H2h

Interesting, analytics have been going strong in MLB for awhile. The Warriors Rockets were leaders in analytics in the NBA, I'm all in, another thing to help our coaches put the players in the best position to win.

There's a fine line between Davidson and Davison.

Lol

Stanton's high school highlights weren't that impressive IMO (hurt Sr year I know). Just didn't scream 4 star. Compared to the tapes of guys like Jamal Turner, Brion Carnes, and Darlington's Jr year film, Stanton's looks like JV.

But it's only a highlight tape so it probably doesn't mean jack anyway.

 

 

 

But, I agree with you that 9-3 is a reasonable expectation, and that should we win 8 or 7, it doesn't mean that it won't get better. If you want to, think of that as a step backwards, I guess, but the way I see it is that Year One *can* be a bumpy transition for any coach for any number of reasons. If this we agree on, then our positions here are the same.

 

This seems to be thrown around a lot but I'm not sure I buy it. Obviously the biggest hurdle for Riley is finding a QB for his system but many would argue that our QB play has been holding us back for the last several years and we've won at least nine. And it's repeated often that Riley will adjust to his players. And, as saunders aluded to, Pelini came in with his unqualified staff and installed the most complicated defense known to man and made huge strides in year one.

 

When this came up awhile ago, my contention was it really didn't hold water with history. I asked for any examples of coaches who went backwards in year one but recovered to have significantly more success than their predecessor. Despite many examples being thrown out, the only one that really fit that criteria was Bobby Petrino at Arkansas. They took a big step back his first year but he recovered to have a couple pretty good seasons by Arky standards. But if the transition year is really that much of a worry, I would think there would be examples all over the place. But as far as I can see, if you struggle out of the gate it more than likely just means that it's not going to happen.

 

Mike Shula went 6-6 in his last regular season at Alabama (fired before they lost the bowl game). Nick Saban went 6-6 during his first regular season at Alabama (won his first bowl game). Seems things got better.

 

 

Yep. So he didn't get worse in his first year. Like I said.

 

So going 6-6 with a loss to Lousiana-Monroe at home, and four straight losses to end the regular season isn't a rocky start just because they didn't lose one more game then the year before? Correct me if I'm wrong but that's an FCS team beating a team that won 10 games two years prior.

How about we don't worry about our record this year and look for improvement throughout the season, that will mean a hell of a lot more than #9 wins.

 

But, I agree with you that 9-3 is a reasonable expectation, and that should we win 8 or 7, it doesn't mean that it won't get better. If you want to, think of that as a step backwards, I guess, but the way I see it is that Year One *can* be a bumpy transition for any coach for any number of reasons. If this we agree on, then our positions here are the same.

 

This seems to be thrown around a lot but I'm not sure I buy it. Obviously the biggest hurdle for Riley is finding a QB for his system but many would argue that our QB play has been holding us back for the last several years and we've won at least nine. And it's repeated often that Riley will adjust to his players. And, as saunders aluded to, Pelini came in with his unqualified staff and installed the most complicated defense known to man and made huge strides in year one.

 

When this came up awhile ago, my contention was it really didn't hold water with history. I asked for any examples of coaches who went backwards in year one but recovered to have significantly more success than their predecessor. Despite many examples being thrown out, the only one that really fit that criteria was Bobby Petrino at Arkansas. They took a big step back his first year but he recovered to have a couple pretty good seasons by Arky standards. But if the transition year is really that much of a worry, I would think there would be examples all over the place. But as far as I can see, if you struggle out of the gate it more than likely just means that it's not going to happen.

 

Mike Shula went 6-6 in his last regular season at Alabama (fired before they lost the bowl game). Nick Saban went 6-6 during his first regular season at Alabama (won his first bowl game). Seems things got better.

Does anybody remember the start of that national title game? The LSU defense was gashed for two long TD runs... familiar.

 

 

 

 

How many wanted Saban "held accountable" after the game?

 

 

 

 

And they aren't.

held accountable for what? losing 4 games a year? he has not done that. not winning championships? he has done that. the comparison really makes no sense. especially since you got the factual basis wrong in the first place.

We're talking about one game scenarios. So, your point about 4 loss seasons is a red herring. I was off by 4 points, so crucify me. My original point stands.

That a 21 point victory is close?

 

It was a close game until the last few minutes. It's the same thing as the naive statements by some that Alabama got Blown out by OU in the Sugar Bowl. OU tacked on a scoop and score TD in the last minute.

 

It wasn't a close game. Alabama scored to go up 18 with just under 12min to go in the fourth. A blowout by your metric being that it is 3 scores.

 

 

The biggest factor, by far, of course is Wisconsin's dramatic improvement running the ball as the season went on. They couldn't even run it on mid-major and FCS teams at the beginning of the year (the first time we played them), and were one of the best rushing teams in the nation towards the end (the 2nd time we played them).

 

Late in the season, just before the CCG, they played Michigan State (19 yards, 0.5 per carry), Ohio State (206 yards, 3.7 per carry including OT), and Penn State (158 yards, 3.7 per carry including OT). They didn't improve that much as the season went on, they just got to play Purdue (467 yards, 8.2 per carry) and Indiana (564 yards, 8.8 per carry).

 

Yeah but Wisconsin wasn't even trying the last three weeks of the season, remember, they were spending all their time getting ready for Nebraska and developing the super-secret jet sweep that they hadn't run a single time all season!

Not to derail this topic, but did nobody else listen to the segments where PJ was very critical of Taylor? He said that the team already trusts Tommy more than they did Taylor. I believe that was said towards the end of segment 2 and discussed more at the beginning of the 3rd segment, but I'm going off of memory on that. And there was more he said in other segments.

But he was a freshman last year pressed into service rather unexpectedly. So... to have expected much more than we saw last year out of Tommie would have been fairly unreasonable. No one should expect an average-level QB performance (against major college QB standards) from a freshman who was not the intended starter who was thrust in after injury to the #1 guy.

 

 

Taylor Martinez and Cody Green never had performances close to that bad their freshman years. Danny Etling at Purdue, Zach Kline at Cal, Jake Waters at Kansas State, Baker Mayfield at Texas Tech, and Trevor Knight at Oklahoma are a few examples of other new freshman quarterbacks that didn't have any performances that bad (Jake Waters was a juco sophomore*)

 

He did some really nice things but some really terrible things too. He's got a long ways to go.

I have to slightly disagree. In 2010 a healthy Taylor led the Nebraska offense to 17 points against South Dakota State. His stats might not have been as bad as Tommie's were, but that game you could really tell Taylor was a freshman. Probably the worst healthy-Taylor game he ever played. Probably.

That was 2012 we beat him at Arky State

It doesn't ever let me quote people anymore for some reason

Correct me if I'm wrong but I believe Gus is a 2nd year head coach, first year at Auburn. There are talented coaches out there.

Or he doesn't want to put himself in the exact situation that the Florida AD put himself in by opening up his mouth too soon.

Sorry that was a response to why Shawn wouldn't offer a statement of support.

The Fighting Illini through almost a season and a half have yet to beat one single B1G team.

If by a season and a half of Big Ten ball, you mean a season and one game. Yes.

 

No, the Illini haven't won a Big Ten game since 10-8-2011. We're talking about a team that won all of two games last year. That's why people aren't that impressed.

They also gave Washington a pretty good game in Washington.....Washington also just went punch for punch with Stanford.

I didn't watch the Illini vs. Washington game, but a quick look at the box score shows the Huskies dominated. 615 yards to the Illini's 327. I know it's about points, but that looks like domination on paper. And that game was in Illinois.

The Fighting Illini through almost a season and a half have yet to beat one single B1G team.

If by a season and a half of Big Ten ball, you mean a season and one game. Yes.

 

No, the Illini haven't won a Big Ten game since 10-8-2011. We're talking about a team that won all of two games last year. That's why people aren't that impressed.

I'm still surprised how many people seem to think there is no way we can win less than 8 or 9 games. Remember how close we were to 7-5 last year? With Taylor's health in question, Beck's inconsistency, and a young defense currently ranked 105th in the country, it isn't hard to imagine a 7-5 season. Look at Purdue, Minnesota and Illinois. They aren't the bottom feeders most of us predicted. If this team doesn't bounce back psychologically, it could get ugly. We could conceivably be underdogs in four straight games this season. When's the last time that happened? 2007 Missouri through Texas maybe, otherwise you'd have to go back to the early 60s I imagine.

 

I'm predicting 8-4, hoping for 9-3 and have Kool-Aid stored in the fridge to possibly get my hopes back toward 10-2. But 7-5 would seem to me an entirely reasonable prediction.

No one is saying there's no way it cant happen. We (because I'm one of them) just happen to think it wont happen. It's speculation and opinion-not one bit different than yours (cue "I'm a realist" comment)

 

I just wish the "realists" would come back and admit when they are wrong like last year after UCLA and OSU when we were going to go 7-5 and we went 10-2. Or, after Wis. and Wyoming when Georgia and UCLA were going to hang 70 and 800 yards on Nebraska.

Because 600 yards 45 points and 500 yards 41 points are something to cheer? What a strange detail to be hung up on.

I'm daring you mods. Do it.

It's just disappointing to me that our best assets on offense, WR core, can't be fully utilized with Martinez at QB.

I don't think we learned anything. But over the next few weeks we will learn how creative the excuses can get.

Don't worry, the Kool-Aid crew and their leader will tell us how much better we are after we smash the Jack Rabbits next week.

This is a bad football team (NE), I have been a supporter of Bo but I am done he will be gone this year we will be lucky to win 6 games this year!

You probably said the same thing last year after UCLA and still bi*ched after the 14 pt. loss to Georgia.

LOL. We only lost by 14 party in the streets!!!

I learned we're lucky that we're not still in the Big 12. Our pass defense has been severely overrated due to teams running at will at us and the Big 10 being a horrible passing conference.

Hey I hope you're right man. It would be great if he is that good. All I know is that there's no shortage of talent at the position right now. At any of the skill positions.

This thread is really weird to me. A true freshman redshirts and people are wondering what went wrong. This is what should have happened with Heard, Abdullah, and Green. I'm guessing Taylor just happened to be mature enough to handle taking a redshirt. I recall it being said that Heard and Green insisted on playing in their freshmen years and that it was their decision. The only time we needed both of them was in the diamond package, which we rarely used. And IIRC it was never both Heard and Green anyway...

. Cause he's that good. Best RB this university has signed in over a decade IMO. He doesn't tear his ACL he's a 5 star no questions asked...and he doesn't come here.

 

This is my opinion, not only based off film of the way he runs the ball and his skill set, but also his work ethic, and freakish strength.

 

Not saying you're wrong, but 24/7, ESPN, Scout, and Rivals all disagree with you. They don't think he's the best running back NU signed this last class, let alone in over a decade.

 

Read again. He tore his ACL. Watch some film. Do some research. Come to your own conclusion. Don't be a star gazer.

I can read fine. You said if he doesn't tear his ACL he's a 5 star. Whether he's a 5 star or not has no bearing on how good of a player he is or can be. Just because he hypothetically could have been a 5 star doesn't mean he's the best RB we've signed in a decade, ex: Marlon Lucky. Who's star gazing now? I've seen his film, he looks solid, but I'm not throwing anyone into "best at his position in last decade" category till we see him play against BCS level opponents.

This thread is really weird to me. A true freshman redshirts and people are wondering what went wrong. This is what should have happened with Heard, Abdullah, and Green. I'm guessing Taylor just happened to be mature enough to handle taking a redshirt. I recall it being said that Heard and Green insisted on playing in their freshmen years and that it was their decision. The only time we needed both of them was in the diamond package, which we rarely used. And IIRC it was never both Heard and Green anyway...

. Cause he's that good. Best RB this university has signed in over a decade IMO. He doesn't tear his ACL he's a 5 star no questions asked...and he doesn't come here.

 

This is my opinion, not only based off film of the way he runs the ball and his skill set, but also his work ethic, and freakish strength.

 

Not saying you're wrong, but 24/7, ESPN, Scout, and Rivals all disagree with you. They don't think he's the best running back NU signed this last class, let alone in over a decade.

 

There have been many around the program that have said he is and I agree with them.

Like Who?

This thread is really weird to me. A true freshman redshirts and people are wondering what went wrong. This is what should have happened with Heard, Abdullah, and Green. I'm guessing Taylor just happened to be mature enough to handle taking a redshirt. I recall it being said that Heard and Green insisted on playing in their freshmen years and that it was their decision. The only time we needed both of them was in the diamond package, which we rarely used. And IIRC it was never both Heard and Green anyway...

. Cause he's that good. Best RB this university has signed in over a decade IMO. He doesn't tear his ACL he's a 5 star no questions asked...and he doesn't come here.

 

This is my opinion, not only based off film of the way he runs the ball and his skill set, but also his work ethic, and freakish strength.

Not saying you're wrong, but 24/7, ESPN, Scout, and Rivals all disagree with you. They don't think he's the best running back NU signed this last class, let alone in over a decade.