Oade

Tangent from my previous posts.

On Friday at work, my openly gay boss came up to me and told me a joke about pedo priests.

Of course I try to live a Catholic lifestyle, so I just had to tell him "thats not funny, it's dumb", and walk away for a little cool down.

It was basically the end of the day on Friday, so I decided if I'm going to raise hell with HR, I'd do it on Monday in I still feel compelled.

I don't think I will, Lord knows I've told dumb jokes before too. But never a negative gay joke to a gay guy. I seriously doubt that I  would be treated the same afterwards if I were to do that.

#weird time for Christians

Just now, BlitzFirst said:

 

 

Go find those Christian quotes that prove the founders of our country wanted the Constitution to be Christian please.  You made the claim you could, thus I'd like you to prove it instead of just claiming it.

You. I didn't say they "wanted" it to be Christian. It is Christian though.

11 minutes ago, Frott Scost said:

 

I have examined all the known superstitions of the world, and I do not find in our particular superstition of christianity one redeeming feature. They are all alike founded on fable and mythology. -Thomas Jefferson

 

Christianity neither is, nor ever was part of the common law. -Thomas Jefferson

 

Christianity is the most perverted system ever shone on man. -Thomas Jefferson

 

The goverment of the United States is not in any sense founded on the christian religion. -John Adams

 

All national institutions of churches whether jewish, christian or turkish appear to me no other than human inventions set up to terrify and enslave mankind and monopolize power and profit. -Thomas Payne

 

Religion and govt. will both exist in greater purity the less they are mixed together. -James Madison

 

The way to see faith is to shut the eye of reason. -Ben Franklin

 

Along with these quotes that CLEARLY show the US was not founded on the christian religion, the ONLY time religion is even mentioned in the constitution is in the first amendment: congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof. Nowhere else in the US Constitution is religion or christianity mentioned. 

Yeah, no, I read it the first time. It was a dumb post then too.

I'm not one to quote others, I'd rather go back and forth with dumb jokes tbh.

Those quotes don't clearly show anything other than we all have personal political and religious views. Even way back when... I can go find some pro Christian quotes too, but you'd forget them as quickly as I'm going to forget yours.

3 minutes ago, Nebfanatic said:

This isn't what I'm saying but you're a pro at misconstruing the whole point. I'm not going to argue with you. The Constitution isn't Christian any more than it is Buddist, Islamic or anything else, thats all I'm really trying to say and I'll leave it at that 

Sure it is, but ok, I'm tired of chatting too. You have a good evening.

11 minutes ago, Nebfanatic said:

Not by a politician, that is unless you want the Koran applied as well. Not sure how the Constitution not being a christian constitution affects any of that other stuff. Do you work in government? Do you make government decisions off the basis of your faith? If not then you can do whatever you please concerning your faith. Isn't freedom of religion wonderful?

Unless I want the Koran applied as well? Is that the Democratic fear mongering/propaganda seeping through? Do you assume I'm against non Christians from having a vote/voice?

Plenty of politicians have been sworn in on the Koran, because ya know, God has a place in American politics. 

Is a politician supposed to give up their religions when they're voted into office? If so I'll let you tell the Jews and Muslims to not wear their religious cap and scarves during business hours.... Of course they can vote and lead with their religious views (might be why they were elected in the first place Idk), so long as they don't infringe on the rights of others....  But again, that's one of the bedrocks of Christianity.

12 minutes ago, Nebfanatic said:

No its definitely not. Those values that the Constitution are based on are pretty universal across many religions around the globe. Have you ever heard of seperation of church and state? That was very important to our Founding Fathers, and with good reason.

Yes separate from religious bodies, like the Vatican.... Not separate from citizens freely reflecting their religious morals and culture upon their vote.

No room whatsoever for Christians having Christian culture affect their vote? No way should the bible be applied in American politics?.... Am I only supposed to be Christian from 7-11am on Sunday mornings? And not at all on voting day?..... Bizarro world, I tell ya.

4 minutes ago, Moiraine said:

 

 

You quoted BlitzFirst. He didn't mention a political party or even any policies by either party. It's obvious from his post he doesn't want either political party to do this. Not everyone who replies has to have the same opinion as those who replied before them. He never once claimed the Democrats are doing that was endorsed by Jesus. In fact he's saying that should be irrelevant.

 

Again, it would be nice if you got out of attack mode and started just arguing for or against what people are posting. I know others are guilty of the same on occasion, including myself, but almost all of your posts have been this way so far.

You make some good points. But c'mon, you know the general tenor of this thread, right?

Play nice. Lol... If I had all the words to explain, I would gladly do so, but I can't explain Christianity in two or three posts. My recommendation would be to maybe go to church, and truly try to live a Christian life style (not a secular Christian life style)  if anyone is curious about understanding Christians issues. 

3 minutes ago, Nebfanatic said:

It is not a Christian Constitution nor should it be and thats that. And I am Christian. Thats half the reason people were leaving England for America, religion in politics. 

No, it definitely is, that's not to say all religions aren't encouraged or allowed. It's just that atheism, Satanism, and Buddhism had less input than Christ in our constitution. 

11 minutes ago, Moiraine said:

 

 

He didn't mention a political party.

Lol, have you read this thread moraine?

You're not that oblivious.

2 minutes ago, Nebfanatic said:

Isn't the idea of the Constitution to not be associated with religion? 

Religious governing body's, like the Vatican, sure. But apart from God? Nope, not at all.

It does outline the fact that we shouldn't harm, prohibit, or discriminate against anyone from any religion, for any reason really. But of course, that's one of the bedrocks of Christianity, I'm pretty confident the founders were aware of that.

2 minutes ago, Moiraine said:

 

 

What? I wasn't talking about Trump. You implied you think Democrats want to weaken or get rid of the 2nd amendment. The GOP has been saying that for ages. Trump barely talks about it. I don't think he's very powerful when it comes to GOP messaging.

 

Also, I wasn't wound up in the slightest. I was talking politics in the politics forum, as people are wont to do.

You weren't talking about Trump in the Russia investigation thread? Not at all? Really? What.

Ok, so not Trump.... Just the gop as a whole is bad news lol. Because of their talking points against the dnc's gun stance. And the dnc doesn't have the same hollow talking points against the gop? I've been duped? Good luck winning the swing votes!

Ok fair point, you took a joke out of context to get on your high horse and inform me of my dupedness. Again, good luck winning the swing votes.

14 minutes ago, Nebfanatic said:

Was Trumps name mentioned by Moiraine? Thats weird, it wasn't yet you brought it up anyway. I'm not sure I believe your whole 'I'm not even a GOP voter' schtick. Its funny though! 

Wow, good observation, she didn't bring Trump up by name..... I didn't mention Obama or Clinton my name before she brought them up. What's your point again?

She did pretentiously associate me with being duped by someone/something. I wonder who she could mean? You tell me.

Believe whatever you want man, but I'm honestly not pulling you're leg.  I've never voted for the gop candidate (but I've got more and more reasons every day).

1 hour ago, BlitzFirst said:

In no way can (nor should) the Bible be applied to the United States or its politics.  IF you're a Christian...Christianity isn't just American and thus doesn't just apply to America or its politics.  If you're a Christian, you know that Jesus, in spite of pressure from all sides, turned down becoming a political messiah and did not push his teachings for political change...in fact, every time the subject was breached he preached the separation of politics and religion.

 

Lastly, the Bible was written during a different time, for a different audience...it's a LIBRARY of books...they don't all agree and they are not an anthology by the same author.  I think people misapply this every single day...because they wish it were different and so the WILL it to be different.  I don't feel the Bible can be applied today to anything at all...I'm sure many Judaeo-Christians here will disagree and we'll have to agree to disagree on that.

 

Jesus didn't exactly "endorse" most of what the democrats are trying to push either, so buzz off that non sense.

You're trying to use Jesus as a reason to remove Jesus from our culture and world view. I hope you, and the folks who up voted, understand how oxymoronic that is.

Culture shapes politics. And the laws in this country, esp the non racist laws, are built from Christianity.... Which is why Christians get upset that our culture has devolved to the extent that it has, and then we get told by one side of the isle that it's our own world view that has messed it all up. We're living a post-Christian culture with a fundamentally Christian constitution..... Bizarro world man. 

21 hours ago, Moiraine said:

If you’re looking for fine art related to Trump, there are several Trump collages made out of photos of penises. Feel free to google search. 

It's a free country, so do what you like, but feel free to go to church this weekend.

3 hours ago, Moiraine said:

 

You're claiming you're just making jokes, but it seems to me you believe in what you're saying to some extent. So if that's the case:

 

Clinton had 8 years, Obama had 8 years. No attacks were made on the 2nd amendment. Quit listening to whoever is tricking you into thinking the Democrats are going to do anything to the 2nd amendment. You've been duped.

 

You've been similarly duped into thinking having some socialist aspects to our government, like the fire department, police department, schools, highways, and health care are/would be a bad thing.

Wow sorry to get you wound up, or why else are you trying to make a serious point out of a few jokes?

I was making a joke, mocking him more so, but a joke none the less.... I'm not worried about the 2nd, annoyed is probably a better description.... But to your point, every joke does have a grain of truth to it.  And you're smart enough to know what Kernals of truth that can be found in both commando and my own comments.

I've been duped? Lol. You're off your rocker. Go back to Russia you silly silly robot. Stop, I wouldn't want you to influence my vote or anything. Lol.... It's funny, I visit here often enough to pick up on the general vibe, and to be honest, nothing makes me want to vote for Trump more than your posts moraine, among others (and I didn't vote for him last time around, nor have I ever voted for the gop candidate, not that it should matter)..... Even when I agree with your general point, like in your previous post for example, you have this odd ability of making Trump seem like a palatable person. I wish I could wrap my head around it, because I know he's a knuckle head, but Jesus look in a mirror you guys. Why would anyone vote for a dem candidate? Lol

1 minute ago, commando said:

no reply to my question to you about your statement of the dems taking away all the guns.   your surrender is noted.

 

and FYI....i am not a democrat or socialist.   for most my life  I've identified as republican.   now i don't know where i fit but i know it's not in what the republican party has become.

You made a stupid joke that had no relevance to the gop (And a classic movie for that matter).

I made a stupid joke that had no relevance to the dnc.

We then repeated both steps.

And then you try to make an actual point about stupid jokes. Are you sure that you're not a democratic socialist? Lol

1 minute ago, commando said:

remember all those gun control laws passed by obama and the dems when they were in power? 

Remember when the gop was putting socialists and communists on the presidential debate stage?

18 hours ago, commando said:

Right now the GOP would root against the Wolverines in Red Dawn.

 

Haha good one. That's funny comrade.

But we would probably have to surrender in the opening act if the dnc has it their way with the 2nd amendment. And I know that I don't have to tell you commando, but for all you crazy Russians reading this, that would be a lame movie.

2 minutes ago, RedDenver said:

The “No Life-Saving Abortions” Lie, and Why It Persists

 

Tough questions — and answers — on ‘late-term’ abortions, the law and the women who get them

.

Ok? So At what point do you draw the line?

At that late of a stage, regardless of fetus viability, a delivery is necessary. It's not as if the child is just re absorbed into the mothers body. A delivery of some sort is required. However, it is not required to end the child's life before deliver.

Some abortion logistics:

6 hours ago, RedDenver said:

You're moving the goal posts. You were originally upset that NY changed it's laws such that the guy who killed a pregnant woman had the abortion charge dropped. If NY laws were not changed, the guy still wouldn't have been charged with two murders.

 

Nobody is arguing life doesn't begin at conception. In fact both the sperm and the egg are living cells prior to conception, and the embryo is also alive after conception. Science has long ago proven that.

 

And the abortion law in NY has late-term restrictions, here's what it actually says:

"According to the practitioner's reasonable and good faith professional judgment based on the facts of the patient's case: the patient is within twenty-four weeks from the commencement of pregnancy, or there is an absence of fetal viability, or the abortion is necessary to protect the patient's life or health."

No, I haven't moved any goal posts, but there are certainly multiple issues at play here.... My original post that you responded to was pointing out that a father had killed his pregnant GF and (wanted)unborn child, but will only be charged for the murder of one of those two humans. The only thing I said in regards to that murder are that the man should be held accountable for his crimes, that is a flaw in the system that has resulted from not respecting and acknowledging that child as a human life before birth.

So at what point do these lives deserve constitutional protections? Or do they at all?

At what point is the second bolded part not true or just to you (because that is why its being debated)? What health condition would require an abortion for sake of saving the mother's life or health (esp in the third trimester)? Do you understand how an abortion is preformed logistically (esp late-term abortions)? You should go watch an abortion being preformed.

28 minutes ago, LumberJackSker said:

Thats a good question i don't remember it being framed like that when i was in school. If it was a public school i guess i would just want the curriculum to cover the facts like what the law covers and not for the teacher to paint it one way or the other. 

I'm honestly not sure how its covered at a Catholic school or any school with a religious affiliation.

Just to clarify, "Good" is probably the wrong way to say what I mean entirely. It wasn't presented as "good" when I learned it (not that I can remember anyway), but it was presented in the name of "progress, women's rights, civil rights, and ending back alley abortions" - all of which I hope we can all agree are "good" things in spirit and intentions.

35 minutes ago, Big Red 40 said:

Morality and religion aren't the same thing. Criminal laws/punishment on the things you listed are based largely on whether one persons actions directly hurt another, and to what extent. Some of them may resemble things that are said in the bible, but the founders were opposed to making laws based on it. 

As far as abortion, the belief that life begins at conception is based off peoples religious views , not science, and many of those people want to force that belief on others by banning all abortion. I don't think that's right.  

The idea that life doesn't begin at conception is also not based on science. So the idea that life does not start at conception is based on what? Morality?

That's the real challenge of the argument is being able to prove it one way or another scientifically undeniably, and I'm looking forward to that day!.... But in the mean time, I'd simply be glad for a few concessions from abortionists. Because right now we're trending in the direction of abortion up to the moment of birth like in NY, the moment of conception is barely in the conversation anymore.

26 minutes ago, LumberJackSker said:

I don't think being religious is a bad thing and I've seen it do great things for people. I guess the only problem i have is when it comes to issues like abortion or even gay marriage it seems like people try to force their views on people. 

I get your point, and to that point, I don't like or intend to force anyone's beliefs. I certainly would hate for any of the gay folks I know to be killed or jailed simply for their life-styles like they are in other parts of the world. Personally, as far as anyone who has had or conducted an abortion (at least at the level that current laws require), I'm ready to forgive them for what I see as a crime against God and society. However, it'd be awesome if they all admitted that chopping up a baby in the womb is in fact ending a life, and then ended the practice.

I'm curious though since you mentioned forcing beliefs... What constitutes forcing a belief to you? When RoevWade/abortion is taught in elementary schools (at least going by the school books) as generally a "good" thing, would you constitute that as forcing beliefs? It's certainly not wanted by all parents.

35 minutes ago, LumberJackSker said:

So how did people know what the right thing to do was before modern faiths? And its not like religion has fixed bad behavior. Most of the worst atrocities committed by people were done in the name of god. 

I'm not religious and dont have a problem with people that are most people i know are. But i dont like it when people try to force their beliefs on me. 

That's a great question, I don't have a complete answer, whats you're theory? I would honestly love for someone to put that world view into words for me.

Who's forcing beliefs in this general discussion? It's not as if religious groups haven't been tolerating abortion for quite some time - and acting far more than tolerant to this day. At this rate, seems to me, if abortion is ever made illegal, it will be through our elected political leaders peacefully, not forcefully.

Obviously religion hasn't removed bad behavior from society, nor is that the overall goal of all or even most religions.

Of course murder is far from being a topic tied only to religious morals or philosophy. You don't have to be religious to oppose murder (or any crime), that doesn't mean religious institutions and people should shy away from or be berated for sharing their religious convictions in the course of discussion.(that's not directed at you, just a general point)