[Spoilers] Star Wars Episode VII The Force Awakens Spoiler Thread

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The Phantom Menace and The Force Awakens are almost unrecognizable as being in the same film series. You are definitely in the minority. The love for TFA is not going anywhere like I assume you are predicting.

 
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knapplc said:
Here's a review of fan reaction to The Phantom Menace from 1999.

The initial reaction of the fans to Star Wars: Episode One - The Phantom Menace is very predictable. The initial wave of fans (the line-dwellers) will emerge from the theater glowing about the film, whether or not it is good at all. The sheer fact that it is "STAR WARS" (combined with the fact that they have spent a good portion of their lives pining for this moment) will outweigh all faults.

Then, again without regard to the quality of the film, the tide will begin to turn. People who have been building the film up in their minds for the past sixteen years (and further prompted by the initial raves) will be disappointed. Even the most perfect film in the universe will not be able to live up to the heightened expectations (and there are hints that Episode One won't quite be perfect...see below).

The fan population will disolve into two camps: the rabid (primarily younger) supporters of the film, and the haters. The Rabid will polemically claim that Episode One is not only the best Star Wars film, but perhaps the best film ever. Some may say this out of denial, but most will probably (in their limited experiences) actually believe this. The Rabid are already trumpeting the film's success (weeks before its premiere), and are quick to attack anyone who suggests the contrary.

The Haters will nitpick and criticize the film to death. In part, some will be bitter that the film didn't reach their astronomical expectations. Some will join the Haters as a reflex against the gigantic hype/promotional machine that is at work. And others are just born contrarians.

In any case, it will take quite a while for all of this reflexive loving/hating to die down and for a fair judgment of the film to take place. However, in the meantime, the Haters will rule the day. Why? First of all, their numbers will be strongest during the first few weeks of the film's run. Overwhelming expectations be fresh in their mind, and, compared with the Rabid raves, everything will fall short. The Haters will also provail due to the nature of their opposition. Even those who genuinely liked the film will be lumped in with the Rabid, whose outlandish claims will be easy to dismiss.
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Apparently I'm being lumped into the "haters" group (has that term been around for 16+ years? Wow!), which is absurd but you guys label my reaction however you want.
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Not sure why you're saying "you guys" since the only person I see labeling you as anything (grumpy) is Redux. I don't care that you have a gripe but you're not correct that lots of people have it/are upset about it and it's not close to the level of dislike for Jar Jar or Anakin/Padme or how bad those two things were. You're ignoring clear evidence to the contrary.
 
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I am predicting TFA will be regarded as falling somewhere in the realm of ANH & ROTJ in popularity, but not anywhere near as high as TESB, which remains to this day the best of the seven films. TFA is worlds better than the prequels, which, for all their pretty CGI are really weak on storytelling.

I don't know why it's so controversial to expect Disney, the wealthiest storytellers on the planet, to tell me a new, original story. I also don't know why pointing out the rehash of storylines, which are ridiculously obvious, should be shouted down. It's possible to like this movie immensely (which I do) and still have legitimate gripes (which I do).

The fact that this is met with ZZZZZOOMG YOU ARE SUCH A GRUMP is not only historically repetitive, it's kinda silly. But whatever.

 
Moiraine said:
Not sure why you're saying "you guys" since the only person I see labeling you as anything (grumpy) is Redux. I don't care that you have a gripe but you're not correct that lots of people have it/are upset about it and it's not close to the level of dislike for Jar Jar or Anakin/Padme or how bad those two things were. You're ignoring clear evidence to the contrary.
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And you're ignoring that this has all happened before (just like TFA's plot), as I have pointed out. Those aren't points for debate, they're historic references. This initial euphoria also happened with TPM. It's early - TFA hasn't been in theaters a month yet - but you're telling me it's not going to be critiqued. It will be. Let the initial wave die down a bit.

 
knapplc said:
I am predicting TFA will be regarded as falling somewhere in the realm of ANH & ROTJ in popularity, but not anywhere near as high as TESB, which remains to this day the best of the seven films. TFA is worlds better than the prequels, which, for all their pretty CGI are really weak on storytelling.

I don't know why it's so controversial to expect Disney, the wealthiest storytellers on the planet, to tell me a new, original story. I also don't know why pointing out the rehash of storylines, which are ridiculously obvious, should be shouted down. It's possible to like this movie immensely (which I do) and still have legitimate gripes (which I do).

The fact that this is met with ZZZZZOOMG YOU ARE SUCH A GRUMP is not only historically repetitive, it's kinda silly. But whatever.
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Is being called grumpy really equivalent to being shouted down to you?

I've said your opinion is legitimate but you're completely off on how widely agreed upon it is, both in having the gripe itself and how important the problem is in the overall scheme of things when it comes to the movie.

 
Moiraine said:
Is being called grumpy really equivalent to being shouted down to you?
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Yes. Everyone who doesn't initially agree with me in a near knee-jerk reaction is a cyberbully. This is patently obvious and I don't understand the confusion.

 
knapplc said:
Moiraine said:
Not sure why you're saying "you guys" since the only person I see labeling you as anything (grumpy) is Redux. I don't care that you have a gripe but you're not correct that lots of people have it/are upset about it and it's not close to the level of dislike for Jar Jar or Anakin/Padme or how bad those two things were. You're ignoring clear evidence to the contrary.
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And you're ignoring that this has all happened before (just like TFA's plot), as I have pointed out. Those aren't points for debate, they're historic references. This initial euphoria also happened with TPM. It's early - TFA hasn't been in theaters a month yet - but you're telling me it's not going to be critiqued. It will be. Let the initial wave die down a bit.
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I'm not ignoring it, because it hasn't happened before. Plenty of people including myself didn't love Ep I when they first saw it. Lots of reviewers didn't have positive reviews for Ep I before/when it came out. You have a few anecdotal reviews and some people excited to be on camera. This doesn't compare to that.

 
Moiraine said:
knapplc said:
Moiraine said:
Not sure why you're saying "you guys" since the only person I see labeling you as anything (grumpy) is Redux. I don't care that you have a gripe but you're not correct that lots of people have it/are upset about it and it's not close to the level of dislike for Jar Jar or Anakin/Padme or how bad those two things were. You're ignoring clear evidence to the contrary.
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And you're ignoring that this has all happened before (just like TFA's plot), as I have pointed out. Those aren't points for debate, they're historic references. This initial euphoria also happened with TPM. It's early - TFA hasn't been in theaters a month yet - but you're telling me it's not going to be critiqued. It will be. Let the initial wave die down a bit.
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I'm not ignoring it, because it hasn't happened before. Plenty of people including myself didn't love Ep I when they first saw it. Lots of reviewers didn't have positive reviews for Ep I before/when it came out. You have a few anecdotal reviews and some people excited to be on camera. This doesn't compare to that.
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Do you think this movie is being judged dispassionately, or do you think the initial euphoria of the first Star Wars movie in years is still prevalent? Because if you think we're in the dispassionate reflexive stage, I think you've wrestled one too many Gundarks.

 
I'm really trying to play around with this fun topic, but I'm not getting the impression that's the case with everyone. There seem to be varying levels of seriousness here.

 
Are you really trying to back up your argument by comparing The Phantom Menace to The Force Awakens?

I think its past your bed time Knapp

 
knapplc said:
Moiraine said:
knapplc said:
Moiraine said:
Not sure why you're saying "you guys" since the only person I see labeling you as anything (grumpy) is Redux. I don't care that you have a gripe but you're not correct that lots of people have it/are upset about it and it's not close to the level of dislike for Jar Jar or Anakin/Padme or how bad those two things were. You're ignoring clear evidence to the contrary.
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And you're ignoring that this has all happened before (just like TFA's plot), as I have pointed out. Those aren't points for debate, they're historic references. This initial euphoria also happened with TPM. It's early - TFA hasn't been in theaters a month yet - but you're telling me it's not going to be critiqued. It will be. Let the initial wave die down a bit.
Click to expand...
I'm not ignoring it, because it hasn't happened before. Plenty of people including myself didn't love Ep I when they first saw it. Lots of reviewers didn't have positive reviews for Ep I before/when it came out. You have a few anecdotal reviews and some people excited to be on camera. This doesn't compare to that.
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Do you think this movie is being judged dispassionately, or do you think the initial euphoria of the first Star Wars movie in years is still prevalent? Because if you think we're in the dispassionate reflexive stage, I think you've wrestled one too many Gundarks.
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Of course there is euphoria. But you're comparing this to episode I and basically saying we're in the same circumstance. They're nothing alike. You just told me this happened before with Ep I. It did not.
If we look at the reviews listed as January 1, 2000 (though a lot or maybe all are from earlier than that - it's just some kind of default date):

http://www.rottentomatoes.com/m/star_wars_episode_i_the_phantom_menace/reviews/?page=5&sort=

there are something like 75 positive and 55 negative reviews. That's 57% positive reviews.

Writing off positive reactions makes sense with a 57% positive rating. It does not make sense with a 95% positive rating

 
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Of course. It's an apt comparison, being the first of a reboot series in this franchise. What other movie premiered after a long hiatus in the franchise?

 
knapplc said:
Of course. It's an apt comparison, being the first of a reboot series in this franchise. What other movie premiered after a long hiatus in the franchise?
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It's a very good comparison to make if your argument is that their releases and reactions are not even close to being the same.

 
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