United Airlines PR Disaster

[knapplc]

So you're saying you immediately complied when I sent you PM's?

 

[Apathy]

So you're saying you immediately complied when I sent you PM's?

I'm pretty sure I complied and took my punishment did I not? I also remember informing you how the rules weren't enforced fairly because other members posted the exact same crap that I got in trouble for and nothing was done to those members

 

[JJ Husker]

So when it's closing time, and the bouncer says it's time to go, if you dilly dally you are asking to be assaulted?

"Dilly dally" might not be the proper term for the analogy. I think it was more like, "I'm not leaving this bar, if you want me to leave you'll have to throw me out". Does anybody wonder what is going to happen here?

I think the disconnect between the two arguments is pretty simple. There is the way things should be and the reality of the way things are.

The way things should be:

Airlines should not overbook flights.

Airlines should not bump paying customers.

Airlines should not bump any customer in favor of their own employees.

Airlines should keep offering higher compensation until they get volunteers.

Airlines need to be responsible for the number of passengers and total weight onboard.

A contract of carriage is necessary for the airline to operate.

No persons time should be valued more than another's.

All people are equal-a doctor is no more important than an unemployed housewife travelling for pleasure.

Nobody should suffer physical harm, ever.

Anyplace that sells ice cream should make hot fudge sundaes free on Fridays.

The way things are (aka reality)

Airlines over book flights.

Airlines bump customers.

Some airlines give priority to their own employees.

Some airlines set a limit on what they'll offer as compensation. (Maybe not anymore because of this)

Some airlines may choose to enforce the contract of carriage and remove passengers against their will.

People, especially those who do not comply with lawful orders, may require physical handling if they do not comply.

Some people who choose the physical handling route may end up getting hurt.

Hot fudge sundaes are rarely given away for free.

I think some involved in this discussion think they live in a world only controlled by the way things should be. And some of those are failing to realize that a doctor's time is no more important than anybody else's. IMO, there is a fair amount of failure to acknowledge the way things are (aka reality) in this thread. Newsflash, we live in an imperfect world.

Maybe everyone should try the "should" approach next time a police officer wants to pull you over for a traffic violation. You don't have time to comply with those lights and siren, just keep going, you shouldn't have to comply. See how it works out for ya. When you get done you can rent Lala Land and feel right at home.

*BTW, this is not all directed at you NM. It just ended up in my response to you*

 

[Apathy]

So when it's closing time, and the bouncer says it's time to go, if you dilly dally you are asking to be assaulted?

"Dilly dally" might not be the proper term for the analogy. I think it was more like, "I'm not leaving this bar, if you want me to leave you'll have to throw me out". Does anybody wonder what is going to happen here?
I think the disconnect between the two arguments is pretty simple. There is the way things should be and the reality of the way things are.

The way things should be:

Airlines should not overbook flights.

Airlines should not bump paying customers.

Airlines should not bump any customer in favor of their own employees.

Airlines should keep offering higher compensation until they get volunteers.

Airlines need to be responsible for the number of passengers and total weight onboard.

A contract of carriage is necessary for the airline to operate.

No persons time should be valued more than another's.

All people are equal-a doctor is no more important than an unemployed housewife travelling for pleasure.

Nobody should suffer physical harm, ever.

Anyplace that sells ice cream should make hot fudge sundaes free on Fridays.

The way things are (aka reality)

Airlines over book flights.

Airlines bump customers.

Some airlines give priority to their own employees.

Some airlines set a limit on what they'll offer as compensation. (Maybe not anymore because of this)

Some airlines may choose to enforce the contract of carriage and remove passengers against their will.

People, especially those who do not comply with lawful orders, may require physical handling if they do not comply.

Some people who choose the physical handling route may end up getting hurt.

Hot fudge sundaes are rarely given away for free.

I think some involved in this discussion think they live in a world only controlled by the way things should be. And some of those are failing to realize that a doctor's time is no more important than anybody else's. IMO, there is a fair amount of failure to acknowledge the way things are (aka reality) in this thread. Newsflash, we live in an imperfect world.

Maybe everyone should try the "should" approach next time a police officer wants to pull you over for a traffic violation. You don't have time to comply with those lights and siren, just keep going, you shouldn't have to comply. See how it works out for ya. When you get done you can rent Lala Land and feel right at home.

*BTW, this is not all directed at you NM. It just ended up in my response to you*

Great post

 

[JJ Husker]

So you're saying you immediately complied when I sent you PM's?

Are we really trying to make an equivalency between usage of a message board and a legal document of a contract of carriage? Because if we are, I'm curious how the numerous people that have been banned feel about it. I thought this message board reserved the right remove posters who didn't comply with the rules. Are you saying HB doesn't have the right to remove posters? I'm confused.

 

[knapplc]

Doctors aren't more important than an unemployed housewife until you need that doctor to fix your child.

Let's not lie to ourselves. If that was your doctor and your wife or child was sick, you'd be livid if he was held up because some dumbass airline kicked him off the plane due to their inefficiency.

 

[knapplc]

So you're saying you immediately complied when I sent you PM's?

Are we really trying to make an equivalency between usage of a message board and a legal document of a contract of carriage? Because if we are, I'm curious how the numerous people that have been banned feel about it. I thought this message board reserved the right remove posters who didn't comply with the rules. Are you saying HB doesn't have the right to remove posters? I'm confused.

You are confused because you're making too much of a loose analogy. Relax and stop looking for the perfectly analogous situation.

 

[Landlord]

So you're saying you immediately complied when I sent you PM's?

Are we really trying to make an equivalency between usage of a message board and a legal document of a contract of carriage? Because if we are, I'm curious how the numerous people that have been banned feel about it. I thought this message board reserved the right remove posters who didn't comply with the rules. Are you saying HB doesn't have the right to remove posters? I'm confused.

He's referencing Dewiz' claims of always being a good boy scout

I listen to authority and I respect said authority. People nowadays have little to no respect to authority and think that they are entitled to everything and anything. Listen, follow the rules/laws, respect authority and there won't be any problems.

 

[knapplc]

So you're saying you immediately complied when I sent you PM's?

I'm pretty sure I complied and took my punishment did I not? I also remember informing you how the rules weren't enforced fairly because other members posted the exact same crap that I got in trouble for and nothing was done to those members

So you didn't immediately comply. That's all I wanted you to remember.

It's not a great analogy, I admit. But let's stop pretending that authority should always immediately be obeyed. That isn't what makes America great, is it?

 

[Apathy]

So you're saying you immediately complied when I sent you PM's?

Are we really trying to make an equivalency between usage of a message board and a legal document of a contract of carriage? Because if we are, I'm curious how the numerous people that have been banned feel about it. I thought this message board reserved the right remove posters who didn't comply with the rules. Are you saying HB doesn't have the right to remove posters? I'm confused.

He's referencing Dewiz' claims of always being a good boy scout

I listen to authority and I respect said authority. People nowadays have little to no respect to authority and think that they are entitled to everything and anything. Listen, follow the rules/laws, respect authority and there won't be any problems.

Are you trying to insult me by calling me a Boy Scout?

 

[Apathy]

So you're saying you immediately complied when I sent you PM's?

I'm pretty sure I complied and took my punishment did I not? I also remember informing you how the rules weren't enforced fairly because other members posted the exact same crap that I got in trouble for and nothing was done to those members

So you didn't immediately comply. That's all I wanted you to remember.

I never said that but thanks for putting words in my mouth

 

[Mierin]

So when it's closing time, and the bouncer says it's time to go, if you dilly dally you are asking to be assaulted?

"Dilly dally" might not be the proper term for the analogy. I think it was more like, "I'm not leaving this bar, if you want me to leave you'll have to throw me out". Does anybody wonder what is going to happen here?
I think the disconnect between the two arguments is pretty simple. There is the way things should be and the reality of the way things are.

The way things should be:

Airlines should not overbook flights.

Airlines should not bump paying customers.

Airlines should not bump any customer in favor of their own employees.

Airlines should keep offering higher compensation until they get volunteers.

Airlines need to be responsible for the number of passengers and total weight onboard.

A contract of carriage is necessary for the airline to operate.

No persons time should be valued more than another's.

All people are equal-a doctor is no more important than an unemployed housewife travelling for pleasure.

Nobody should suffer physical harm, ever.

Anyplace that sells ice cream should make hot fudge sundaes free on Fridays.

The way things are (aka reality)

Airlines over book flights.

Airlines bump customers.

Some airlines give priority to their own employees.

Some airlines set a limit on what they'll offer as compensation. (Maybe not anymore because of this)

Some airlines may choose to enforce the contract of carriage and remove passengers against their will.

People, especially those who do not comply with lawful orders, may require physical handling if they do not comply.

Some people who choose the physical handling route may end up getting hurt.

Hot fudge sundaes are rarely given away for free.

I think some involved in this discussion think they live in a world only controlled by the way things should be. And some of those are failing to realize that a doctor's time is no more important than anybody else's. IMO, there is a fair amount of failure to acknowledge the way things are (aka reality) in this thread. Newsflash, we live in an imperfect world.

Maybe everyone should try the "should" approach next time a police officer wants to pull you over for a traffic violation. You don't have time to comply with those lights and siren, just keep going, you shouldn't have to comply. See how it works out for ya. When you get done you can rent Lala Land and feel right at home.

*BTW, this is not all directed at you NM. It just ended up in my response to you*

You just asked knapp about comparing this to message board politics, so I'm asking you the same thing about the traffic stop. How is that a good comparison?
If a police officer wrongly pulls me over, I might get a warning or a ticket and be 10 minutes late. It's very unlikely I'll completely miss several meetings and possibly lose clients or my job. I also won't have to go through the hassel of spending the night in a hotel I don't want to be in and 3 hours in someone else's garage waiting for my next car ride.

The amount of inconvenience someone has to put up with when they comply is important here.

I'm not a Dr. and don't have meetings with clients every day and I have plenty of PTO left, so I would have taken the $. But that doesn't mean he should have. Nor does it mean anyone on the plane should've been asked to leave once they had boarded.

What if he had been flying to his mom's funeral and missing this flight meant he couldn't go?

 

[Ratt Mhule]

Anyone who says a doctor is not more important than say, a fast food employee is freakin nuts. Thats just the way society is. People get paid more because their job is more important.

 

[JJ Husker]

I also want to add I find it funny how many times I've heard since this broke "why does being a Dr make him more important."

A Dr who has meetings with patients the next day IS more important than a lot of people. Above him I would put people attending weddings/funerals, people who went to the trouble of herding kids onto a plane, and tied I would put anyone else who might get fired if they're a day late.

Bull & Sh1t.

There is no hierarchy. A doctor is no more important than a drunk from skid row. I don't care what meetings or patients or anything else. If he's that damn important then he has no business leaving wherever it is he is that important and he sure as hell shouldn't be flying commercial.

 

[JJ Husker]

Anyone who says a doctor is not more important than say, a fast food employee is freakin nuts. Thats just the way society is. People get paid more because their job is more important.

So, I'm more important than you? I might like it in your twisted world.