[Spoilers] Star Wars Episode VII The Force Awakens Spoiler Thread

[Mierin]

I'm really trying to play around with this fun topic, but I'm not getting the impression that's the case with everyone. There seem to be varying levels of seriousness here.

I was wondering the same since you're saying people are shouting you down.

 

[TonyStalloni]

I really do understand the idea of rebooting the Star Wars franchise to the new generations of moviegoers. I'm not at all opposed to the idea. Would it have been so hard to throw us (the generations who did see all or most of the earlier movies) a bone containing some new information about the new characters. Not even saying it has to be a complete biography. Just something so the 30 or 40 years between VI and VII seem more connected. I don't really need to know how Han and Leia separated. It happens.....and his name is "Solo". Why not show a brief flashback when Han and Leia were talking that showed the conflict between Han and Kylo Ren? Where did KR first meet the "Dark Side" and which leader of the DS contacted him? A few more tidbits would have helped me enjoy this movie a lot more.

 

[knapplc]

Of course there is euphoria. But you're comparing this to episode I and basically saying we're in the same circumstance. They're nothing alike. You just told me this happened before with Ep I. It did not.

If we look at the reviews listed as January 1, 2000 (though a lot or maybe all are from earlier than that - it's just some kind of default date):

http://www.rottentomatoes.com/m/star_wars_episode_i_the_phantom_menace/reviews/?page=5&sort=

there are something like 75 positive and 55 negative reviews. That's 57% positive reviews.

But it did. I was there, I was at a dot-com startup in 1999 when the film was released, I spent all my time online, and I read the exact same kinds of responses to TPM that I'm reading here. And there were people pointing out the flaws in the film, and people telling those pointing out the flaws that they were crazy.

The overwhelming response to TPM was positive, initially. It broke box office records for a reason. It wasn't liked by only 57% of the audience, it was watched over and over. People went to other films to see the trailer, then walked out before the film even ran.

How old were you guys when TPM was released? I was in my mid-20s.

 

[knapplc]

Of course. It's an apt comparison, being the first of a reboot series in this franchise. What other movie premiered after a long hiatus in the franchise?

It's a very good comparison to make if your argument is that their releases and reactions are not even close to being the same.

Wait. You're saying TPM was NOT met with euphoria when it was released?

 

[Apathy]

I really do understand the idea of rebooting the Star Wars franchise to the new generations of moviegoers. I'm not at all opposed to the idea. Would it have been so hard to throw us (the generations who did see all or most of the earlier movies) a bone containing some new information about the new characters. Not even saying it has to be a complete biography. Just something so the 30 or 40 years between VI and VII seem more connected. I don't really need to know how Han and Leia separated. It happens.....and his name is "Solo". Why not show a brief flashback when Han and Leia were talking that showed the conflict between Han and Kylo Ren? Where did KR first meet the "Dark Side" and which leader of the DS contacted him? A few more tidbits would have helped me enjoy this movie a lot more.

We still get two more movies and maybe we'll get those voids filled

 

[knapplc]

I really do understand the idea of rebooting the Star Wars franchise to the new generations of moviegoers. I'm not at all opposed to the idea. Would it have been so hard to throw us (the generations who did see all or most of the earlier movies) a bone containing some new information about the new characters. Not even saying it has to be a complete biography. Just something so the 30 or 40 years between VI and VII seem more connected. I don't really need to know how Han and Leia separated. It happens.....and his name is "Solo". Why not show a brief flashback when Han and Leia were talking that showed the conflict between Han and Kylo Ren? Where did KR first meet the "Dark Side" and which leader of the DS contacted him? A few more tidbits would have helped me enjoy this movie a lot more.

Exactly. They could have added ten more minutes to the movie - and people would have loved it - and given a far better explanation of what happened in the intervening years. I'm guessing they're planning this for the subsequent movies, but they could easily have done it here.

 

[knapplc]

I really do understand the idea of rebooting the Star Wars franchise to the new generations of moviegoers. I'm not at all opposed to the idea. Would it have been so hard to throw us (the generations who did see all or most of the earlier movies) a bone containing some new information about the new characters. Not even saying it has to be a complete biography. Just something so the 30 or 40 years between VI and VII seem more connected. I don't really need to know how Han and Leia separated. It happens.....and his name is "Solo". Why not show a brief flashback when Han and Leia were talking that showed the conflict between Han and Kylo Ren? Where did KR first meet the "Dark Side" and which leader of the DS contacted him? A few more tidbits would have helped me enjoy this movie a lot more.

We still get two more movies and maybe we'll get those voids filled

I'm guessing you're right, and since they're planning on making umpty-seven new movies, we'll probably have no end of backstory to fill in the gaps. The Rogue One series starts next year, and Episode 8 releases the year after that. Disney (I think) is going to launch a new Star Wars movie every year, with the 7-8-9 movies coming out every other year and the side-stories in between.

I can't wait to see TFA again, but I'm equally excited to see Rogue One. It'll be interesting to see how they handle going back and forth in time with the old story and the new.

 

[Apathy]

Of course there is euphoria. But you're comparing this to episode I and basically saying we're in the same circumstance. They're nothing alike. You just told me this happened before with Ep I. It did not.

If we look at the reviews listed as January 1, 2000 (though a lot or maybe all are from earlier than that - it's just some kind of default date):

http://www.rottentomatoes.com/m/star_wars_episode_i_the_phantom_menace/reviews/?page=5&sort=

there are something like 75 positive and 55 negative reviews. That's 57% positive reviews.

But it did. I was there, I was at a dot-com startup in 1999 when the film was released, I spent all my time online, and I read the exact same kinds of responses to TPM that I'm reading here. And there were people pointing out the flaws in the film, and people telling those pointing out the flaws that they were crazy.

The overwhelming response to TPM was positive, initially. It broke box office records for a reason. It wasn't liked by only 57% of the audience, it was watched over and over. People went to other films to see the trailer, then walked out before the film even ran.

How old were you guys when TPM was released? I was in my mid-20s.

If TPM was so positive how come the box office numbers say otherwise?

TPM came out on May 21, 1999, so it was a summer release with lots of kiddies out of school myself included (I finished my freshman year of high school). It opened up with 64. 8 million, 51.3 mill in week 2, 66.9 mill in week 3 and then went downhill after that. If TMP was praised in such high regards than why did it see a -20% decline from opening week to week 2? Sure it spiked back up to 66.9 mill in week 3 a +3% increase but in week 4 it only made 32.8 mill a -36% decrease.

If it was such a great film then word of mouth and reviews praising such a remarkable film would've gotten more people in the theater instead of the opposite?

The Force Awakens made 247.9 million its opening week and is projected to make around $150-$170 its second weekend. It's already the fastest film to reach a Billion in just 12 days. Word of mouth and positive reviews on a Franchise like Star Wars will produce that amount of money and records.

 

[knapplc]

If TPM was so positive how come the box office numbers say otherwise?

TPM came out on May 21, 1999, so it was a summer release with lots of kiddies out of school myself included (I finished my freshman year of high school). It opened up with 64. 8 million, 51.3 mill in week 2, 66.9 mill in week 3 and then went downhill after that. If TMP was praised in such high regards than why did it see a -20% decline from opening week to week 2? Sure it spiked back up to 66.9 mill in week 3 a +3% increase but in week 4 it only made 32.8 mill a -36% decrease.

If it was such a great film then word of mouth and reviews praising such a remarkable film would've gotten more people in the theater instead of the opposite?

The Force Awakens made 247.9 million its opening week and is projected to make around $150-$170 its second weekend. It's already the fastest film to reach a Billion in just 12 days. Word of mouth and positive reviews on a Franchise like Star Wars will produce that amount of money and records.

Are you looking at your numbers? TFA made 247 million in its first weekend, 153 million in its second weekend. That's a 38% drop from first to second weekend. The kids are out of school this weekend, too.

The Phantom Menace dropped 20% from opening weekend to second weekend. I'm not sure what you're trying to show with these numbers, but I don't think they're showing what you think they're showing.

 

[Mierin]

Of course there is euphoria. But you're comparing this to episode I and basically saying we're in the same circumstance. They're nothing alike. You just told me this happened before with Ep I. It did not.

If we look at the reviews listed as January 1, 2000 (though a lot or maybe all are from earlier than that - it's just some kind of default date):

http://www.rottentomatoes.com/m/star_wars_episode_i_the_phantom_menace/reviews/?page=5&sort=

there are something like 75 positive and 55 negative reviews. That's 57% positive reviews.

But it did. I was there, I was at a dot-com startup in 1999 when the film was released, I spent all my time online, and I read the exact same kinds of responses to TPM that I'm reading here. And there were people pointing out the flaws in the film, and people telling those pointing out the flaws that they were crazy.

The overwhelming response to TPM was positive, initially. It broke box office records for a reason. It wasn't liked by only 57% of the audience, it was watched over and over. People went to other films to see the trailer, then walked out before the film even ran.

How old were you guys when TPM was released? I was in my mid-20s.

Were you looking at random samples of fans and their reactions?

Of course there were lots of people who loved it. Of course lots of people watched it over and over. But there were also a lot of people who didn't like it. A lot bigger % of people who didn't like it than don't like TFA. Fans and reviewers. I don't think anyone is calling you crazy for pointing out the things you didn't like about the movie. I'm thinking you're ignoring what's right in front of you (and being a tad crazy) by thinking these two movies were similar in terms of reaction to those flaws when they're not close.

Of course. It's an apt comparison, being the first of a reboot series in this franchise. What other movie premiered after a long hiatus in the franchise?

It's a very good comparison to make if your argument is that their releases and reactions are not even close to being the same.

Wait. You're saying TPM was NOT met with euphoria when it was released?

I think you know that's not what I'm saying. Both had/will have reviews based on nostalgia. But TPM had a far higher percentage of negative reviews than did TFA when it came out. I've provided a link to that. Most of the links don't have dates on them but they were all from 1999 and some were right before the release date. That's where my % approval comes from. There were raving reviews but tendencies are what's important.

 

[Mierin]

I really do understand the idea of rebooting the Star Wars franchise to the new generations of moviegoers. I'm not at all opposed to the idea. Would it have been so hard to throw us (the generations who did see all or most of the earlier movies) a bone containing some new information about the new characters. Not even saying it has to be a complete biography. Just something so the 30 or 40 years between VI and VII seem more connected. I don't really need to know how Han and Leia separated. It happens.....and his name is "Solo". Why not show a brief flashback when Han and Leia were talking that showed the conflict between Han and Kylo Ren? Where did KR first meet the "Dark Side" and which leader of the DS contacted him? A few more tidbits would have helped me enjoy this movie a lot more.

We still get two more movies and maybe we'll get those voids filled

Yep. I saw this movie as a kind of passing of the torch. I'm guessing Luke will be dead by the end of the next movie and then it will be all new guys other than a little cameo stuff by Leia maybe. We'll obviously find out way more about Rey in the next one and maybe Kylo too. If we don't then, I was wrong. *shrug*

 

[zoogs]

Knapp is totally right that the prequels faded dramatically over time. How TFA fares remains to be seen. Personally, I do not feel that "go rent the 1977 movie" is an adequate reason to avoid a reboot, but understandably opinions vary.

To qualify my opinions, maybe I have a relatively low bar. Or am looking for different things. For example, I immensely enjoyed (and still do) the LOTR movies. It remains one of the top movie experiences of all time for me, and TFA vaults the new Star Wars trilogy squarely in contention. I know there are some serious critics of it, and I can get into the "what I would have liked to see" as well. But for me, it barely registers as a dent to my utter awe of the films. That's the beautifications thing about fandom, though. You will easily make people legitimately furious. And equally, people going, "how could you feel that way"? back and forth.

I don't know, it just works for me. Nothing works for everyone, but that's fine. There might be a better LOTR movie in the future and hey, a better take of Star Wars, too. But dangit, for my money this was pretty dang good. Best to date, all due respect to George Lucas.

 

[Mierin]

Knapp is totally right that the prequels faded dramatically over time. How TFA fares remains to be seen. Personally, I do not feel that "go rent the 1977 movie" is an adequate reason to avoid a reboot, but understandably opinions vary.

To qualify my opinions, maybe I have a relatively low bar. Or am looking for different things. For example, I immensely enjoyed (and still do) the LOTR movies. It remains one of the top movie experiences of all time for me, and TFA vaults the new Star Wars trilogy squarely in contention. I know there are some serious critics of it, and I can get into the "what I would have liked to see" as well. But for me, it barely registers as a dent to my utter awe of the films.

It just works for me. Nothing works for everyone, but that's fine. There might be a better LOTR movie in the future and hey, a better take of Star Wars, too. But dangit, for my money this was pretty dang good. Best to date, all due respect to George Lucas.

Cray cray

 

[Mierin]

Box Office discussion isn't too meaningful. You need to adjust for inflation, think about how many people go to movies now, how many people went to midnight showings in 1999 compared to 2015, how many people there actually are, and probably lots of other things. I kinda hate how they talk of breaking records. It's all about making the news. 1 billion is a lot of $ but adjusted for inflation maybe this isn't the most watched movie on opening weekend. I haven't looked it up.

 

[ZRod]

I really do understand the idea of rebooting the Star Wars franchise to the new generations of moviegoers. I'm not at all opposed to the idea. Would it have been so hard to throw us (the generations who did see all or most of the earlier movies) a bone containing some new information about the new characters. Not even saying it has to be a complete biography. Just something so the 30 or 40 years between VI and VII seem more connected. I don't really need to know how Han and Leia separated. It happens.....and his name is "Solo". Why not show a brief flashback when Han and Leia were talking that showed the conflict between Han and Kylo Ren? Where did KR first meet the "Dark Side" and which leader of the DS contacted him? A few more tidbits would have helped me enjoy this movie a lot more.

Exactly. They could have added ten more minutes to the movie - and people would have loved it - and given a far better explanation of what happened in the intervening years. I'm guessing they're planning this for the subsequent movies, but they could easily have done it here.

The funny thing is with the way the movie was paced, you could have added another 20 minutes and it would have felt perfect. It also would have greatly helped the story.
Just so you know, I'm exactly where you are Knap. I wasn't expecting much from this film, so I enjoyed it quite a but, but it could and should have been so much more. Seriously we didn't even need the major plot device to tell this story! I'd give it a +B overall. That's pretty good to me.