5 Bold Predictions for Taylor Martinez
- Thread starter Haspula
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Foppa
All-American
I think Jerry Tagge, Turner Gill, Tommie Frazier, Vince Ferragamo, Dave Humm, and Heisman winner Eric Crouch may wonder what you're talking about. Especially when Taylor hasn't even started his junior season. Not that he can't be in the same sentence, but maybe we should let him finish his career at NU before anointing him the 'best ever NU QB?'
I like your enthusiasm, and I really hope he shines. He'll need help from his OL, Backs, TE's, and WR's though...as any successful QB does.
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Admittedly, I'm a glass-half-full guy. But I think there's good reason to believe Martinez will continue to show improvement this season for the simple fact that this will be the first time since he's been at NU that he'll have an entire off-season to continue to refine a system with which he is already familiar.
2009 - Scout team, probably not getting the most reps in our offense, which wouldn't have been what we ended up running the next year anyway.
2010 - Starts as a Frosh after (I assume) splitting a lot of the off-season reps three ways. It was a totally different offense from the year before so it would be interesting to know actually how much zone-read-type we practiced before he was named the starter.
2011 - Injured and basically didn't participate in spring ball. Changed to Beck as OC
Not only would this be very hard on any QB, it's also very hard on the rest of the offense trying to get in sync. I'm sure everyone had to spend so much time just trying to learn the basics that there couldn't have been a lot of time to work on the finer points. It sounds like we'll be breaking in a new C. Other than that - with the possible exception of some backups at WR and RB (Westercamp, etc.) working their way into the mix - everyone on the offense will have pretty good playing experience and familiarity with the system. I expect everyone to show improvement.
2009 - Scout team, probably not getting the most reps in our offense, which wouldn't have been what we ended up running the next year anyway.
2010 - Starts as a Frosh after (I assume) splitting a lot of the off-season reps three ways. It was a totally different offense from the year before so it would be interesting to know actually how much zone-read-type we practiced before he was named the starter.
2011 - Injured and basically didn't participate in spring ball. Changed to Beck as OC
Not only would this be very hard on any QB, it's also very hard on the rest of the offense trying to get in sync. I'm sure everyone had to spend so much time just trying to learn the basics that there couldn't have been a lot of time to work on the finer points. It sounds like we'll be breaking in a new C. Other than that - with the possible exception of some backups at WR and RB (Westercamp, etc.) working their way into the mix - everyone on the offense will have pretty good playing experience and familiarity with the system. I expect everyone to show improvement.
Again read what I said, put him behind any lines that Nebraska had in their hay days and what would he do. He is cursed with a below average Oline, a beginner OC, and learning on the Job Head Coach. Give him the tools that Crouch or Frazier had and see what happens.
All that you mentioned, had the best of everything, great position coaches, with great athletes at nearly every position and a Head Coach that may have been one of the best ever at using the QB to win games.
We have never had a Freshman All American QB, not Frazier, not Crouch, not Tagge, nor Humm. That puts him ahead of them in their careers at the same time in my book. Now will he get the tools, the coaching to be as good as the rest, most likely not, but the main problem for his failure will not be him
All that you mentioned, had the best of everything, great position coaches, with great athletes at nearly every position and a Head Coach that may have been one of the best ever at using the QB to win games.
We have never had a Freshman All American QB, not Frazier, not Crouch, not Tagge, nor Humm. That puts him ahead of them in their careers at the same time in my book. Now will he get the tools, the coaching to be as good as the rest, most likely not, but the main problem for his failure will not be him
bshirt
Banned
You're 100% on the money but you'll laughed out of town. The haters gotta hate and "nothing" is going to change their minds. No undefeated seasons? Tmart s*cks!!! The monster sized quality of difference between our current Olines, Wrs & blackshirts relative to Frost or Frazier's team-mates is truly titantic but that concept is wayyyyyyyy over the hater's heads. Just the way it is.
I strongly suggest you don't bring this subject up again because you'll get nothing but endless grief for it. Just hang tough and see how it goes this year. The Oline should easily be the best Tmart's ever had (sadly, not really saying much) and sooner or later we'll get some WRs who can catch the ball. A guy's gotta believe Bo has something up his sleeve for the defense, right? We'll be ok.
GBR!!
NUance
Assistant Coach
Oh Rittenberg, pull your head out of your butt little nerd man. Vandenberg may well be a more accomplished than Martinez. Especially if your definition of "accomplished" means a more proto-typical NFL candidate. Sure Martinez isn't near the passer that Vandenbeg is. T-Mart is a dual threat QB. If you want to compare the two--which is a hard thing to do since they play vastly different styles of ball--at least look at both passing and running stats. Vandenberg was barely net positive in rushing yards last year. That, and you should probably consider that Martinez was operating a new offense under a new OC last year.
druski_2k5
Five-Star Recruit
I'm not hating on Taylor, I would love nothing more if he wins us a National Title and brings home a Heisman trophy in the next two years.
With that finally out of the way.....
It is a little unrealistic to compare him to Crouch, Frazier, Gill, Frost because of those teams those guys played on were at a much higher level. However, I think you can compare individual ability and how said player played with your eyes, and not looking at statistics and wins and all of that.
To say that Crouch was not Barry Sanders as a runner, would be true. There is only one Barry Sanders. But to say he wasn't a "great moves" guy is clearly not correct at all. Zoogies and Hercules got it right in this thread earlier on but I'd like to add to it.
Crouch had moves, period. He was a great juke and jive runner, and had great instinct and amazing acceleration and knew when and where to cut up-field. Frazier also had good jukes but did not have the acceleration Crouch had. Was Eric the best option pitcher in the world? He was at least serviceable and made nice pitches when needed. But he was always pushing the ball as hard as he could and as fast as he could up-field to get as many yards as possible.
A "move" I would say he had, was the ability to make the outside defender commit to the running back, took his lane and cut up-field. All Husker quarterbacks could do that though, that's why they were as great as they were.
It wasn't "flashy" like his 01 Missouri run or a Barry Sanders/Lawrence Phillips run, but he was able to turn a 4 yard gain into a 15 yard gain. Crouch, and other Nebraska quarterbacks, were able to make something out of nothing if a passing play broke down. They were able to scramble for positive yards as opposed to running into their linemen for a guaranteed sack. Nebraska quarterbacks usually have great vision running the ball and are a threat to do damage on the ground during a broken passing play. That is what Taylor lacks.
Taylor, when healthy, has amazing gap speed. He might be faster than Crouch in that regard, it's close though. Taylor is way, way, more effective in the zone read option runs as opposed to the traditional option runs. Crouch ran some zone read, but not a lot, but he was way more effective in the option game. Again, going back to their background and who they had coaching plays a huge factor in this. Our old quarterbacks were tougher runners than Taylor, but again, it depends on coaching staff, player mentality, and just used to doing one thing or the other. Not being critical there, just an observation.
The biggest thing I want Taylor to improve on, is his ability to scramble and make something out of nothing. He doesn't have to runs for 200 and pass for 250. He doesn't have to be Crouch and carry the ball a ton of times because he has no one around him. He just has to be effective with his feet, which opens passing lanes. And by running on passing plays, or improving his option game, that will happen. Our offense has the types of players to truly be something to watch this year, and I hope they can maximize their potential. There were drops last year that happened, but Taylor's WR's, in my opinion, are a little better than what the old teams were used to having. Drops happen, but you hope to minimize them by putting the ball where it needs to be, or as a receiver, hauling it in if you get your hands on it. Some of the "drops" can be attributed to bad pass trajectories. Again, i'm not being critical of Taylor, sometimes that's the way the passes come out due to pressure, rolling-out, or just not a great throw. Especially coming from someone who hasn't played a ton of quarterback.
Our old offenses differ from our new offenses though. The old ones were play-action deep passes, and in our new ones, post-Solich, we rely on some slants, drags, curls, screens, way more than our old offenses which can inflate the percentages a little. I remember reading a quote from Crouch a while back that he said he'd love to play in an offense we have today, because of the multiplicity and new things we throw at opponents. I think all of our quarterbacks would be just as deadly, if not more, in a system like we have now.
I will give Taylor credit though. He has never ran the option until last year, so I will cut him HUGE slack on that. He hasn't been playing quarterback very long so I will give him some slack on that as well. In-fact, his ability to play at a fairly good level in such a short time is impressive and he has my kudos for that. Could he be better? Absolutely, and him and Bo would be the first people to admit that. But everyone can always be better, that's why you practice and play the games. I also give him huge kudos for wanting to work on his passing and attending passing camps and taking time out of his personal schedule to do that. Wonderful, that's the kind of leadership we need.
I'm happy with Taylor as our quarterback and he has a huge ceiling, but he's not the option runner or has that great vision as a runner that our previous great quarterbacks had. That is something he needs to improve on, and I hope he does, because he can really take us to glory if he can get a little bit better vision and feel for the scrambling/option game. Nebraska needs a game-breaker dual threat quarterback, or an NFL ready quarterback to be great. It's how it's always been. I'd rather we have the dual threat guy though, it's worked before.
I want to see Taylor as the "game breaker" and not the "game manager". We've never had a "game manager" win BCS games or National Titles.
And come on, this is Nebraska, we are USED to having quarterbacks that don't have NFL ready throwing motions and look awkward throwing the ball.
With that finally out of the way.....
It is a little unrealistic to compare him to Crouch, Frazier, Gill, Frost because of those teams those guys played on were at a much higher level. However, I think you can compare individual ability and how said player played with your eyes, and not looking at statistics and wins and all of that.
To say that Crouch was not Barry Sanders as a runner, would be true. There is only one Barry Sanders. But to say he wasn't a "great moves" guy is clearly not correct at all. Zoogies and Hercules got it right in this thread earlier on but I'd like to add to it.
Crouch had moves, period. He was a great juke and jive runner, and had great instinct and amazing acceleration and knew when and where to cut up-field. Frazier also had good jukes but did not have the acceleration Crouch had. Was Eric the best option pitcher in the world? He was at least serviceable and made nice pitches when needed. But he was always pushing the ball as hard as he could and as fast as he could up-field to get as many yards as possible.
A "move" I would say he had, was the ability to make the outside defender commit to the running back, took his lane and cut up-field. All Husker quarterbacks could do that though, that's why they were as great as they were.
It wasn't "flashy" like his 01 Missouri run or a Barry Sanders/Lawrence Phillips run, but he was able to turn a 4 yard gain into a 15 yard gain. Crouch, and other Nebraska quarterbacks, were able to make something out of nothing if a passing play broke down. They were able to scramble for positive yards as opposed to running into their linemen for a guaranteed sack. Nebraska quarterbacks usually have great vision running the ball and are a threat to do damage on the ground during a broken passing play. That is what Taylor lacks.
Taylor, when healthy, has amazing gap speed. He might be faster than Crouch in that regard, it's close though. Taylor is way, way, more effective in the zone read option runs as opposed to the traditional option runs. Crouch ran some zone read, but not a lot, but he was way more effective in the option game. Again, going back to their background and who they had coaching plays a huge factor in this. Our old quarterbacks were tougher runners than Taylor, but again, it depends on coaching staff, player mentality, and just used to doing one thing or the other. Not being critical there, just an observation.
The biggest thing I want Taylor to improve on, is his ability to scramble and make something out of nothing. He doesn't have to runs for 200 and pass for 250. He doesn't have to be Crouch and carry the ball a ton of times because he has no one around him. He just has to be effective with his feet, which opens passing lanes. And by running on passing plays, or improving his option game, that will happen. Our offense has the types of players to truly be something to watch this year, and I hope they can maximize their potential. There were drops last year that happened, but Taylor's WR's, in my opinion, are a little better than what the old teams were used to having. Drops happen, but you hope to minimize them by putting the ball where it needs to be, or as a receiver, hauling it in if you get your hands on it. Some of the "drops" can be attributed to bad pass trajectories. Again, i'm not being critical of Taylor, sometimes that's the way the passes come out due to pressure, rolling-out, or just not a great throw. Especially coming from someone who hasn't played a ton of quarterback.
Our old offenses differ from our new offenses though. The old ones were play-action deep passes, and in our new ones, post-Solich, we rely on some slants, drags, curls, screens, way more than our old offenses which can inflate the percentages a little. I remember reading a quote from Crouch a while back that he said he'd love to play in an offense we have today, because of the multiplicity and new things we throw at opponents. I think all of our quarterbacks would be just as deadly, if not more, in a system like we have now.
I will give Taylor credit though. He has never ran the option until last year, so I will cut him HUGE slack on that. He hasn't been playing quarterback very long so I will give him some slack on that as well. In-fact, his ability to play at a fairly good level in such a short time is impressive and he has my kudos for that. Could he be better? Absolutely, and him and Bo would be the first people to admit that. But everyone can always be better, that's why you practice and play the games. I also give him huge kudos for wanting to work on his passing and attending passing camps and taking time out of his personal schedule to do that. Wonderful, that's the kind of leadership we need.
I'm happy with Taylor as our quarterback and he has a huge ceiling, but he's not the option runner or has that great vision as a runner that our previous great quarterbacks had. That is something he needs to improve on, and I hope he does, because he can really take us to glory if he can get a little bit better vision and feel for the scrambling/option game. Nebraska needs a game-breaker dual threat quarterback, or an NFL ready quarterback to be great. It's how it's always been. I'd rather we have the dual threat guy though, it's worked before.
I want to see Taylor as the "game breaker" and not the "game manager". We've never had a "game manager" win BCS games or National Titles.
And come on, this is Nebraska, we are USED to having quarterbacks that don't have NFL ready throwing motions and look awkward throwing the ball.
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Blackshirts007
All-American
I don't know about anyone else but I'm getting a very eerie feeling about this season. There hasn't been a lot of media or buzz about us and I think we are going to shock some people. The past few years I've heard all sorts of hype and press about how it's going to be our breakout year and so on, but I never bought it. When you expect big things it's too easy to fall short and be disappointed. However I think this year could be huge. I always said from before the 2011 season that 2013 was going to be our big chance at a mnc because of the piss poor schedule. Its going to come a year early folks. I'm not saying we are going to be a mnc contender but BCS will be this year. Taylor has grown so much since he stepped on campus and I think he's going to be a monster this year. The o line is continuing to become the pipeline they should be and the D should be the best in bo's tenure. It might be hard to grasp since we lost key players at each level but we reloaded pretty well. I actually believe its better to not have one or two players that are way ahead of the rest of the D. There is not one player on the D this year that I could name preseason as being a star player. I believe many players will step up and work as a team and be a much more dangerous D than one with three excellent playmakers and mediocracy around them. Then you can get to offense which will be runnin the same playbook consecutively for the first time in 4 years. IMO Christmas will be coming early for me. I would not be surprised by an Auburn like season. Everyone has us middle of the pack top 25 and we slowly work our way up. This is a junior and senior led group now, they will play like it. Gbr
bshirt
Banned
Well, for the last 5 minutes on this thread.....nobody. For the last two years on every thread and forum....well, like counting grains of sand on the beach.
Been on this board for a long time. Used to be one of the the swallow anything lemmings, did not want Bo as our coach, still think we would be far better off if we could have gotten Groeb. Have changed my mind on Bo, still think he is in way over his head, but he keeps climbing so hopefully he will make it.
Always say it like I see it, look at things in the larger picture than most on here. Other things to life than just Nebraska football. Been a loyal fan for many many many years. Just do not buy all the coach speak anymore. Before I buy in again, I want to see it on the field and we have been short on that side for quite awhile.
Still say at this point in his career he is far ahead of any of the others in spite of Bo and Watson and Beck and the lumps of coal given him to work with. Hopefully he turns them all into diamonds this year, but I have my doubts, but the one thing I do not doubt, it will all be Taylor's fault if we lose, not so much if we win.
Always say it like I see it, look at things in the larger picture than most on here. Other things to life than just Nebraska football. Been a loyal fan for many many many years. Just do not buy all the coach speak anymore. Before I buy in again, I want to see it on the field and we have been short on that side for quite awhile.
Still say at this point in his career he is far ahead of any of the others in spite of Bo and Watson and Beck and the lumps of coal given him to work with. Hopefully he turns them all into diamonds this year, but I have my doubts, but the one thing I do not doubt, it will all be Taylor's fault if we lose, not so much if we win.
The Dude
Heisman Trophy Winner
It's a good think you're not the AD then. Not only would you have hired a lousy coach, you would have spelled his name wrong.
zoogs
Assistant Coach
But you buy into any Taylor hype wholesale, even to the extent where you will blame the coaches, the lines, the receivers, the assistants, and everybody but Taylor if Taylor should not end up being the best ever. That's absurd.
I respect your "let's be real" and "let's look at the larger picture" viewpoints, but really, they just seem to be different flavors of opinion and not fundamentally better ways of looking at things. Which you seem to be implying.
druski - great post, you put it better than I ever could have. Taylor has phenomenal skills for the zone read, and his acceleration shouldn't be discounted, but it is one of many attributes a runner can have, let's not forget that. Taylor can do a ton of damage with just that but let's be real and not pretend he is the shakiest, bakiest, power-up-the-middle, glorious field vision guy of all time as well.
Very interested in seeing where we are going with the offense this year. Again, I hope it's a ton of ZR as our bread and butter. Go Big Red
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bshirt
Banned
Haha....my good friend, you can dream up straw-men like no other. As always, you make unreal gap-speed sound like just a marginal at best asset (it is one of many attributes a runner can have, let's not forget that).....lol! Vintage zoogies.But you buy into any Taylor hype wholesale, even to the extent where you will blame the coaches, the lines, the receivers, the assistants, and everybody but Taylor if Taylor should not end up being the best ever. That's absurd.
I respect your "let's be real" and "let's look at the larger picture" viewpoints, but really, they just seem to be different flavors of opinion and not fundamentally better ways of looking at things. Which you seem to be implying.
druski - great post, you put it better than I ever could have. Taylor has phenomenal skills for the zone read, and his acceleration shouldn't be discounted, but it is one of many attributes a runner can have, let's not forget that. Taylor can do a ton of damage with just that but let's be real and not pretend he is the shakiest, bakiest, power-up-the-middle, glorious field vision guy of all time as well.
Very interested in seeing where we are going with the offense this year. Again, I hope it's a ton of ZR as our bread and butter. Go Big Red
But that's ok as I''m with you, bring on the zone read! Some lateral option is just fine too. Practice makes perfect and either use it real or dump it imo. It's just not something you use very occasionally to be "multiple". Tim, trust me.....you don't want to be SW. Some miss-direction out of the diamond is another thing I would kill for. I remember Beck using that "once" & whoever that opponent was (10 second memory span in gear here) just sh*t their pants.
We'll have fun this year, compadre'.
GBR!!