Watson haters.......Cool down and lets remember some things

[zoogs]

Because we aren't going to just find an offensive mastermind the way Pelini is a mad defensive genius?

I think if we find a good WR coach and a good OL coach and keep Watson, it would be a lot better than getting a good WR coach and a good OL coach and exchanging Watson for a lesser OC.

The difference is you think the new OC will be better, and I think the chances of that are rather slim.

This posts says TO is like a Don controlling the family and Bo is a figure head. Conspiracy theories are by nature based on loose connections and prejudice. I am going to need some evidence to your fishiness smell, without it it is just an open can of tuna on the counter you didn't throw away.

I'm not calling out TO, who has done so much good for this program even since he came back. He's just not mistake free either. Other people far more in the know have been shaking their heads at this hire since it was made.

 

[carlfense]

Because we aren't going to just find an offensive mastermind the way Pelini is a mad defensive genius?

I think if we find a good WR coach and a good OL coach and keep Watson, it would be a lot better than getting a good WR coach and a good OL coach and exchanging Watson for a lesser OC.

The difference is you think the new OC will be better, and I think the chances of that are rather slim.

Really? What makes you think Watson is a good OC? I'm serious.

It's not his repeated calling of out routes in a monsoon is it?

I think we could hire a successful Texas high school coach and I'd be happier with the on field product than with Watson. You're entitled to your opinion, I'm just confused as to what you are basing it on.

We don't need a mad offensive genius. We just need a competent coach who can teach the game and design schemes in a way easy for college kids to learn and execute. As far as I'm concerned we don't have that.

 

[redblooded]

How lucky do you think Saban feels to have dodged that bullet?

2 years in a row hes had to scrap at least part of his offense because it wasn't working midseason. It worked the first time because he had some pretty crafty seniors. We can't go from decent against most teams to absolutely abysmal every time a senior class leaves. It shouldn't take 4 years to run a college offense.

This year nothing ever really clicked except in 4th quarter mizzou and against sunbelt opponent defenses.

QB play has been abysmal. You'd think they'd gain some experience and get slightly better throughout the season at least. That didn't happen. That falls on Watson too.

Ultimately I'd be relieved if he was let go and we got an offense that was actually geared towards college kids learning how to run it quickly and efficiently. Not 5th year seniors putting up decent numbers and then the offense dieing when they graduate.

 

[zoogs]

Because we aren't going to just find an offensive mastermind the way Pelini is a mad defensive genius?

I think if we find a good WR coach and a good OL coach and keep Watson, it would be a lot better than getting a good WR coach and a good OL coach and exchanging Watson for a lesser OC.

The difference is you think the new OC will be better, and I think the chances of that are rather slim.

Really? What makes you think Watson is a good OC? I'm serious.

It's not his repeated calling of out routes in a monsoon is it?

I think we could hire a successful Texas high school coach and I'd be happier with the on field product than with Watson. You're entitled to your opinion, I'm just confused as to what you are basing it on.

We don't need a mad offensive genius. We just need a competent coach who can teach the game and design schemes in a way easy for college kids to learn and execute. As far as I'm concerned we don't have that.

I think we will have to agree to disagree.

I don't know that SW is a mad genius, but he is a flexible, capable, intelligent coordinator. It's not an easy job especially given such poor line execution and receivers that can't do their job. I base this on what he's done with marginal talent like Ganz, Swift, Peterson. And on his recognizing that we just need to win, style points be damned.

I think the O's problems are not at all in the teach the game and design schemes department. That has little to do with Barney publicly trashing our former coach's O-line philosophy and teaching them that technique is not important. Things like that.

Put it this way: give any OC ridiculous well coached talent and he will do well. For the same amount of talent with the same quality of coaching, I'll take SW over most OCs in the nation. But we can agree to disagree.

 

[sarge87]

I'm not sure he has the authority to do that. The whole Barney Cotton thing reeks of fishiness in every direction. I don't think he was Bo's guy, and he certainly wasn't Watson's guy. I think he was T.O's guy, and he is getting a weird amount of special treatment. As much as anyone even on the staff may want him gone, I don't think it's happening. I have no idea who should be held accountable for that.

I mean, it's weird, but I'm not even sure Bo has the authority to fire him. Or maybe it's that he doesn't want to. I don't know. I just hope he doesn't wait until things come to a head...not that they kind of haven't, already.

2. Watson hasn't really adapted much this season. And he hasn't developed our noodle-noogin QB named Lee. Lee actually appears to have regressed this season. He hasn't developed our WRs into playmakers or even ball-catchers. At all. The entire season. I can see this argument carrying weight if there was ANYTHING resembling improvement this season, but sadly there is not. Even last season, with these more talented players, Wats only got us to the middle of the big 12 statistically as far as offense.

Well, when the guy has a noodle noggin, there's not much to do about that. Right, Mr. Keller?

I wish we had someone better at QB. I really do. I've been the biggest supporter of Lee but, it's not a good sign that he has to be our starter right now. And Watson DID adapt this season. The offense we run now and the one we tried to run at the beginning, night and day.

This posts says TO is like a Don controlling the family and Bo is a figure head. Conspiracy theories are by nature based on loose connections and prejudice. I am going to need some evidence to your fishiness smell, without it it is just an open can of tuna on the counter you didn't throw away.

It was Osborne who kept Watson and Gilmore when everyone else was handed their pink slips. Not? Kind of Don-like eh? He does have a nice black trench coat. :lol:

As far as Cotton is concerned, I never cared for his O-Line when he was here the first time.

 

[Paul in WI]

I'm not sure he has the authority to do that. The whole Barney Cotton thing reeks of fishiness in every direction. I don't think he was Bo's guy, and he certainly wasn't Watson's guy. I think he was T.O's guy, and he is getting a weird amount of special treatment. As much as anyone even on the staff may want him gone, I don't think it's happening. I have no idea who should be held accountable for that.

I mean, it's weird, but I'm not even sure Bo has the authority to fire him. Or maybe it's that he doesn't want to. I don't know. I just hope he doesn't wait until things come to a head...not that they kind of haven't, already.

2. Watson hasn't really adapted much this season. And he hasn't developed our noodle-noogin QB named Lee. Lee actually appears to have regressed this season. He hasn't developed our WRs into playmakers or even ball-catchers. At all. The entire season. I can see this argument carrying weight if there was ANYTHING resembling improvement this season, but sadly there is not. Even last season, with these more talented players, Wats only got us to the middle of the big 12 statistically as far as offense.

Well, when the guy has a noodle noggin, there's not much to do about that. Right, Mr. Keller?

I wish we had someone better at QB. I really do. I've been the biggest supporter of Lee but, it's not a good sign that he has to be our starter right now. And Watson DID adapt this season. The offense we run now and the one we tried to run at the beginning, night and day.

This posts says TO is like a Don controlling the family and Bo is a figure head. Conspiracy theories are by nature based on loose connections and prejudice. I am going to need some evidence to your fishiness smell, without it it is just an open can of tuna on the counter you didn't throw away.

It was Osborne who kept Watson and Gilmore when everyone else was handed their pink slips. Not? Kind of Don-like eh? He does have a nice black trench coat. :lol:

As far as Cotton is concerned, I never cared for his O-Line when he was here the first time.

I think that you have to keep SOMEONE on staff when you're doing a mass cleaning. I don't think that Osborne could have just gotten rid of the coaches on both sides of the ball. There has to be someone around that knows the existing players to help in the transition.

By the way, I was afk for awhile. When I came back, there were a lot of new messages in this thread with all of them being civil. Thanks! That's really cool to see that we can have a conversation about a touchy subject without getting all bent out of shape.

 

[carlfense]

Because we aren't going to just find an offensive mastermind the way Pelini is a mad defensive genius?

I think if we find a good WR coach and a good OL coach and keep Watson, it would be a lot better than getting a good WR coach and a good OL coach and exchanging Watson for a lesser OC.

The difference is you think the new OC will be better, and I think the chances of that are rather slim.

Really? What makes you think Watson is a good OC? I'm serious.

It's not his repeated calling of out routes in a monsoon is it?

I think we could hire a successful Texas high school coach and I'd be happier with the on field product than with Watson. You're entitled to your opinion, I'm just confused as to what you are basing it on.

We don't need a mad offensive genius. We just need a competent coach who can teach the game and design schemes in a way easy for college kids to learn and execute. As far as I'm concerned we don't have that.

I think we will have to agree to disagree.

I don't know that SW is a mad genius, but he is a flexible, capable, intelligent coordinator. It's not an easy job especially given such poor line execution and receivers that can't do their job. I base this on what he's done with marginal talent like Ganz, Swift, Peterson. And on his recognizing that we just need to win, style points be damned.

I think the O's problems are not at all in the teach the game and design schemes department. That has little to do with Barney publicly trashing our former coach's O-line philosophy and teaching them that technique is not important. Things like that.

Put it this way: give any OC ridiculous well coached talent and he will do well. For the same amount of talent with the same quality of coaching, I'll take SW over most OCs in the nation. But we can agree to disagree.

Agree to disagree, I guess.

I'm a little disappointed that a Husker fan would refer to Ganz, Swift, and Peterson as marginal talents. I'm honestly not trying to drop the race card . . . but is it because they are white? Those guys were good. Period. They had adequate speed and executed to perfection with minimal errors. I think you are grossly short-changing them.

(Apologies again for bringing up race. I know people get so touchy about it. I'm just trying to figure out how someone could say those three are marginal talents. I believe Swift and Ganz got their shot at the NFL . . . don't know about Peterson. That is not "marginal talent.")

 

[Karawithasmile]

Because we aren't going to just find an offensive mastermind the way Pelini is a mad defensive genius?

I think if we find a good WR coach and a good OL coach and keep Watson, it would be a lot better than getting a good WR coach and a good OL coach and exchanging Watson for a lesser OC.

The difference is you think the new OC will be better, and I think the chances of that are rather slim.

Really? What makes you think Watson is a good OC? I'm serious.

It's not his repeated calling of out routes in a monsoon is it?

I think we could hire a successful Texas high school coach and I'd be happier with the on field product than with Watson. You're entitled to your opinion, I'm just confused as to what you are basing it on.

We don't need a mad offensive genius. We just need a competent coach who can teach the game and design schemes in a way easy for college kids to learn and execute. As far as I'm concerned we don't have that.

I think we will have to agree to disagree.

I don't know that SW is a mad genius, but he is a flexible, capable, intelligent coordinator. It's not an easy job especially given such poor line execution and receivers that can't do their job. I base this on what he's done with marginal talent like Ganz, Swift, Peterson. And on his recognizing that we just need to win, style points be damned.

I think the O's problems are not at all in the teach the game and design schemes department. That has little to do with Barney publicly trashing our former coach's O-line philosophy and teaching them that technique is not important. Things like that.

Put it this way: give any OC ridiculous well coached talent and he will do well. For the same amount of talent with the same quality of coaching, I'll take SW over most OCs in the nation. But we can agree to disagree.

Agree to disagree, I guess.

I'm a little disappointed that a Husker fan would refer to Ganz, Swift, and Peterson as marginal talents. I'm honestly not trying to drop the race card . . . but is it because they are white? Those guys were good. Period. They had adequate speed and executed to perfection with minimal errors. I think you are grossly short-changing them.

(Apologies again for bringing up race. I know people get so touchy about it. I'm just trying to figure out how someone could say those three are marginal talents. I believe Swift and Ganz got their shot at the NFL . . . don't know about Peterson. That is not "marginal talent.")

If Swift, Ganz, and Peterson are "marginal talent" then what does that make Lee and Paul? :wacko:

 

[zoogs]

OK, it's not because they are white. I loved those guys to death and wish we could keep them forever. They were extremely good players. But in terms of athletic ability, Swift was alright, but Peterson was not a fast gamebreaking WR, and Joe did not have an arm.

Marginally talented, but extremely intelligent and productive. They knew what they were doing. I would take them over Mark Sanchez and USC's receivers last year but that's just because I love them to death, not because I think they had more physical talent than those guys.

You'll find stronger arms and faster, stronger receivers everywhere you turn. But they really, really thrived with what we were doing. I didn't mean that as a denigration. You can't just take any marginal talent and throw them into a good system and see them thrive. They were something special. It was a match made in heaven for us. Talk about being maximized. They really, really overachieved during their time here and I couldn't be happier for all of them.

(Apologies again for bringing up race. I know people get so touchy about it. I'm just trying to figure out how someone could say those three are marginal talents. I believe Swift and Ganz got their shot at the NFL . . . don't know about Peterson. That is not "marginal talent.")

No, it's cool. They all got their shots, by the way. Ganz in Wash, Swift in Denver, Peterson in Jacksonville...I think Swift is somewhere else now, not sure where. He was doing well in Denver, but it wasn't on his physical ability, guy ran a 4.7 40 at the combine. Although Ganz, for as productive as he was among the nation's QBs last year, didn't even get a UDFA contract. Just a camp invite.

If Swift, Ganz, and Peterson are "marginal talent" then what does that make Lee and Paul?

Guys who have the physical tools, but who are underachieve. I'd take Ganz and Swift over Lee and Paul any day.

 

[RedGixxer]

So Im gona piss some fans off here but

Im sick of the constant attacks on Watson,

First of all do we remember how it was our offense last year that carried us?

second do we remember how Saban (yes the coach who managed to take the Crimson tide back to the promise land in just 3 years) went directly after Watson for his offensive coordinator and offered double his salary.

third, Tom Osborne recommended to Pelini to keep only Watson and Gilmore from the Callahan coaching staff

fourth, Osborne and Pelini have both been nothing but supportive and encouraging of Watson

and fifth he can recruit (and if we do get rid of him there goes Gabbert, and maybe our hopes for Andrew Green next year)

Our two biggest problems this year were depth at the offensive line and experience and depth at the Quarterback position.

Lee would probably not have been the starter if Witt never transfered, and Green would have recieved a red shirt. Were forgetting how hard it is to start as a freshman, especially for an offense whose play book is about a half a foot thick.

People have forgotten how much depth we have lost at the QB position this year, Witt transfered, Spano was sidelined to ACL problems and that left us with a QB who only had 2 pass attempts all of last season, a QB fresh outa highschool, and LB converted to QB because we were so lacking in depth and he played the position in highschool.

Throw on top of that a battered offensive line (Burkes was a huge loss) of Callahan's last and lowly rated recruits, who give our QBs little protection, and you have a major problem.

People seem to be forgetting how our offensive line has been the root of most of our offensive failure. Helu has been battered from the process (and also probably because we over rode him), Lee (who can't make decent decisions to begin with) has no time, and our backs have no holes. We are such a one dimensional offense it ridiculous!

But Cotton is already bringing in the big boys, we have Arod coming this next year and Moore the year after that

So don't do for Watson's throat just yet, give him another year or 2 before we do anything, this year was a hard deck to play with.

If we continually suck on offense the next few years, the Il change my mind

Osborne was WRONG WRONG WRONG about Watson!! Way WRONG!!!

 

[carlfense]

Osborne was WRONG WRONG WRONG about Watson!! Way WRONG!!!

Good lord, I almost agree with RedGixxer. What is this world coming to?

I think Osborne was right to encourage Bo to keep Watson for the transition year. It worked well last year. However, if TO is till encouraging Bo to keep Watson I agree with you.

 

[speedtoburn]

So Im gona piss some fans off here but

Im sick of the constant attacks on Watson,

First of all do we remember how it was our offense last year that carried us?

second do we remember how Saban (yes the coach who managed to take the Crimson tide back to the promise land in just 3 years) went directly after Watson for his offensive coordinator and offered double his salary.

third, Tom Osborne recommended to Pelini to keep only Watson and Gilmore from the Callahan coaching staff

fourth, Osborne and Pelini have both been nothing but supportive and encouraging of Watson

and fifth he can recruit (and if we do get rid of him there goes Gabbert, and maybe our hopes for Andrew Green next year)

Our two biggest problems this year were depth at the offensive line and experience and depth at the Quarterback position.

Lee would probably not have been the starter if Witt never transfered, and Green would have recieved a red shirt. Were forgetting how hard it is to start as a freshman, especially for an offense whose play book is about a half a foot thick.

People have forgotten how much depth we have lost at the QB position this year, Witt transfered, Spano was sidelined to ACL problems and that left us with a QB who only had 2 pass attempts all of last season, a QB fresh outa highschool, and LB converted to QB because we were so lacking in depth and he played the position in highschool.

Throw on top of that a battered offensive line (Burkes was a huge loss) of Callahan's last and lowly rated recruits, who give our QBs little protection, and you have a major problem.

People seem to be forgetting how our offensive line has been the root of most of our offensive failure. Helu has been battered from the process (and also probably because we over rode him), Lee (who can't make decent decisions to begin with) has no time, and our backs have no holes. We are such a one dimensional offense it ridiculous!

But Cotton is already bringing in the big boys, we have Arod coming this next year and Moore the year after that

So don't do for Watson's throat just yet, give him another year or 2 before we do anything, this year was a hard deck to play with.

If we continually suck on offense the next few years, the Il change my mind

Hey Craze, what's Watson's record as an OC in Big Xll Championship games? Oh that's right.. 0-6

Don't let the door hit him on the way out.

 

[knapplc]

Sorry I'm coming back to this conversation two hours later. I just scooped the drive, and while doing so I parked my car in the street, got it high-centered and had to dicker around with it for 20 minutes do dig it out. It's great living on a hill, especially when your neighbor parked his car downhill from yours so you can't just drive forward out of the snow. :blink:

Back to the conversation....

One key point I didn't make before that I probably should have made - "Opening up the offense" doesn't necessarily mean passing a lot more. If I knew that's what that meant when we were talking before I would have been more clear.

Opening up the offense could mean anything from the Wildcat to the Option to a true short-passing-game West Coast offense. We could rack up 300 yards per game and never throw the ball, as we all know. So that's why I had the disconnect between "opening up the offense" and "more turnovers."

Anyway, just wanted to clear that up. I'm tired and it's past beer thirty.

 

[GHOST]

Sorry I'm coming back to this conversation two hours later. I just scooped the drive, and while doing so I parked my car in the street, got it high-centered and had to dicker around with it for 20 minutes do dig it out. It's great living on a hill, especially when your neighbor parked his car downhill from yours so you can't just drive forward out of the snow. :blink:

Back to the conversation....

One key point I didn't make before that I probably should have made - "Opening up the offense" doesn't necessarily mean passing a lot more. If I knew that's what that meant when we were talking before I would have been more clear.

Opening up the offense could mean anything from the Wildcat to the Option to a true short-passing-game West Coast offense. We could rack up 300 yards per game and never throw the ball, as we all know. So that's why I had the disconnect between "opening up the offense" and "more turnovers."

Anyway, just wanted to clear that up. I'm tired and it's past beer thirty.

IF we went bacxk 2 the triple o and had sum kick a$$ west coast offense short passes that would be fine,as long as it dont take years to learn the system.With that said watson should still go thoe lol good last year,not good this year whats next ??Good next year bad the following?? Idk about all that thoe

 

[huskerswnc]

that was then, this is now