were the ones in the wrong.

Another way to put it. United had no right to remove him from the plane therefore he was completely within his rights to refuse.

 

[knapplc]

That plane is private property, just like a restaurant, so there's no way a person can stay when the owner of that property asks them to leave. "We reserve the right to refuse service to anyone" is a pretty common notice, right along with "No shirt, no shoes, no service."

United wasn't in the wrong in that they asked him to leave. They were in the wrong for the decisions that led up to asking him to leave.

 

[Nebfanatic]

But there has to be a point where you have to give notice. They let him on the plane therefore at that point they promised him the plane ride from what I understand. This is coming from these investors I mean they spent the whole lunch talking about it so they appeared to have a pretty large interest. They said United has no legal leg to stand on which would suggest they are "in the wrong"

I would think anyway because if they were within their rights to remove him from the plane they would have a fairly strong defense just based on that.

 

[JJ Husker]

But there has to be a point where you have to give notice. They let him on the plane therefore at that point they promised him the plane ride from what I understand. This is coming from these investors I mean they spent the whole lunch talking about it so they appeared to have a pretty large interest. They said United has no legal leg to stand on which would suggest they are "in the wrong"

I would think anyway because if they were within their rights to remove him from the plane they would have a fairly strong defense just based on that.

From what I've gleaned so far, they only have to give written notice to people involuntarily bumped on certain larger aircraft (which might cover this situation-not sure how big this plane was). They do not have to provide written notice for other circumstances; smaller planes of 60 seats or less, volunteers, weight issues, safety concerns, flights cancelled, mechanical issues, etc.

However, my gut tells me that knapp is right. That plane is their private property and if they order you off, and you refuse to leave, I would think you then become a trespasser on their property and they could have you removed with force if need be. I suppose it's possible that failure to provide the written notice by some stipulated point in time, prior to such removal, might place United in an illegal situation but I just can't imagine that's the case considering it is their plane. I doubt the legal facet matters much at this point in time. He'll likely be paid handsomely even if United was within their legal rights, more if they weren't.

 

[Redux]

That plane is private property, just like a restaurant, so there's no way a person can stay when the owner of that property asks them to leave. "We reserve the right to refuse service to anyone" is a pretty common notice, right along with "No shirt, no shoes, no service."United wasn't in the wrong in that they asked him to leave. They were in the wrong for the decisions that led up to asking him to leave.

This throws so many wrenches in so many arguments though.

 

[Mierin]

That plane is private property, just like a restaurant, so there's no way a person can stay when the owner of that property asks them to leave. "We reserve the right to refuse service to anyone" is a pretty common notice, right along with "No shirt, no shoes, no service."United wasn't in the wrong in that they asked him to leave. They were in the wrong for the decisions that led up to asking him to leave.

This throws so many wrenches in so many arguments though.

List them.

 

[Redux]

That plane is private property, just like a restaurant, so there's no way a person can stay when the owner of that property asks them to leave. "We reserve the right to refuse service to anyone" is a pretty common notice, right along with "No shirt, no shoes, no service."United wasn't in the wrong in that they asked him to leave. They were in the wrong for the decisions that led up to asking him to leave.

This throws so many wrenches in so many arguments though.

List them.

No, you were rude to me and hurt my feelings.

 

[Mierin]

That plane is private property, just like a restaurant, so there's no way a person can stay when the owner of that property asks them to leave. "We reserve the right to refuse service to anyone" is a pretty common notice, right along with "No shirt, no shoes, no service."United wasn't in the wrong in that they asked him to leave. They were in the wrong for the decisions that led up to asking him to leave.

This throws so many wrenches in so many arguments though.

List them.

No, you were rude to me and hurt my feelings.

That doesn't sound like me.

 

[NUance]

That plane is private property, just like a restaurant, so there's no way a person can stay when the owner of that property asks them to leave. "We reserve the right to refuse service to anyone" is a pretty common notice, right along with "No shirt, no shoes, no service."

United wasn't in the wrong in that they asked him to leave. They were in the wrong for the decisions that led up to asking him to leave.

Private property, yes. But there's a little more to it than a restaurant/patron relationship. It all comes down to what the contract says. And I suspect you're correct when you say that United was in the right, given that they wrote the terms of the contract for the ticket. But they handled it in an extremely insensitive manner. In the end it'll probably cost them 100X more than if they'd just handed out a few hundred more $$ to entice some passenger to willingly leave the plane. Maybe 1000X. And then they'll just pass it on to us, their future flight ticket customers.

 

[Nebfanatic]

It's my understanding the contract did NOT give them the right to remove anyone once they boarded the plane, at least that language doesn't exist within the contract, whereas refusal prior to boarding is included. Just what I heard from people discussing United divestment strategy.

Now I don't know these people personally so I can't vouch for their credibility. Also I can see the language not being written to actually remove someone after they have boarded the plane, but that sounds like legal grey area to me that their lawyers could likely be able to jib jab their way out of.

 

[4skers89]

But there has to be a point where you have to give notice. They let him on the plane therefore at that point they promised him the plane ride from what I understand. This is coming from these investors I mean they spent the whole lunch talking about it so they appeared to have a pretty large interest. They said United has no legal leg to stand on which would suggest they are "in the wrong"

I would think anyway because if they were within their rights to remove him from the plane they would have a fairly strong defense just based on that.

From what I've gleaned so far, they only have to give written notice to people involuntarily bumped on certain larger aircraft (which might cover this situation-not sure how big this plane was). They do not have to provide written notice for other circumstances; smaller planes of 60 seats or less, volunteers, weight issues, safety concerns, flights cancelled, mechanical issues, etc.

However, my gut tells me that knapp is right. That plane is their private property and if they order you off, and you refuse to leave, I would think you then become a trespasser on their property and they could have you removed with force if need be. I suppose it's possible that failure to provide the written notice by some stipulated point in time, prior to such removal, might place United in an illegal situation but I just can't imagine that's the case considering it is their plane. I doubt the legal facet matters much at this point in time. He'll likely be paid handsomely even if United was within their legal rights, more if they weren't.

I can't imagine how it would be trespassing. Dr. Dao was invited on the plane and followed normal boarding procedure. He wasn't breaking any laws or posing a security threat once he boarded. I can't see anything criminal about what he did. In his position, if I was allowed to stay on the flight the only worry I'd have is being sued by United in what I view as a civil matter. I wouldn't be too concerned though since United would have to show that they were unable to get their crew to Louisville and lost revenue somehow. It's absurd that an airline can't figure out an alternate means to transport their crew which most passengers on the flight probably thought when the announcement was made that they were bumping passengers for their employees. That is my laymen take on the situation but I've been surprised by the law before. I've learned first hand that if someone steals from you that person won't necessarily be arrested. The police can dismiss it as a civil matter and your only recourse is a lawsuit. As others have said, what I've read, there is nothing in United's carriage contract that cover bumping passengers that have already boarded. There's probably a good reason why there isn't something in the contract that covers such cases and I doubt it will be added. If this goes to trial it will be interesting to find out if United has an internal policy and train their attendants to handle situations like this, the way they did. I have no doubt United will continue to bump passengers if necessary to move their flight crews around. You won't know that they are doing it since they'll do it before boarding the plane and not announce it. At least they won't be dragging people off the plane bloodied and bruised. Hooray for that.

Here's a Delta passenger that didn't wait to check in on boarding, was dragged off the plane but trespassing isn't what she plead guilty to.

http://www.wxyz.com/news/region/washtenaw-county/woman-dragged-off-delta-flight-at-metro-airport-is-assistant-professor-at-university-of-michigan

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/woman-dragged-off-delta-flight_us_585193fde4b0e411bfd4f928

http://www.aviationpros.com/news/12324877/brief-woman-dragged-off-delta-flight-in-detroit-pleads-guilty-to-misdemeanor

If the woman was given the opportunity to exit and re-board properly but refused, I don't have a problem with her getting dragged off since it's not obvious what else the airline could do.

Before volunteering be sure to understand what you are getting. If you agree to $800 and get 16 $50 vouchers that expire in a year but you're an infrequent traveler for personal reasons, then you probably aren't getting good value. If you try to negotiate and ask for cash it sounds unlikely to be accepted. I'd prefer to get bumped so I could demand cash and a full ticket refund (and fly a different airline).