[Spoilers] Star Wars Episode VII The Force Awakens Spoiler Thread

[zoogs]

For those primarily looking for "a total sequel about happens next to Luke and company", there's the massive Expanded Universe for that. And (/ducks) that's about as interesting as the typical endlessly sprawl of a comic book/video game universe. I'm sure all the plot developments there are fascinating, new, and worthwhile if you want to dive into it.

The EU is no more though...

I think that was pretty necessary. Books and movies serve different roles. The EU is able to fill in *everything*, which is what a lot of people might be looking for, really: full details on what happens next after the original movies they've already enjoyed. There's not necessarily another "Coming of Age" story in there, or if there is, it's a little part of the Giant Everything that sprawling backstory universes tend to be.

I haven't read much of it myself, but I've spent many a day wandering down the rabbit hole on Wookiepedia, learning about all these characters, falling to the dark side, rising back to the light, etc, and every possible combination in between.

In retrospect, I think this is the biggest reason the prequels failed to really register. A lot of the prequels are really good fun, and they feature some great portrayals (at least in my opinion!). I'm glad they did them and brought those characters to life, but it feels a lot like taking reams of backstory and putting that to screen. Sometimes stuff is better suited to the domain of side novel releases, video games, or animated TV series.

I mean, "Clone Wars" was pretty acclaimed, wasn't it? But after seeing TFA, it just seems so clear to me how far from being a true Star Wars movie those prequels were. There are no protagonists. And if you seek to fill in every blank, answer every question, offer every origin story, it's bound to be a little un-fulfilling.

 

[zoogs]

Anyhow, if Plagueis knew about the prophecy it makes sense he wouldn't want to be in charge while Anakin was around and set Palpatine up to take the fall.

Yeah, it would make sense, but I'd hate that, personally. They need to take this story in new directions. Ep4-5-6 were a nice chapter in the Star Wars universe, and they should be self-contained. Not sure how I'd feel about "...and actually, here was the guy pulling the strings all along! They never got him!" They don't need that, just like they don't need new heros and heroines to all be offspring of previous characters to be significant.

/wow, sorry for all the postspam! I guess I really like talking about this movie

 

[knapplc]

All of that was quite intentional. At this point, nearly four decades removed, it has to serve the roles both of a sequel and a reboot. This movie is about re-establishing what Star Wars is, including to a generation of fans that don't know what Star Wars ever was (yes, the prequels were that far away from it!). I guess a little similarly, I couldn't even tell you if J.J. Abrams did the same thing with his Star Trek movies, because I hadn't really seen any Star Trek previously.

It does that, spectacularly IMO. In a lot of ways, this is poised to be a much better execution of The Monomyth than the original. Or at least a more modern one.

The only reason that would make sense is if the original trilogy weren't accessible, but you can go to any Wal-Mart - heck, any CVS - and buy the movies right now. Those stories are as accessible as the nearest Blu-Ray player.

The gripe so many have about this movie is that they had no need to rehash the storylines. TonyStalloni's recap was spot-on, and exposes the glaring awfulness of rehashing the story, and that leaves out a ton of parallels.

This movie will go down in history as the Milli Vanilli of sequels. It's half lip-synch, half original. Nothing about it is ground-breaking, nothing is fresh.

We won't get better movies if we don't demand better movies. Just sitting back accepting whatever they produce will get us more Jar-Jar Binks crap. Expect more.

 

[Mierin]

All of that was quite intentional. At this point, nearly four decades removed, it has to serve the roles both of a sequel and a reboot. This movie is about re-establishing what Star Wars is, including to a generation of fans that don't know what Star Wars ever was (yes, the prequels were that far away from it!). I guess a little similarly, I couldn't even tell you if J.J. Abrams did the same thing with his Star Trek movies, because I hadn't really seen any Star Trek previously.

It does that, spectacularly IMO. In a lot of ways, this is poised to be a much better execution of The Monomyth than the original. Or at least a more modern one.

The only reason that would make sense is if the original trilogy weren't accessible, but you can go to any Wal-Mart - heck, any CVS - and buy the movies right now. Those stories are as accessible as the nearest Blu-Ray player.

The gripe so many have about this movie is that they had no need to rehash the storylines. TonyStalloni's recap was spot-on, and exposes the glaring awfulness of rehashing the story, and that leaves out a ton of parallels.

This movie will go down in history as the Milli Vanilli of sequels. It's half lip-synch, half original. Nothing about it is ground-breaking, nothing is fresh.

We won't get better movies if we don't demand better movies. Just sitting back accepting whatever they produce will get us more Jar-Jar Binks crap. Expect more.

Hardly anyone has that gripe. You're in a small minority.

 

[Mierin]

Thought of another thing I wanted to talk about.

A lot of people are saying Kylo must be very untrained or just isn't strong because Rey beat him. But he was shot by Chewy's crossbow before fighting her. The same crossbow that was knocking people 6 feet into the air earlier in the movie.

 

[knapplc]

Hardly anyone has that gripe. You're in a small minority.

Today, that's true. When the prequels came out, Jar-Jar wasn't universally reviled. Everyone was so agog with a new Star Wars movie that they just accepted it. It wasn't until a few months later when the hype settled down that people started hating him, and young Anakin, and all the hokey BS in the prequels.

That's going to happen here. Once the euphoria of a new Star Wars movie wears off, people are going to start critically examining it. I guess I'll just have to wait until everyone calms down to have rational conversation about the movie.

 

[Apathy]

All of that was quite intentional. At this point, nearly four decades removed, it has to serve the roles both of a sequel and a reboot. This movie is about re-establishing what Star Wars is, including to a generation of fans that don't know what Star Wars ever was (yes, the prequels were that far away from it!). I guess a little similarly, I couldn't even tell you if J.J. Abrams did the same thing with his Star Trek movies, because I hadn't really seen any Star Trek previously.

It does that, spectacularly IMO. In a lot of ways, this is poised to be a much better execution of The Monomyth than the original. Or at least a more modern one.

The only reason that would make sense is if the original trilogy weren't accessible, but you can go to any Wal-Mart - heck, any CVS - and buy the movies right now. Those stories are as accessible as the nearest Blu-Ray player.

The gripe so many have about this movie is that they had no need to rehash the storylines. TonyStalloni's recap was spot-on, and exposes the glaring awfulness of rehashing the story, and that leaves out a ton of parallels.

This movie will go down in history as the Milli Vanilli of sequels. It's half lip-synch, half original. Nothing about it is ground-breaking, nothing is fresh.

We won't get better movies if we don't demand better movies. Just sitting back accepting whatever they produce will get us more Jar-Jar Binks crap. Expect more.

Are you talking about the 5% who didn't like the movie according to RottenTomatoes.com

With that said, I think you and a few others are in the minority who have a problem with this movie

 

[knapplc]

Oi, jeez.

 

[Redux]

Snoke has been confirmed as very very old. How that ends up playing out is anyones guess at this point. My money is on him being Plagueis or someone related to him etc.

I can't wait to go see TFA again. Anyone bitching about it borrowing story arcs needs to read Zoog's post above. The reboot/sequel ideal was done perfectly. I honestly can't say enough good about it.

 

[Mierin]

Hardly anyone has that gripe. You're in a small minority.

Today, that's true. When the prequels came out, Jar-Jar wasn't universally reviled. Everyone was so agog with a new Star Wars movie that they just accepted it. It wasn't until a few months later when the hype settled down that people started hating him, and young Anakin, and all the hokey BS in the prequels.
That's going to happen here. Once the euphoria of a new Star Wars movie wears off, people are going to start critically examining it. I guess I'll just have to wait until everyone calms down to have rational conversation about the movie.

No, it's not going to happen here. You have a bad memory of Episode I reactions. This is not anything close to being on that level. Just accept that your opinion, although it's valid, is never going to be a widely held one.
Or at the very least, it's a minor complaint but something that most aren't truly bothered by. Not a "gripe" and not on the level of Jar Jar Binks or Anakin's romance.

 

[Redux]

All of that was quite intentional. At this point, nearly four decades removed, it has to serve the roles both of a sequel and a reboot. This movie is about re-establishing what Star Wars is, including to a generation of fans that don't know what Star Wars ever was (yes, the prequels were that far away from it!). I guess a little similarly, I couldn't even tell you if J.J. Abrams did the same thing with his Star Trek movies, because I hadn't really seen any Star Trek previously.

It does that, spectacularly IMO. In a lot of ways, this is poised to be a much better execution of The Monomyth than the original. Or at least a more modern one.

The only reason that would make sense is if the original trilogy weren't accessible, but you can go to any Wal-Mart - heck, any CVS - and buy the movies right now. Those stories are as accessible as the nearest Blu-Ray player.

The gripe so many have about this movie is that they had no need to rehash the storylines. TonyStalloni's recap was spot-on, and exposes the glaring awfulness of rehashing the story, and that leaves out a ton of parallels.

This movie will go down in history as the Milli Vanilli of sequels. It's half lip-synch, half original. Nothing about it is ground-breaking, nothing is fresh.

We won't get better movies if we don't demand better movies. Just sitting back accepting whatever they produce will get us more Jar-Jar Binks crap. Expect more.

From the football team to an epic Star Wars sequel you are just coming off grumpy lately.

 

[knapplc]

LOL OK

 

[Mierin]

I've seen Episode VII 3 times in the past 7 days. I've seen Episode I 3 times in the past 16 years.

 

[knapplc]

http://www.dorkly.com/post/70899/this-was-the-reaction-to-the-phantom-menace-trailer-debut-in-1998

http://editorial.rottentomatoes.com/article/10-years-of-star-wars-episode-i-the-phantom-menace/

 

[knapplc]

Here's a review of fan reaction to The Phantom Menace from 1999.

The initial reaction of the fans to Star Wars: Episode One - The Phantom Menace is very predictable. The initial wave of fans (the line-dwellers) will emerge from the theater glowing about the film, whether or not it is good at all. The sheer fact that it is "STAR WARS" (combined with the fact that they have spent a good portion of their lives pining for this moment) will outweigh all faults.

Then, again without regard to the quality of the film, the tide will begin to turn. People who have been building the film up in their minds for the past sixteen years (and further prompted by the initial raves) will be disappointed. Even the most perfect film in the universe will not be able to live up to the heightened expectations (and there are hints that Episode One won't quite be perfect...see below).

The fan population will disolve into two camps: the rabid (primarily younger) supporters of the film, and the haters. The Rabid will polemically claim that Episode One is not only the best Star Wars film, but perhaps the best film ever. Some may say this out of denial, but most will probably (in their limited experiences) actually believe this. The Rabid are already trumpeting the film's success (weeks before its premiere), and are quick to attack anyone who suggests the contrary.

The Haters will nitpick and criticize the film to death. In part, some will be bitter that the film didn't reach their astronomical expectations. Some will join the Haters as a reflex against the gigantic hype/promotional machine that is at work. And others are just born contrarians.

In any case, it will take quite a while for all of this reflexive loving/hating to die down and for a fair judgment of the film to take place. However, in the meantime, the Haters will rule the day. Why? First of all, their numbers will be strongest during the first few weeks of the film's run. Overwhelming expectations be fresh in their mind, and, compared with the Rabid raves, everything will fall short. The Haters will also provail due to the nature of their opposition. Even those who genuinely liked the film will be lumped in with the Rabid, whose outlandish claims will be easy to dismiss.

Apparently I'm being lumped into the "haters" group (has that term been around for 16+ years? Wow!), which is absurd but you guys label my reaction however you want.