[Spoilers] Star Wars Episode VII The Force Awakens Spoiler Thread

[Redux]

I guess my gripe with the gripes currently circulating is that this is the first installment of a 3 part story. We weren't going to get the whole thing in part 1, and expecting that much seems silly. On top of the 3 new movies there are other side movies slated to come out that will likely answer some of the questions being asked or griped about not being answered. I guess patience is the key to eventually enjoying this movie for what it was?

 

[Redux]

If TPM was so positive how come the box office numbers say otherwise? TPM came out on May 21, 1999, so it was a summer release with lots of kiddies out of school myself included (I finished my freshman year of high school). It opened up with 64. 8 million, 51.3 mill in week 2, 66.9 mill in week 3 and then went downhill after that. If TMP was praised in such high regards than why did it see a -20% decline from opening week to week 2? Sure it spiked back up to 66.9 mill in week 3 a +3% increase but in week 4 it only made 32.8 mill a -36% decrease. If it was such a great film then word of mouth and reviews praising such a remarkable film would've gotten more people in the theater instead of the opposite? The Force Awakens made 247.9 million its opening week and is projected to make around $150-$170 its second weekend. It's already the fastest film to reach a Billion in just 12 days. Word of mouth and positive reviews on a Franchise like Star Wars will produce that amount of money and records.

Are you looking at your numbers? TFA made 247 million in its first weekend, 153 million in its second weekend. That's a 38% drop from first to second weekend. The kids are out of school this weekend, too.The Phantom Menace dropped 20% from opening weekend to second weekend. I'm not sure what you're trying to show with these numbers, but I don't think they're showing what you think they're showing.

I believe it also topped 1 Billion at a record pace. My guess is more people rushed back to see it a second time than they did for Episode I.

 

[KazLong]

http://variety.com/2015/film/global/vatican-newspaper-review-slams-star-wars-calling-it-confused-and-hazy-1201667084/

The vatican newspaper pointed out the same flaws, with the new movie as Knapp, basically citing it is a remake of the original, the go as far as to criticize the camera shots etc etc, best points besides the shot for shot remake, where the fact the villains where not developed.

However what did anyone expect from Disney and JJ. JJ is not known for doing his character development, he is action action action. You guys should just be thankful he did not fill your movie with solar flares constantly like he did to star trek.

As to the fan boys for the first prequels knapp is spot on. I remember my dad getting pan-handled by some kid at the mall asking him for money so he could buy a stand out cardboard thing of star wars by some high school kid, did not hear the conversation but I remember coming over when the kid was crying and shouting don't make fun of star wars! I think my dad was making the point why would he give money for anyone to buy merchandise for crappy films.

That said I enjoyed this film the most besides the real first film of the franchise. I cannot rank it higher then the first because it is after all a shot for shot remake. All of the criticism seems valid, however just because you criticize something does not mean you did not enjoy it just means room for improvement.

However as a star trek fan, I am very excited for Star Wars fans as they will eventually get to know the pure joy of the Star Trek fans now that Disney owns it. Disney will dilute the brand. SW fans will know the pain and joy that star trek fans know, and eventually will be able to criticize there films without being labeled traitors.

JJ can do one heck of an action scene however he cannot tell a story, see the second star trek movie. Just be glad that JJ did not try to tell a story in this movie instead just stringed together a series of action scenes that where enjoyable.

 

[Saunders]

When the prequels came out, Jar-Jar wasn't universally reviled.

Pretty much everyone who wasn't ages 5-11 hated the character. I remember walking out of the theater and everyone in my large group was like "WTH was that?"

 

[Saunders]

Tell me which movie this is.

A short cute robot ends up on a remote desert planet carrying vital information the resistance needs. It ends up being taken in by a lonely orphaned teenager and eventually meets Han Solo and the Wookie who are in trouble from old debts to smugglers. The info is the final piece in the puzzle that shows the weakness to the newest ultimate weapon of the bad guys. A weapon that can destroy whole planets. The Resistance can only manage 15 or 20 X Wing Fighters to battle the newest weapon and the best pilot in the end flies his X Wing through tight surroundings while fending off the tIE fighters to send the shot that ultimately destroys the mega weapon.

Not to say I didn't enjoy both movies. Just thought it could have been a bit more original and not a copycat.

You can do that type of thing with so many movies though.

Hell, Indiana Jones is a movie where he looks for a MacGuffin and gets chased by Nazis/Occultists/Nazis/Communists who are searching for the same thing with a damsel and/or a kid.

This isn't new. Example:

 

[ZRod]

I guess my gripe with the gripes currently circulating is that this is the first installment of a 3 part story. We weren't going to get the whole thing in part 1, and expecting that much seems silly. On top of the 3 new movies there are other side movies slated to come out that will likely answer some of the questions being asked or griped about not being answered. I guess patience is the key to eventually enjoying this movie for what it was?

I didn't expect the entire story to be told in this one movie, but you could have developed the new charscters and off screen relationships more. Han-Leia-Ben was just thrown together and explained with a bunch of throw away lines. The only reason we cared was because we all love Han, and Ford can bring any character to life. Why couldn't Leia talk to their son, what made Han so scared of him? Han regressed back tonhis old self preserving ways until he confronted Ben, why? Had they tried to get him back before? What the hell happened to General Solo?!!!

 

[Redux]

I find it funny that a big issue is the "lack of development" of the original characters when in the original trilogy we never even truly found out what happened between Hope, Empire and Jedi.

The new characters were developed WAY better than I expected. As far as the originals, what more do we need to know that wasn't told? Han and Leia had a child. Luke became a Master Jedi and trained him among others. Ben eventually gave into the dark side and became Kylo Ren which drove Han and Leai apart. She continued her role as a military figurehead, he left and did the only thing he knew before his military role. Luke went into exile for implied/open to interpritation reasons.

As for those calling it a shot for shot remake, that is simply absurd. It borrows the elements from Hope as a reboot yet develops new characters in true sequel form. It pays homage to A New Hope, while staking it's claim as a new era.

 

[Saunders]

Solo or Skywalker? Skywalker or Solo? Since the reveal of Daisy Ridley and her role in The Force Awakens a debate has raged as to the familial links of Rey. The film, the marketing and the tie-in materials strongly hint that Rey is connected to the Skywalker family in some way. After viewing the film thrice I walked away with the firm conviction that Rey is the daughter of Luke Skywalker and here are the reasons why…

http://makingstarwars.net/2015/12/the-case-for-rey-skywalker/

Pretty much my thoughts as well.

 

[knapplc]

I find it funny that a big issue is the "lack of development" of the original characters when in the original trilogy we never even truly found out what happened between Hope, Empire and Jedi.

The new characters were developed WAY better than I expected. As far as the originals, what more do we need to know that wasn't told? Han and Leia had a child. Luke became a Master Jedi and trained him among others. Ben eventually gave into the dark side and became Kylo Ren which drove Han and Leai apart. She continued her role as a military figurehead, he left and did the only thing he knew before his military role. Luke went into exile for implied/open to interpritation reasons.

As for those calling it a shot for shot remake, that is simply absurd. It borrows the elements from Hope as a reboot yet develops new characters in true sequel form. It pays homage to A New Hope, while staking it's claim as a new era.

Do you have any critique of the movie at all, or is it just perfect as is?

 

[Redux]

I find it funny that a big issue is the "lack of development" of the original characters when in the original trilogy we never even truly found out what happened between Hope, Empire and Jedi.The new characters were developed WAY better than I expected. As far as the originals, what more do we need to know that wasn't told? Han and Leia had a child. Luke became a Master Jedi and trained him among others. Ben eventually gave into the dark side and became Kylo Ren which drove Han and Leai apart. She continued her role as a military figurehead, he left and did the only thing he knew before his military role. Luke went into exile for implied/open to interpritation reasons.As for those calling it a shot for shot remake, that is simply absurd. It borrows the elements from Hope as a reboot yet develops new characters in true sequel form. It pays homage to A New Hope, while staking it's claim as a new era.

Do you have any critique of the movie at all, or is it just perfect as is?

Yes, I have some.
First off, while it has the ultimate feel of a Star Wars film it looks almost unrecognizable as one. The way they shot this film is completely different from the way the original and prequels were filmed. This, is not a bad thing though.

Han Solo could have lived or at the very least not fallen off the railing. This is not a bad thing though.

They didn't need to blow up Stakiller Base, I would have prefferred they failed in destroying it. This is not a bad thing though.

Too little of Luke. Not a bad thing though.

Unless you delve deeper into the Star Wars universe, some of the characters at first glance seem like throw aways but actually have vital roles. Nothing new though, all 7 do this.

So while my personal critiques may be shared by some, they don't in any way take away from the fact I immensely enjoyed the film. Yes as you have stated occasionally, you enjoyed it. But overall your gripes have been that it was a lazy remake, at least that is the jist of my take from your critiques.

 

[ZRod]

I think Rey and Fin were developed fine (although I didn't care for some of Fins personality quirks. It's really weird to see a former stormtrooper so cockey and bro like...). Rey has to be a mystery, and Fin just doesn't have much of a back story. But like I said, the Solos' relationships are a pretty big deal in this story and they didn't get much fleshing out.

We didn't need to know what happened between 4-5, and 5-6 because that was only a hanful of years, not 30. Also the opening scrolls gave enough background to orient the next episode. What more did we need to know after ANH? We knew Han had the hots for Leia, and the Empire was pissed.

 

[Redux]

I think Rey and Fin were developed fine (although I didn't care for some of Fins personality quirks. It's really weird to see a former stormtrooper so cockey and bro like...). Rey has to be a mystery, and Fin just doesn't have much of a back story. But like I said, the Solos' relationships are a pretty big deal in this story and they didn't get much fleshing out.

We didn't need to know what happened between 4-5, and 5-6 because that was only a hanful of years, not 30. Also the opening scrolls gave enough background to orient the next episode. What more did we need to know after ANH? We knew Han had the hots for Leia, and the Empire was pissed.

Finn's backstory is pretty short, he was an orphan taken very young by the First Order and raised to be a Stormtrooper. Once he had risen to active duty rank, he saw it for what it was and wanted no part of it, which we got to see first hand.

As far as the Skywalker and Solo stories, yeah it would have been an absolute delight to see these stories say ten years ago when the actors could have properly portrayed the characters as those events unfolded. Unfortunately Lucas prevented that. We will likely get a good bulk of what went down during those 30 years in the next installment.

 

[zoogs]

There was zero need for the empereror to be anything other than a big bad guy. That we had to see him as senator palpatine, pupil to plagueis, seducing a podracer turned padawan by making him cause the death of the Jedi who killed the father of boba fett and template of the original clone troopers, was why we got the prequels.

This needs to be little more than an exploration of the basic themes of good, evil, and in between, through the eyes of central characters that so far seem more compelling and dimensional than their predecessors in the series. A basic story done well. Really, for kewl plot twists and backstory completeness, I am sure more cartoon network series and new novels will be forthcoming.

Regarding the villains, there's clearly a lot of development going on with kylo. More in one film than the prequels put together. And while Vader was an 11th hour redemption story, he came fully formed. Nothing wrong with that, the originals were great. It's just a difference in perspective for the new story.

 

[Apathy]

If TPM was so positive how come the box office numbers say otherwise?

TPM came out on May 21, 1999, so it was a summer release with lots of kiddies out of school myself included (I finished my freshman year of high school). It opened up with 64. 8 million, 51.3 mill in week 2, 66.9 mill in week 3 and then went downhill after that. If TMP was praised in such high regards than why did it see a -20% decline from opening week to week 2? Sure it spiked back up to 66.9 mill in week 3 a +3% increase but in week 4 it only made 32.8 mill a -36% decrease.

If it was such a great film then word of mouth and reviews praising such a remarkable film would've gotten more people in the theater instead of the opposite?

The Force Awakens made 247.9 million its opening week and is projected to make around $150-$170 its second weekend. It's already the fastest film to reach a Billion in just 12 days. Word of mouth and positive reviews on a Franchise like Star Wars will produce that amount of money and records.

Are you looking at your numbers? TFA made 247 million in its first weekend, 153 million in its second weekend. That's a 38% drop from first to second weekend. The kids are out of school this weekend, too.

The Phantom Menace dropped 20% from opening weekend to second weekend. I'm not sure what you're trying to show with these numbers, but I don't think they're showing what you think they're showing.

Yes I saw the numbers and the percentage drop but still, TFA still made 153 million in its 2nd weekend and almost made more in its second weekend alone that what TPM did combined in a three week span.

Also I'm aware that students are out right now but that's due to the holidays, big difference when releasing movies in May than in December.

Star Wars The Force Awakens is the fastest film to reach a billion dollars in just 12 days and the movie hasn't been released in China yet.

 

[knapplc]

Yes I saw the numbers and the percentage drop but still, TFA still made 153 million in its 2nd weekend and almost made more in its second weekend alone that what TPM did combined in a three week span.

Also I'm aware that students are out right now but that's due to the holidays, big difference when releasing movies in May than in December.

Star Wars The Force Awakens is the fastest film to reach a billion dollars in just 12 days and the movie hasn't been released in China yet.

And you need to adjust for inflation, and for screens released on, etc. There's about eleventy-billion problems with whatever point you're trying to make with this.

Bottom line is, ATF isn't beyond reproach, there are valid criticisms of it, and box office dollars don't assuage that.