Where we discuss our fondness - or lack thereof - for former coaches now departed - Again

It'd require an extreme suspension of disbelief to believe that every Husker coach going back to at least Jennings hasn't had some "mean" things to say about a contingent of Husker fans.

 
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cm husker said:
Obviously I'm not against out of state talent. I would love for us to recruit well nationally, but my central contention is that we shouldn't concern ourselves with running a system that's supposedly appealing to the "best talent" because very few kids are that fixated on scheme. Rather, we should run a system that maximized production from our most readily available and retain-able talent.

And yes, the OL is a major factor because there are 5 of them on the field, so the allowable margins for missing is much smaller.

I don't think Burkhead, Abdullah or even Helu Jr chose NU because of our system - all were also low to mid level 3* recruits - Abdullah was mainly recruited as an athlete/defensive player. Martinez and Armstrong both chose based as much on the opportunity to play QB as anything related to the specific system.

My point is, continue to recruit who we can, but don't cater to the perceived desires of the 5* recruit . If they come, great.

If they don't, then you better have a system in place that can run without them.
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I'm not being condescending - This is possibly the most reasoned post I've seen you make on the topic.

When Riley arrived, some posters here looked up Riley's run/pass ratios of his time at Oregon State and many of us were a bit surprised to learn that when he has the right personnel line up for running the ball, he runs the ball. So I think we're on the same page - Don't cater to the whims of the 5*. Design the offense around the talent you bring in.

And although it's hard to like, objectively state this, I think there's really good evidence to suggest that this is precisely what Riley does. In fact, I believe he actually said it in almost those exact words prior to the season in 2015.

 
My issue with that approach is that if you're twisting your system from year to year, you're going to be pretty mediocre because you're asking players to learn and relearn (or forget) things they maybe worked on the year before.

I think you have to figure out who you want to be, which is based a lot on your set of circumstances, and then recruit to fill those demands. If you can get the pieces from afar, that's all well and good. But I don't think you go out and say "oh, we have a good line on an RB recruit this year, so for the next three or four years, we'll do XYZ in the running game" and then decide after that back is gone that you're going to shift to a WCO passing attack and then back again.

There's a lot of value in top to bottom clarity around who you are and what you're trying to do as a program. Alabama, despite a lot of coaching churn, has maintained that because Saban's core philosophies are based in athletic, hardnosed defense with a similar mindset of a power rushing attack fueled by dominance on the lines. The rest flows from there on the peripheries.

This probably belongs back in the 2017 offense thread, but I'd love to understand what Riley's 5 principles to running an offense are. With TO, he laid them out regularly - there's even a video around - I'll try to find it.

With Riley, it's much more wishy washy.

 
Again, you're making pretty reasoned points; not ridiculous by any stretch. I would say that Riley has had an offensive identity in his college football head coaching career - It's a pro style offense. And a couple posts above, I was referring more to the actual run/pass ratios from season to season. You can still have the same same overarching identity while varying your run/pass ratio season by season. In fact, that's just a damn smart thing to do, based on personnel.

On a bit of a tangent, look at Jalen Hurts for Alabama. Have the preceding quarterbacks at Alabama had an ability to run? No, but they run zone read this season with Jalen this season this time, to good success.

And on a third train of thought, probably the number one thing I hated about Bo was that he showed himself (in my opinion) to be completely incapable of landing a great quarterback. He also showed himself incapable of recruiting great offensive lines. Therefore, it was time to try a different guy and see if he could be a better recruiter, because we just couldn't put together talented enough teams to play consistently top 10 football, and that's what Nebraska football is all about.

 
Guy Chamberlin said:
But as long as I'm here: Tom Osborne actually did listen to his critics, and nearly 20 seasons into his head coaching career he changed his recruiting philosophy, focusing more on speed, more on defense and more on faraway high school football hotbeds.
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Still beating this dead horse? It's hard to take your knowledge of NU football seriously if you think that Osborne suddenly woke up during the '90s and realized that he must start to recruit speed! Guy, let me introduce you to Irving Fryer, and Broderick Thomas to name a few. Or, are they not speedy enough for you?
And, it wasn't his critics he listened to, rather, it was his friends, like Bobby Bowden (who in turn learned from Jimmy Johnson at Miami) along with hiring assistants like Kevin Steele, which lead to the defensive changes in the '90s, of putting linebackers at defensive ends, and defensive backs at linebacker positions.

 
flfmrredfan, this thread isn't about who knows the most about what did or didn't happen in Husker football past.

It's about showing cm husker why Riley might just be able to turn us into a better football team than we were under Bo.
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flfmrredfan said:
Guy Chamberlin said:
But as long as I'm here: Tom Osborne actually did listen to his critics, and nearly 20 seasons into his head coaching career he changed his recruiting philosophy, focusing more on speed, more on defense and more on faraway high school football hotbeds.
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Still beating this dead horse? It's hard to take your knowledge of NU football seriously if you think that Osborne suddenly woke up during the '90s and realized that he must start to recruit speed! Guy, let me introduce you to Irving Fryer, and Broderick Thomas to name a few. Or, are they not speedy enough for you?
And, it wasn't his critics he listened to, rather, it was his friends, like Bobby Bowden (who in turn learned from Jimmy Johnson at Miami) along with hiring assistants like Kevin Steele, which lead to the defensive changes in the '90s, of putting linebackers at defensive ends, and defensive backs at linebacker positions.
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Guy said nothing about recruiting. It wasnt about recruiting speed. it was about getting MORE speed on the field at all costs. Even if it mean multiple guys completely changing positions and changing the whole defensive scheme.

Critics. Opponents. Colleagues. Friends. What difference does it make

You said the same thing he did.

 
TO and McBride went and had a lovely visit with Bobby Bowden and that is how the defense switched from a 5-2 to a 4-3. That is when they started recruiting safeties to play linebacker, linebackers to play DE and DE to play DT.

 
Speaking of former coaches, congratulations to Solich for clinching his division with a win last night and putting his team in position to pull off an upset.

Congratulations to Pelini for piloting his team to their first playoff appearance in 10 years. A very nice next step from last year's performance.

Last I chcecked, Gill was doing well at Liberty and we all know Bohl is performing well at Wyoming.

Glad to see some great coaches continue their success.

 
cm husker said:
Guy Chamberlin said:
cm husker said:
Guy Chamberlin said:
cm husker said:
TO didn't tailor his offense to attract coastal talent. But he certainly recruited the coasts. And rightfully so.
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I missed the part where Mike Riley is doing anything different.

Unless you want to go ahead and explain that "coastal talent" is your code word for a pass-first offense, a skillset that somehow eludes the millions of football players in the middle of the country.

You could also come to the coast seeking the best running backs in the country. California is full of them. Florida has dual threat quarterbacks. New Jersey has speed and talent on both sides of the ball. Every offense will need good players at every position. Tom Osborne knew this. MIke Riley does, too. Probably because it's not a secret. There's no discernible geographic speciality when it comes to football, but there are high school football hotbeds.

Mike Riley getting traction among prized California recruits who take to social media bragging about coming to Nebraska is nothing but good.

Unless you want to be a d!(k about it.
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We've been around and around on this, so I won't rehash it again. I'll just (THREE PARAGRAPHS OF REHASHING))
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I'll stick with post #20, which you've done nothing to refute.

But as long as I'm here: Tom Osborne actually did listen to his critics, and nearly 20 seasons into his head coaching career he changed his recruiting philosophy, focusing more on speed, more on defense and more on faraway high school football hotbeds. As you may recall, this led to "championship" football, although I'm not sure why you put the word in quotes.

By the way....didn't this used to be a completely different thread?
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Guy, is it your contention that TO didn't recruit nationally before the 90s?
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No. Why would I suggest something so blatantly untrue?

 
No idea. But it seems like you were kind of saying that when you said he changed his philosophy to concentrate on faraway football hotbeds.

 
flfmrredfan said:
Guy Chamberlin said:
But as long as I'm here: Tom Osborne actually did listen to his critics, and nearly 20 seasons into his head coaching career he changed his recruiting philosophy, focusing more on speed, more on defense and more on faraway high school football hotbeds.
Click to expand...
Still beating this dead horse? It's hard to take your knowledge of NU football seriously if you think that Osborne suddenly woke up during the '90s and realized that he must start to recruit speed! Guy, let me introduce you to Irving Fryer, and Broderick Thomas to name a few. Or, are they not speedy enough for you?
And, it wasn't his critics he listened to, rather, it was his friends, like Bobby Bowden (who in turn learned from Jimmy Johnson at Miami) along with hiring assistants like Kevin Steele, which lead to the defensive changes in the '90s, of putting linebackers at defensive ends, and defensive backs at linebacker positions.
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Oh it's much easier to pinpoint than that, flmilmflm. Tom Osborne woke up on January 2, 1991 after getting trounced by Georgia Tech in the Citrus Bowl warning his staff that they might get fired and knowing that his own job was on the line. While Nebraska could still chalk up 6 or 7 wins in the old Big 8, Osborne's strong but predictable offenses were getting shut down by the speedy and talent rich teams like Ga. Tech, Florida, Miami, Florida State and Oklahoma and Colorado in our own conference. The "critics" said Nebraska's offense was too predictable, and they were half-right. You still needed defensive speed on the corners to shut down the power option, and unfortunately for us, the elite teams now boasted that kind of defensive speed. As mentioned, Tom sought advice from the coaches who had bested him. Bowden was a friend. That doesn't mean Osborne didn't listen to the criticism. It's certainly to TO's credit that he was willing to change his philosophy 20 years into his career. That's what good coaches do.

Osborne's recruiting changes revolved mostly around the defense, although grabbing a savvier, speedier quarterback from one of those "coastal talent" regions certainly helped, as we remember Florida's Tommie Frazier better than we do Aurora, Nebraska's Tom Haase, the starting QB against Georgia Tech on January 1, 1991.

Irving Fryar (not Fryer) and Broderick Thomas certainly were fast.

Is that all you can bring to the discussion?

 
So what is this thread about again?

Do any of you remember a poster from back in the Clownahan days named FormerFan?

 
cm husker said:
No idea. But it seems like you were kind of saying that when you said he changed his philosophy to concentrate on faraway football hotbeds.
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I don't think he concentrated on faraway football hotbeds as much as he maintained the inroads Solich had already made in places like New Jersey. To get the defensive speed he wanted, he had to compete with SEC schools in areas out of our traditional comfort zone, and double-down in places like New Jersey and California.

So much like Mike Riley, Tom Osborne created a team reliant on position players from outside the 500 mile radius, sometimes referred to dismissively as "coastal talent" although most Nebraska fans welcome them as Huskers.

Hard to imagine those '95 Huskers being quite as dominant without:

Lawrence Phillips (California)

Riley Washington (California)

Sheldon Jackson (California)

Christian Peter (New Jersey)

Jason Peter (New Jersey)

Kenny Cheatham (Arizona)

Terrell Farley (Georgia)

Tyrone Williams (Florida)

Tommie Frazier (Florida)

 
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