Carriker Chronicles - Osborne vs. Saban - Who's the Best?

Guy Chamberlin said:
To be fair, Tom Osborne wasn't in anyone's discussion until the last five years of his 25 year career.
Click to expand...


Bingo.  Plus, Saban didn't exactly inherit a team that had won NCs right before he took over at Bama and LSU.  When Saban went to Bama, it was a mess considering the sanctions and violations before his tenure.  I really don't want to discredit TO here, but I'd put the Bobfather higher than TO with regards to GOAT.  Bob Devaney took over a team that had only won 15 games in the previous 5 years.  TO took over a team that had won two NCs in the previous three years.  Devaney retired in his late 50's.  Imagine the NCs he would have accumulated had he coached longer. 

 
I'm a 49ers fan. A Joe Montana fan. But at some point I have to tip my hat to Tom Brady. 

We can talk personality and style points all we want, but Nick Saban has surpassed Tom Osborne by the metrics most non-Nebraskans and Alabamans would use for this sort of thing. 

It happens.  

 
Respect.  While we have our loyalties, respect for the job done has to be given.   My loyalty is with Tom but my head says Saban has surpassed him.  There are many reasons why I'd prefer to build a team around Tom but if the only criteria is NC, then I'd have to go wt Saban.   Now I could argue that Tom's top 3 or 4 teams could probably beat all of Saban's teams but then that would be comparing different eras and that is a fruitless exercise. 

 
Enhance said:
TO with Alabama's location and recruitment pool would've been a scary, scary force. That's not to downplay the work Saban has done - bad coaches have come through Alabama and failed to succeed with that talent. But, it certainly doesn't hurt Saban's ceiling.
Click to expand...
But then TO couldn't cover up the stuff his players did and it would be more national news.  How would people feel if Lawrence Phillips played today? The Peter brothers? 

 
TGHusker said:
Respect.  While we have our loyalties, respect for the job done has to be given.   My loyalty is with Tom but my head says Saban has surpassed him.  There are many reasons why I'd prefer to build a team around Tom but if the only criteria is NC, then I'd have to go wt Saban.   Now I could argue that Tom's top 3 or 4 teams could probably beat all of Saban's teams but then that would be comparing different eras and that is a fruitless exercise. 
Click to expand...


Hard to argue with this.  Saban's best team is...what his '12 team that smoked Notre Dame right?  I would've liked to see how that team would've matched up with '12 Oregon team that had Mariota at QB, De'Anthony Thomas/Kenjon Barner at RB and speed all over the place.

 
Guy Chamberlin said:
I'm a 49ers fan. A Joe Montana fan. But at some point I have to tip my hat to Tom Brady. 

We can talk personality and style points all we want, but Nick Saban has surpassed Tom Osborne by the metrics most non-Nebraskans and Alabamans would use for this sort of thing. 

It happens.  
Click to expand...
Any unbiased fan who looks at things objectively would say Saban.

 
huskerfan333157 said:
But then TO couldn't cover up the stuff his players did and it would be more national news.  How would people feel if Lawrence Phillips played today? The Peter brothers? 
Click to expand...
I'm unsure if I follow. Why did what I say correlate to LP and similarly related off-the-field issues?

 
I am not sure if I should hate Saban or Cooper for costing the Buckeyes a shot at the 1998 NC, but I will go with Saban. Saying that, I have to give the guy credit for what he has done over the years.

It would be interesting to see how some of the coaches in the past would have handled off the field issues, recruits, and parents today.

 
TGHusker said:
Respect.  While we have our loyalties, respect for the job done has to be given.   My loyalty is with Tom but my head says Saban has surpassed him.  There are many reasons why I'd prefer to build a team around Tom but if the only criteria is NC, then I'd have to go wt Saban.   Now I could argue that Tom's top 3 or 4 teams could probably beat all of Saban's teams but then that would be comparing different eras and that is a fruitless exercise. 
Click to expand...


That's a fair point. Tom Osborne still fielded the best college football team ever.

I think the answer is Saban, and by a decent margin (6 championships to 3). This doesn't mean that I think Saban is any better of a coach than Osborne. I would actually have doubts that Saban could duplicate Osborne's success at Nebraska if he was given the chance. What Osborne did in the middle of nowhere was unprecedented....BUT championships matter.

 
B.B. Hemingway said:
That's a fair point. Tom Osborne still fielded the best college football team ever.

I think the answer is Saban, and by a decent margin (6 championships to 3). This doesn't mean that I think Saban is any better of a coach than Osborne. I would actually have doubts that Saban could duplicate Osborne's success at Nebraska if he was given the chance. What Osborne did in the middle of nowhere was unprecedented....BUT championships matter.
Click to expand...
OK Let's say Tom is the best coach to have ever coached at a non-recruiting hotbed place like the MidWest, Mtn West, etc.   And  I too don't believe Saban, Myers, Bear etc could have accomplished at NU what Tom did. Only one coach comes to mind who could have replicated Tom's results or exceeded it: that would be the BobFather Devaney.  He is another one that could have been in this 'all time discussion'  if he had coached beyond age 52 ( I think that was his age when he left the HC job and moved to AD - by the way - why did he make that move??  ) He may have made Switzer just a footnote in OUs coaching records.

 
TGHusker said:
OK Let's say Tom is the best coach to have ever coached at a non-recruiting hotbed place like the MidWest, Mtn West, etc.   And  I too don't believe Saban, Myers, Bear etc could have accomplished at NU what Tom did. Only one coach comes to mind who could have replicated Tom's results or exceeded it: that would be the BobFather Devaney.  He is another one that could have been in this 'all time discussion'  if he had coached beyond age 52 ( I think that was his age when he left the HC job and moved to AD - by the way - why did he make that move??  ) He may have made Switzer just a footnote in OUs coaching records.
Click to expand...


The BobFather is a lot better comparison to Saban than TO is as far as I'm concerned.  Both the BobFather and Saban actually built something.  TO simply inherited a NC winning squad from the word go.  Devaney didn't just win here either.  He has the highest winning percentage in Wyoming Cowboy football history at .750.  Devaney won at two different places that are non-recruiting hotbeds. 

TO was lucky to have started his career when he did rather than a couple of decades later.  Saban's replacement won't get 22 years to win his first NC.  I doubt they even get a third of that time.  It took TO nine years to win his first conference title.  Will Frost be allowed this much time?   

 
Crazyhole said:
Titles do matter, but do they matter more than going 25 years averaging over 10 wins and under 2 losses?  Do they outweigh losing no more than. 3 games in a year over that span?  
Click to expand...


In the 11 seasons before TO, Daveney won 101 games while only losing 20.  Michigan State had four consecutive losing seasons before Saban.  By year five, Michigan State had their best record in over three decades and their highest ranking in over three decades.  In the two years before Saban, LSU had won 6 games while losing 15 games.  The year before Saban, LSU lost every single conference game they played.  By year four, LSU won a NC.  When Saban took over at Alabama, he took over a program that had been hammered with sanctions.  By year three, he won his first of five NCs in his 11 seasons at Alabama. 

How a coach finishes his career is important.  However, is it any more important than how he started or what he started with?  Saban started at both Michigan State and Alabama when they were both enduring NCAA sanctions.  Devaney followed a coach who went 15-34-1 in five seasons.  In my opinion, TO isn't even the greatest Nebraska football coach.  This honor belongs to Devaney.  Devaney won his first conference title in year two just two years after Jennings had us going 3-6-1. 

 
junior4949 said:
In the 11 seasons before TO, Daveney won 101 games while only losing 20.  Michigan State had four consecutive losing seasons before Saban.  By year five, Michigan State had their best record in over three decades and their highest ranking in over three decades.  In the two years before Saban, LSU had won 6 games while losing 15 games.  The year before Saban, LSU lost every single conference game they played.  By year four, LSU won a NC.  When Saban took over at Alabama, he took over a program that had been hammered with sanctions.  By year three, he won his first of five NCs in his 11 seasons at Alabama. 

How a coach finishes his career is important.  However, is it any more important than how he started or what he started with?  Saban started at both Michigan State and Alabama when they were both enduring NCAA sanctions.  Devaney followed a coach who went 15-34-1 in five seasons.  In my opinion, TO isn't even the greatest Nebraska football coach.  This honor belongs to Devaney.  Devaney won his first conference title in year two just two years after Jennings had us going 3-6-1. 
Click to expand...
Lots of GREAT points there,  but it's worth noting that even devaney credited Osborne for the 1969 turnaround and said he was pretty much running the show for the 2 national title squads.   Technically no, he wasn't the head coach but if you look at devaneys comments at face value then Tom was actually responsible for turning the program around and being instrumental in changing the way strength and conditioning was viewed by the entire football community.  

 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top