Vince Young better than Tommie Fraizer???

[rkhufu7]

Absolutely not. Young had one good year, in a year where competition in the the conference and overall wasn't that great. Tommie won two national titles and three MVP's all in a conference that at the time was the best in the country and in bowl games overall faced stiffer competition.

2003 - Texas went 10-3 and lost the Holiday Bowl 28-20 to a bad Washington State team that got throttled by USC 43-16 and lost to a 6-6 Washington team and a 5-7 Notre Dame team that was pathetic.

The conference was horrible that season as well. The conference went 1-6 in the bowl season, Kansas was blown out of the Tangerine Bowl by a mediocre N. C. State team 56-26, by and the ONLY team to actually win a bowl game that year was Nebraska and we went 10-3 and fired our coach it was so bad.

2004 - Texas won the Rose Bowl 38-37 against Michigan.

Conference was mediocre at best this year too, It appears to be a respectable 4-3 overall showing until you actually look and see that besides the one point Texas win, two of the other wins for the conference were Colorado's 33-28 squeaker over mighty UTEP and Iowa State's 17-13 win over the Juggernaut that is Miami... of Ohio.

2005 - Texas won a National Championship in the Rose Bowl against USC, however they did so by winning a conference that was good up top but extremely low on depth and went 5-3 in the bowls. And four of those wins were by 7 points or less, 3 of them (and one loss) were all won by a field goal.

They did beat the so called "greatest team of all time" in USC, so they get props for that one. Even if that greatest team of all time needed a miracle to beat a so-so Notre Dame team.

Compare that to Frazier's career and it isn't even close.

Now people can point to the Big 8 as being not that strong as well, mainly because the bottom teams were pitiful.. but the top was loaded and pretty much any team that made a bowl game from the Big 8 in the years Frazier played not only won but did so convincingly. There were two bowl losses for the Big 8 conference between 1993-1995, one was the 1994 Orange Bowl that NU lost to Florida State for the National Title, the other was a 7-12 KSU loss to Boston College in 1994.

The victories for those years? (remember there were FAR fewer bowls before the BCS)

1993

Oklahoma beat Texas Tech 41-10 (Sun)

Colorado beat Fresno State 41-30 (Aloha)

Kansas State beat Wyoming 52-17 (Copper)

1994

Nebraska beat Miami 24-17 (Orange - National Title)

Colorado beat Notre Dame 41-24 (Fiesta)

1995

Nebraska beat Florida 62-24 (Fiesta - National Title)

Colorado beat Oregon 38-6 (Orange)

KSU beat Colorado State 54-21 (Holiday)

Kansas beat UCLA 51-30 (Aloha)

And I didn't even count Frazier's freshman year where he won Big 8 Freshman of the year, and took his team to a 9-3 record and #11 in the country because it's simply too unfair to Young who redshirted as a freshman.

In fact based on this, Young probably isn't even 2nd. I'd put Frazier AND Tebow ahead of him *based on the strength of the SEC*. Young was slightly better than Pat White with more help. Frazier was the best player on the best team in a dominant conference playing MUCH tougher overall competition in the bowl games.

95 Big 8 had 4 teams that finished in the top 10!

 

[husker B-rent]

Absolutely not. Young had one good year, in a year where competition in the the conference and overall wasn't that great. Tommie won two national titles and three MVP's all in a conference that at the time was the best in the country and in bowl games overall faced stiffer competition.

2003 - Texas went 10-3 and lost the Holiday Bowl 28-20 to a bad Washington State team that got throttled by USC 43-16 and lost to a 6-6 Washington team and a 5-7 Notre Dame team that was pathetic.

The conference was horrible that season as well. The conference went 1-6 in the bowl season, Kansas was blown out of the Tangerine Bowl by a mediocre N. C. State team 56-26, by and the ONLY team to actually win a bowl game that year was Nebraska and we went 10-3 and fired our coach it was so bad.

2004 - Texas won the Rose Bowl 38-37 against Michigan.

Conference was mediocre at best this year too, It appears to be a respectable 4-3 overall showing until you actually look and see that besides the one point Texas win, two of the other wins for the conference were Colorado's 33-28 squeaker over mighty UTEP and Iowa State's 17-13 win over the Juggernaut that is Miami... of Ohio.

2005 - Texas won a National Championship in the Rose Bowl against USC, however they did so by winning a conference that was good up top but extremely low on depth and went 5-3 in the bowls. And four of those wins were by 7 points or less, 3 of them (and one loss) were all won by a field goal.

They did beat the so called "greatest team of all time" in USC, so they get props for that one. Even if that greatest team of all time needed a miracle to beat a so-so Notre Dame team.

Compare that to Frazier's career and it isn't even close.

Now people can point to the Big 8 as being not that strong as well, mainly because the bottom teams were pitiful.. but the top was loaded and pretty much any team that made a bowl game from the Big 8 in the years Frazier played not only won but did so convincingly. There were two bowl losses for the Big 8 conference between 1993-1995, one was the 1994 Orange Bowl that NU lost to Florida State for the National Title, the other was a 7-12 KSU loss to Boston College in 1994.

The victories for those years? (remember there were FAR fewer bowls before the BCS)

1993

Oklahoma beat Texas Tech 41-10 (Sun)

Colorado beat Fresno State 41-30 (Aloha)

Kansas State beat Wyoming 52-17 (Copper)

1994

Nebraska beat Miami 24-17 (Orange - National Title)

Colorado beat Notre Dame 41-24 (Fiesta)

1995

Nebraska beat Florida 62-24 (Fiesta - National Title)

Colorado beat Oregon 38-6 (Orange)

KSU beat Colorado State 54-21 (Holiday)

Kansas beat UCLA 51-30 (Aloha)

And I didn't even count Frazier's freshman year where he won Big 8 Freshman of the year, and took his team to a 9-3 record and #11 in the country because it's simply too unfair to Young who redshirted as a freshman.

In fact based on this, Young probably isn't even 2nd. I'd put Frazier AND Tebow ahead of him *based on the strength of the SEC*. Young was slightly better than Pat White with more help. Frazier was the best player on the best team in a dominant conference playing MUCH tougher overall competition in the bowl games.

95 Big 8 had 4 teams that finished in the top 10!

mmmm hmmm, these guys are talking about the it factor yet they overlook the overall team success which is directly related to the prowess of the qb.

Senior stats (Heisman Trophy runner-up): 98-177 (55.4%), 1,467 yards, 18 TD, 6 INT

113 carries, 803 yards (7.1 ypc), 16 TD

Passing: 250-509 (49.1%), 4,003 yards, 47 TD, 18 INT

above i have his senior year statistics and below that i have his all time passing statistics.

for the guy talking about being at 49.1% in 4 years of passing the football, it is important to not that we ran the option, not the WCO or the spread any qb will have trouble getting into a rythm when we are running 2/3 of the time. tommie only threw 509 passes during his entire college career meaning on average he only threw 14 passes per game which means you have much more percentage movement in each pass. today passers average around 30- sometimes even 50 passes per game so after the first year of playing these guys have or are close to meeting his alltime passes number.

I have personally seen TF throw in person and i promise you he could throw a very nice football. maybe not perfect but it had a nice catchable touch to it and plenty of velocity.

 

[Chef K]

If you're taking that into account, then you have to take NFL success into account also

Just a little sarcasm. And to allude to the fact that according to Wonderlic, Young couldn't count his nuts and get the same number twice.

 

[Apathy]

Absolutely not. Young had one good year, in a year where competition in the the conference and overall wasn't that great. Tommie won two national titles and three MVP's all in a conference that at the time was the best in the country and in bowl games overall faced stiffer competition.

2003 - Texas went 10-3 and lost the Holiday Bowl 28-20 to a bad Washington State team that got throttled by USC 43-16 and lost to a 6-6 Washington team and a 5-7 Notre Dame team that was pathetic.

The conference was horrible that season as well. The conference went 1-6 in the bowl season, Kansas was blown out of the Tangerine Bowl by a mediocre N. C. State team 56-26, by and the ONLY team to actually win a bowl game that year was Nebraska and we went 10-3 and fired our coach it was so bad.

2004 - Texas won the Rose Bowl 38-37 against Michigan.

Conference was mediocre at best this year too, It appears to be a respectable 4-3 overall showing until you actually look and see that besides the one point Texas win, two of the other wins for the conference were Colorado's 33-28 squeaker over mighty UTEP and Iowa State's 17-13 win over the Juggernaut that is Miami... of Ohio.

2005 - Texas won a National Championship in the Rose Bowl against USC, however they did so by winning a conference that was good up top but extremely low on depth and went 5-3 in the bowls. And four of those wins were by 7 points or less, 3 of them (and one loss) were all won by a field goal.

They did beat the so called "greatest team of all time" in USC, so they get props for that one. Even if that greatest team of all time needed a miracle to beat a so-so Notre Dame team.

Compare that to Frazier's career and it isn't even close.

Now people can point to the Big 8 as being not that strong as well, mainly because the bottom teams were pitiful.. but the top was loaded and pretty much any team that made a bowl game from the Big 8 in the years Frazier played not only won but did so convincingly. There were two bowl losses for the Big 8 conference between 1993-1995, one was the 1994 Orange Bowl that NU lost to Florida State for the National Title, the other was a 7-12 KSU loss to Boston College in 1994.

The victories for those years? (remember there were FAR fewer bowls before the BCS)

1993

Oklahoma beat Texas Tech 41-10 (Sun)

Colorado beat Fresno State 41-30 (Aloha)

Kansas State beat Wyoming 52-17 (Copper)

1994

Nebraska beat Miami 24-17 (Orange - National Title)

Colorado beat Notre Dame 41-24 (Fiesta)

1995

Nebraska beat Florida 62-24 (Fiesta - National Title)

Colorado beat Oregon 38-6 (Orange)

KSU beat Colorado State 54-21 (Holiday)

Kansas beat UCLA 51-30 (Aloha)

And I didn't even count Frazier's freshman year where he won Big 8 Freshman of the year, and took his team to a 9-3 record and #11 in the country because it's simply too unfair to Young who redshirted as a freshman.

In fact based on this, Young probably isn't even 2nd. I'd put Frazier AND Tebow ahead of him *based on the strength of the SEC*. Young was slightly better than Pat White with more help. Frazier was the best player on the best team in a dominant conference playing MUCH tougher overall competition in the bowl games.

WOW Blackshirt316 very well put out :clap

 

[VA Husker Fan]

If leading teams to multiple national championships is the primary criteria, where is Jerry Tagge in this? The Big 8 finished 1-2-3, and NU beat Alabama, #2 at the time and final #4.

Or Steve Davis, who never lost a game at OU and lead them to 2 national championships?

If we had to replay the 95 season and I got to pick the Husker QB for that team, I'd probably take Frazier again. The right guy for that team.

Give me a random team, and I'll take Young.

 

[redout22]

Absolutely not. Young had one good year, in a year where competition in the the conference and overall wasn't that great. Tommie won two national titles and three MVP's all in a conference that at the time was the best in the country and in bowl games overall faced stiffer competition.

2003 - Texas went 10-3 and lost the Holiday Bowl 28-20 to a bad Washington State team that got throttled by USC 43-16 and lost to a 6-6 Washington team and a 5-7 Notre Dame team that was pathetic.

The conference was horrible that season as well. The conference went 1-6 in the bowl season, Kansas was blown out of the Tangerine Bowl by a mediocre N. C. State team 56-26, by and the ONLY team to actually win a bowl game that year was Nebraska and we went 10-3 and fired our coach it was so bad.

2004 - Texas won the Rose Bowl 38-37 against Michigan.

Conference was mediocre at best this year too, It appears to be a respectable 4-3 overall showing until you actually look and see that besides the one point Texas win, two of the other wins for the conference were Colorado's 33-28 squeaker over mighty UTEP and Iowa State's 17-13 win over the Juggernaut that is Miami... of Ohio.

2005 - Texas won a National Championship in the Rose Bowl against USC, however they did so by winning a conference that was good up top but extremely low on depth and went 5-3 in the bowls. And four of those wins were by 7 points or less, 3 of them (and one loss) were all won by a field goal.

They did beat the so called "greatest team of all time" in USC, so they get props for that one. Even if that greatest team of all time needed a miracle to beat a so-so Notre Dame team.

Compare that to Frazier's career and it isn't even close.

Now people can point to the Big 8 as being not that strong as well, mainly because the bottom teams were pitiful.. but the top was loaded and pretty much any team that made a bowl game from the Big 8 in the years Frazier played not only won but did so convincingly. There were two bowl losses for the Big 8 conference between 1993-1995, one was the 1994 Orange Bowl that NU lost to Florida State for the National Title, the other was a 7-12 KSU loss to Boston College in 1994.

The victories for those years? (remember there were FAR fewer bowls before the BCS)

1993

Oklahoma beat Texas Tech 41-10 (Sun)

Colorado beat Fresno State 41-30 (Aloha)

Kansas State beat Wyoming 52-17 (Copper)

1994

Nebraska beat Miami 24-17 (Orange - National Title)

Colorado beat Notre Dame 41-24 (Fiesta)

1995

Nebraska beat Florida 62-24 (Fiesta - National Title)

Colorado beat Oregon 38-6 (Orange)

KSU beat Colorado State 54-21 (Holiday)

Kansas beat UCLA 51-30 (Aloha)

And I didn't even count Frazier's freshman year where he won Big 8 Freshman of the year, and took his team to a 9-3 record and #11 in the country because it's simply too unfair to Young who redshirted as a freshman.

In fact based on this, Young probably isn't even 2nd. I'd put Frazier AND Tebow ahead of him *based on the strength of the SEC*. Young was slightly better than Pat White with more help. Frazier was the best player on the best team in a dominant conference playing MUCH tougher overall competition in the bowl games.

WOW Blackshirt316 very well put out :clap

Even though I hate Texas I have to say this. Notre Dame in 2005 was anything but so-so. Also does texas' 70-3 win in the Big 12 championship ame mean nothing <_< Vince Young led the team and hardly had anyone to support him. That is the only reason I would say Vince Young was barely better than T Frazier

 

[Blackshirt316]

Absolutely not. Young had one good year, in a year where competition in the the conference and overall wasn't that great. Tommie won two national titles and three MVP's all in a conference that at the time was the best in the country and in bowl games overall faced stiffer competition.

2003 - Texas went 10-3 and lost the Holiday Bowl 28-20 to a bad Washington State team that got throttled by USC 43-16 and lost to a 6-6 Washington team and a 5-7 Notre Dame team that was pathetic.

The conference was horrible that season as well. The conference went 1-6 in the bowl season, Kansas was blown out of the Tangerine Bowl by a mediocre N. C. State team 56-26, by and the ONLY team to actually win a bowl game that year was Nebraska and we went 10-3 and fired our coach it was so bad.

2004 - Texas won the Rose Bowl 38-37 against Michigan.

Conference was mediocre at best this year too, It appears to be a respectable 4-3 overall showing until you actually look and see that besides the one point Texas win, two of the other wins for the conference were Colorado's 33-28 squeaker over mighty UTEP and Iowa State's 17-13 win over the Juggernaut that is Miami... of Ohio.

2005 - Texas won a National Championship in the Rose Bowl against USC, however they did so by winning a conference that was good up top but extremely low on depth and went 5-3 in the bowls. And four of those wins were by 7 points or less, 3 of them (and one loss) were all won by a field goal.

They did beat the so called "greatest team of all time" in USC, so they get props for that one. Even if that greatest team of all time needed a miracle to beat a so-so Notre Dame team.

Compare that to Frazier's career and it isn't even close.

Now people can point to the Big 8 as being not that strong as well, mainly because the bottom teams were pitiful.. but the top was loaded and pretty much any team that made a bowl game from the Big 8 in the years Frazier played not only won but did so convincingly. There were two bowl losses for the Big 8 conference between 1993-1995, one was the 1994 Orange Bowl that NU lost to Florida State for the National Title, the other was a 7-12 KSU loss to Boston College in 1994.

The victories for those years? (remember there were FAR fewer bowls before the BCS)

1993

Oklahoma beat Texas Tech 41-10 (Sun)

Colorado beat Fresno State 41-30 (Aloha)

Kansas State beat Wyoming 52-17 (Copper)

1994

Nebraska beat Miami 24-17 (Orange - National Title)

Colorado beat Notre Dame 41-24 (Fiesta)

1995

Nebraska beat Florida 62-24 (Fiesta - National Title)

Colorado beat Oregon 38-6 (Orange)

KSU beat Colorado State 54-21 (Holiday)

Kansas beat UCLA 51-30 (Aloha)

And I didn't even count Frazier's freshman year where he won Big 8 Freshman of the year, and took his team to a 9-3 record and #11 in the country because it's simply too unfair to Young who redshirted as a freshman.

In fact based on this, Young probably isn't even 2nd. I'd put Frazier AND Tebow ahead of him *based on the strength of the SEC*. Young was slightly better than Pat White with more help. Frazier was the best player on the best team in a dominant conference playing MUCH tougher overall competition in the bowl games.

WOW Blackshirt316 very well put out :clap

Even though I hate Texas I have to say this. Notre Dame in 2005 was anything but so-so. Also does texas' 70-3 win in the Big 12 championship ame mean nothing <_< Vince Young led the team and hardly had anyone to support him. That is the only reason I would say Vince Young was barely better than T Frazier

Notre Dame had some good wins that year, this is true... but they also lost to Michigan State. The same Michigan State team that lost 49-14 to Northwestern and 41-18 to Minnesota. They lost to Ohio State, Michigan, Penn State and Purdue as well that year. In fact, besides beating Notre Dame the Spartans only beat Kent State, Hawaii, Illionis and Indiana. Truly good teams don't lose games like that to Michigan State.

And the B12 Championship game? Are you kidding me? They beat a Colorado team that was beaten badly by Miami 23-3 and by Iowa State 30-16 and was on a two game skid INCLUDING a 30-3 loss to Nebraska at home. Texas had already beaten them 42-17 earlier that season and CU had no coaching staff in that championship game because Barnett knew he was gone after losing to us so they didn't really even make any adjustments from the first game.

Heck if we had played them a 2nd time that year and they didn't make any adjustments from the first go around we would likely have beaten them even worse than Texas did, even with Cally/Coz drawing it up.

 

[BeachBuffs]

Great thread, I have to say though that we aren't comparing apples to oranges due to the differences between the 2 QB's. I would say that Tommy is perhaps the greatest option QB of all time which in itself should place him in the elite ranking of college football players. Recent history will always trump older history and that is a fact, so VY's performance against USC stands out fresh in people's minds whereas TF's against Miami is now somewhat lost on the general public outside of Nebraska. If I had to pick between the two and I was putting a team together and was going to run what everyone in highschool and college is running at the moment then I would go with VY. If I wanted to build my team around an option style offense then I would take TF. It isn't a knock on TF but just the difference in the styles between the two men, both were game changers and both could will their teams to win but both could do it differently.

 

[cb1954]

Frazier was a very good/great QB for NU on some great teams. But I would have to pick Young. No way Texas is NC without him. 95 NU would have been with Brook or probably even Matt Turman at QB. He missed most of 94 so he wasn't the one that led NU to the game vs Miami, although they might not have won the Orange Bowl without him. Young didn't even play his senior year. Better passer and just as good a runner.

People overlook Jerry Tagge at NU as well. The NCAA record book lists him at 24-1-1 as a starter. NU won 2 NCs with him at QB and he was voted the most valuable back in both NC games.

Tagge Bio

 

[clone]

Vince Young better than Tommie Fraizer??

Fraizer?? :rollin :rollin :rollin

to answer the question...

Yes. But then, Tagge is my favorite qb.

opinions vary.

 

[junior4949]

Everyone had better brace themselves for the Tebow vs. Frazier best ever college QB because I have no doubts it's on its way. VY had a better season than Frazier ever did, but was he a better college QB? Maybe, I don't know. Texas does not win the NC without VY. Does NU win the NC without Frazier? Probably. We won in 94' because of the OL completely wearing down Miami. Frazier was actually pulled from the game because of his poor play. It was the OL and RB's that won the game. Do we win the 94' NC game without Fraier? Yeah, probably so. VY more than likely loses the debate as being a better college QB than Frazier quite simply because he didn't play as long. One great season, does not easily compare to one great career. However, we will be asked the Tebow vs. Frazier question and to me it looks like Tebow comes out the winner especially if they win their 3rd NC in 4 years.

 

[Enhance]

Everyone had better brace themselves for the Tebow vs. Frazier best ever college QB because I have no doubts it's on its way. VY had a better season than Frazier ever did, but was he a better college QB? Maybe, I don't know. Texas does not win the NC without VY. Does NU win the NC without Frazier? Probably. We won in 94' because of the OL completely wearing down Miami. Frazier was actually pulled from the game because of his poor play. It was the OL and RB's that won the game. Do we win the 94' NC game without Fraier? Yeah, probably so. VY more than likely loses the debate as being a better college QB than Frazier quite simply because he didn't play as long. One great season, does not easily compare to one great career. However, we will be asked the Tebow vs. Frazier question and to me it looks like Tebow comes out the winner especially if they win their 3rd NC in 4 years.

If Florida wins again this year it will be official: Tebow is better than Frazier.

And that's fine with me, because we still had the best team for 2 years and the most dominant team ever.

 

[husker B-rent]

Everyone had better brace themselves for the Tebow vs. Frazier best ever college QB because I have no doubts it's on its way. VY had a better season than Frazier ever did, but was he a better college QB? Maybe, I don't know. Texas does not win the NC without VY. Does NU win the NC without Frazier? Probably. We won in 94' because of the OL completely wearing down Miami. Frazier was actually pulled from the game because of his poor play. It was the OL and RB's that won the game. Do we win the 94' NC game without Fraier? Yeah, probably so. VY more than likely loses the debate as being a better college QB than Frazier quite simply because he didn't play as long. One great season, does not easily compare to one great career. However, we will be asked the Tebow vs. Frazier question and to me it looks like Tebow comes out the winner especially if they win their 3rd NC in 4 years.

If Florida wins again this year it will be official: Tebow is better than Frazier.

And that's fine with me, because we still had the best team for 2 years and the most dominant team ever.

<_< Teboverated has only won ONE national title! he was NOT the starter for the first one, it was chris leak! ESPN really BS's people and they believe it, Tebow is not a good runner and only a slightly above average passer at best. yeah he can get a first down on short yardage situations such as 3rd and 1, but so can any fullback! the guy does not cut well and he has almost no field vision.

he will eventually be exposed as a system qb and them maybe some people will lose the Tebowners they have for him! :wacko:

 

[redout22]

Everyone had better brace themselves for the Tebow vs. Frazier best ever college QB because I have no doubts it's on its way. VY had a better season than Frazier ever did, but was he a better college QB? Maybe, I don't know. Texas does not win the NC without VY. Does NU win the NC without Frazier? Probably. We won in 94' because of the OL completely wearing down Miami. Frazier was actually pulled from the game because of his poor play. It was the OL and RB's that won the game. Do we win the 94' NC game without Fraier? Yeah, probably so. VY more than likely loses the debate as being a better college QB than Frazier quite simply because he didn't play as long. One great season, does not easily compare to one great career. However, we will be asked the Tebow vs. Frazier question and to me it looks like Tebow comes out the winner especially if they win their 3rd NC in 4 years.

If Florida wins again this year it will be official: Tebow is better than Frazier.

And that's fine with me, because we still had the best team for 2 years and the most dominant team ever.

<_< Teboverated has only won ONE national title! he was NOT the starter for the first one, it was chris leak! ESPN really BS's people and they believe it, Tebow is not a good runner and only a slightly above average passer at best. yeah he can get a first down on short yardage situations such as 3rd and 1, but so can any fullback! the guy does not cut well and he has almost no field vision.

he will eventually be exposed as a system qb and them maybe some people will lose the Tebowners they have for him! :wacko:

It would be a fun arguement. But at worst he is an above average rusher. He is strong and breaks a lot of tackles. I would say his passing is much worse than his rushing and he still is a pretty good passer

 

[husker B-rent]

Everyone had better brace themselves for the Tebow vs. Frazier best ever college QB because I have no doubts it's on its way. VY had a better season than Frazier ever did, but was he a better college QB? Maybe, I don't know. Texas does not win the NC without VY. Does NU win the NC without Frazier? Probably. We won in 94' because of the OL completely wearing down Miami. Frazier was actually pulled from the game because of his poor play. It was the OL and RB's that won the game. Do we win the 94' NC game without Fraier? Yeah, probably so. VY more than likely loses the debate as being a better college QB than Frazier quite simply because he didn't play as long. One great season, does not easily compare to one great career. However, we will be asked the Tebow vs. Frazier question and to me it looks like Tebow comes out the winner especially if they win their 3rd NC in 4 years.

If Florida wins again this year it will be official: Tebow is better than Frazier.

And that's fine with me, because we still had the best team for 2 years and the most dominant team ever.

<_< Teboverated has only won ONE national title! he was NOT the starter for the first one, it was chris leak! ESPN really BS's people and they believe it, Tebow is not a good runner and only a slightly above average passer at best. yeah he can get a first down on short yardage situations such as 3rd and 1, but so can any fullback! the guy does not cut well and he has almost no field vision.

he will eventually be exposed as a system qb and them maybe some people will lose the Tebowners they have for him! :wacko:

It would be a fun arguement. But at worst he is an above average rusher. He is strong and breaks a lot of tackles. I would say his passing is much worse than his rushing and he still is a pretty good passer

ehh, a few (lot of people) have had this argument on here before and i dont plan on getting back into it but i will just a little.

Short passes-good receivers-lots of yards after the catches.

Has no rushing talent either, just bashes through everyone.

As for the 20 Rushing TD's last year...well they were all from within

10 yards, and he just ran through everyone because he is bigger than them, not because he is faster or more decisive or because of his "great" field vision!

What seals the deal for me is this stat: Tim Tebow has never led the Gators to victory while trailing heading into the fourth quarter!

there have been so many qbs who are better than tebow, a few off the top of my head are:

Tommie Frazier

Vince Young

Micheal Vick (dont let the dog thing distract you, he is probably the best running qb in history)

colt mccoy

Turner Gill (probably the best runner/passer combo we have had and maybe the best qb we have ever had)

i could go on and on......

Look at it this way: If Tebow goes to Purdue or Auburn, does he win one Heisman or two national titles? I doubt he wins any of it. But put some of the other great players in college history -- Herschel Walker, Jim Brown, Barry Sanders, Doug Flutie -- at another school, and they're going to achieve the same level of greatness. Tebow is a great athlete. His althetic prowess isn't clearly defined by any one position. He's not a great passer, and isn't a very shifty runner. His running ability is usually aided by his size and decent speed. I believe that Tebow (as was the case with another Meyer QB, Alex Smith) benefits from the system he is in.