Coaching or Talent - which is more responsible

[BigRedBuster]

It depends on how you want to look at it. There's an awful lot of chest-thumping about consecutive 5-3 finishers in an admittedly tepid B1G West heading downwards with recruiting (or let's call it "luck"). It doesn't mean they are wrong about that, but opinions vary.

So, maybe it shouldn't take as long as MSU did. However, to act like everything is so wrong in this transition only 3 games into it is a bit premature.

 

[Saunders]

Many Husker fans would look at MSU and wish we were where they are now. They are sitting at top 5 and talk some people think they have a good chance to contend for the conference championship by beating OSU and getting to the CCG. They have a good chance to get to the playoffs.

Now, look back at how long it took Dantonio to get that team to that level. Yes, he took over a team that didn't have the record we have had the last 7 years. But, in year 5 of his tenure (when he should have all of his own players) we beat them 24-3 in Lincoln. Should have Dantonio been on the hot seat? Should have fans been questioning his coaching and recruiting ability?

Now, we are in game 3 of this staff. Not year 3, but GAME 3.

In Dantonio's year 3, he had a losing record.

Now, I hope Nebraska doesn't take years to get back. But, sometimes it does. Continuous improvement. That is what this staff and players are trying to accomplish and that might take longer than what some want to admit. That isn't necessarily because there isn't talent on the team. Sometimes it takes some time for the players and staff to mesh and play at the level both strive for.

Dantonio is a great coach, but he inherited a pretty bad team. Prior to his arrival, Sparty went 4-8, 5-6. 5-7, 8-5, 4-8, 7-5, 5-6.

Before he got there "SPARTY NO" was a thing, because not only did they lack talent, but they had a penchant for blowing winnable games at the end.

You're right. I acknowledged the difference in records in my post.

However, some Husker fans would claim over the last several years we were extremely close to only having 6-8 wins. If miracle doesn't happen (McNeese State last play) or a ball doesn't bounce just right (Northwestern hail Mary), we don't win those games. So, it's the teams might not be that much different if you are just looking at records.

Now, I do believe we are better than what MSU was. But, the point is, transitions can take time and that doesn't mean it's a bad transition to make.

I agree. We've been close to losing some, but we've also been close to winning some. We were 3 plays from 11-12 wins last year. But we didn't finish the job.

 

[Saunders]

It depends on how you want to look at it. There's an awful lot of chest-thumping about consecutive 5-3 finishers in an admittedly tepid B1G West heading downwards with recruiting (or let's call it "luck"). It doesn't mean they are wrong about that, but opinions vary.

So, maybe it shouldn't take as long as MSU did. However, to act like everything is so wrong in this transition only 3 games into it is a bit premature.

Personally, I don't think "everything" is wrong. Except, of course, blaming it on Pelini. He didn't recruit well enough for us to be playoff contenders, nor Big champs.

BUT, we have enough talent to be 3-0. Coaching and execution are why we are not.

 

[zoogs]

11-12 would've been extremely lucky. The coulda game can be played ad infinitum. Last year's team finished about where it should have given what they showed on the field. Of course, probably any 9 win team is both "a few here and there" away from 6-7 as well as 11-12. For varying degrees of "here and there".

 

[Saunders]

11-12 would've been extremely lucky. The coulda game can be played ad infinitum. Last year's team finished about where it should have given what they showed on the field. Of course, probably any 9 win team is both "a few here and there" away from 6-7 as well as 11-12. For varying degrees of "here and there".

Right, I'm just saying that ast year, specifically, against MSU, Minnesota, and USC, we had the ball at the end of the game, with a chance to win.

We've been a couple plays away each year from falling off a cliff, or climbing the mountain, which is why Pelini's tenure was so agonizing.

 

[knapplc]

It depends on how you want to look at it. There's an awful lot of chest-thumping about consecutive 5-3 finishers in an admittedly tepid B1G West heading downwards with recruiting (or let's call it "luck"). It doesn't mean they are wrong about that, but opinions vary.

So, maybe it shouldn't take as long as MSU did. However, to act like everything is so wrong in this transition only 3 games into it is a bit premature.

Personally, I don't think "everything" is wrong. Except, of course, blaming it on Pelini. He didn't recruit well enough for us to be playoff contenders, nor Big champs.

BUT, we have enough talent to be 3-0. Coaching and execution are why we are not.

Wait. We can't blame anything on Pelini? Nothing?

That seems unrealistically generous to the guy who molded this team for seven years. Talent in the locker room, character, player expectations... these are all things Bo has a direct impact on with about 75% of this team. Bo and the staff he put together leaving doesn't wipe the slate clean.

There are positives and negatives from the Pelini Era, the ramifications of which we'll deal with for at least another year, maybe two. We cannot lay the blame - OR PRAISE - solely at the feet of Riley and his staff.

 

[BigRedBuster]

It depends on how you want to look at it. There's an awful lot of chest-thumping about consecutive 5-3 finishers in an admittedly tepid B1G West heading downwards with recruiting (or let's call it "luck"). It doesn't mean they are wrong about that, but opinions vary.

So, maybe it shouldn't take as long as MSU did. However, to act like everything is so wrong in this transition only 3 games into it is a bit premature.

Personally, I don't think "everything" is wrong. Except, of course, blaming it on Pelini. He didn't recruit well enough for us to be playoff contenders, nor Big champs.

BUT, we have enough talent to be 3-0. Coaching and execution are why we are not.

I agree we have the talent to be 3-0. It's too early to have an opinion on the bolded and it is possible the execution part is due to the transition.

 

[zoogs]

Personally, I don't think "everything" is wrong. Except, of course, blaming it on Pelini. He didn't recruit well enough for us to be playoff contenders, nor Big champs.

BUT, we have enough talent to be 3-0. Coaching and execution are why we are not.

Disagree here (but completely agree with your last post about how agonizing it's been the last few years.)

We have enough talent to be 50-50 competitive with approximately ranked Miami and BYU teams. We happened to lose close games, because one team has to W and one team has to L. These games could have gone either way for all of everybody's efforts (coaches, players), which seems to match the expectation on paper. The team's play so far looks fairly commensurate with the hypothesis that "Nebraska is approximately Top 25". Although even that may be generous given the kind of depth we have, and the amount of years the stronger unit (offense) has spent playing in their system (less than 1).

 

[Saunders]

It depends on how you want to look at it. There's an awful lot of chest-thumping about consecutive 5-3 finishers in an admittedly tepid B1G West heading downwards with recruiting (or let's call it "luck"). It doesn't mean they are wrong about that, but opinions vary.

So, maybe it shouldn't take as long as MSU did. However, to act like everything is so wrong in this transition only 3 games into it is a bit premature.

Personally, I don't think "everything" is wrong. Except, of course, blaming it on Pelini. He didn't recruit well enough for us to be playoff contenders, nor Big champs.

BUT, we have enough talent to be 3-0. Coaching and execution are why we are not.

Wait. We can't blame anything on Pelini? Nothing?

That seems unrealistically generous to the guy who molded this team for seven years. Talent in the locker room, character, player expectations... these are all things Bo has a direct impact on with about 75% of this team. Bo and the staff he put together leaving doesn't wipe the slate clean.

There are positives and negatives from the Pelini Era, the ramifications of which we'll deal with for at least another year, maybe two. We cannot lay the blame - OR PRAISE - solely at the feet of Riley and his staff.

Yeah, I didn't say we can't blame anything on Pelini. But saying "oh well, we lost to BYU and Miami because of Pelini" is disingenuous at best. Sure, if we had recruited top 5 classes for the last 10 years, we have a much better chance to win, but looking at the talent and coaching we do have, mistakes were made that cost us the game.

 

[knapplc]

Yeah, I didn't say we can't blame anything on Pelini. But saying "oh well, we lost to BYU and Miami because of Pelini" is disingenuous at best. Sure, if we had recruited top 5 classes for the last 10 years, we have a much better chance to win, but looking at the talent and coaching we do have, mistakes were made that cost us the game.

Probably a good thing nobody is saying that then, right? I'm not seeing that, anywhere.

 

[Saunders]

Personally, I don't think "everything" is wrong. Except, of course, blaming it on Pelini. He didn't recruit well enough for us to be playoff contenders, nor Big champs.

BUT, we have enough talent to be 3-0. Coaching and execution are why we are not.

Disagree here (but completely agree with your last post about how agonizing it's been the last few years.)

We have enough talent to be 50-50 competitive with approximately ranked Miami and BYU teams. We happened to lose close games, because one team has to W and one team has to L. These games could have gone either way for all of everybody's efforts (coaches, players), which seems to match the expectation on paper. The team's play so far looks fairly commensurate with the hypothesis that "Nebraska is approximately Top 25". Although even that may be generous given the kind of depth we have, and the amount of years the stronger unit (offense) has spent playing in their system (less than 1).

Pre-season, we've outrecruited everyone on our schedule, but Miami. If you look at the comparable roster talent (like steele and Athlon do), only Sparty was close to us.

BYU's average recruits in the 60-80 range. We've been a 20-40 range school, mostly right around 30.

Plenty of people on this very board said we had the talent to win, they just needed proper coaching. Now, the story has changed.

 

[Saunders]

Yeah, I didn't say we can't blame anything on Pelini. But saying "oh well, we lost to BYU and Miami because of Pelini" is disingenuous at best. Sure, if we had recruited top 5 classes for the last 10 years, we have a much better chance to win, but looking at the talent and coaching we do have, mistakes were made that cost us the game.

Probably a good thing nobody is saying that then, right? I'm not seeing that, anywhere.

That's the very point of this thread: http://www.huskerboard.com/index.php?/topic/76388-408-left-us-high-and-dry/

By going with the "cupboards are bare" argument, that's the stance you're taking. We lost, because of Pelini's recruiting.

And for the record, he wasn't very good at recruiting, but we do have talent. Those comparing our current roster to 2004 is beyond laughable, to the point of pure absurdity.

 

[Saunders]

So....

Don't forget that the defensive line in this new scheme will help the LB's out. Especially given our talent.

"This unit has gone from a question mark to a strength, and it may have the most talent per capita of any position on the team. And position coach Trent Bray will be getting defensive coordinator offers soon enough."

OWH

The cupboard is far from bare talent wise. Both on offense and defense. McKewon is trying to make things look worse then what they really are. Why? I have no idea...

Nope. We are in agreement. I think we are as talented right now as we have been in a long time. Maybe since those first years under Bo.

I couldn't make sense of what McKewon was tryng to say either. Regardless, I would be extremey disappointed if we only managed 7 wins with these players and our schedule.

There is as much talent on this team as MSU has and more talent than Wisconsin has. Why is Whisky and Sparty's talent 10+ win talent and NU"s is not? It all comes down to coaching.

NU has under performed the last 2 years on a talent stand point. I am not saying we have NC caliber talent, but we have 10+ win talent just like MSU or Wisconsin has.

Back to the original premise of SMc article, I still disagree that the talent is somewhere between 7-5 and 9-4. The talent is good enough to win 10+ games.

Actually, almost every expert I've heard has said Nebraska has more talent than Wisconsin. Really the question is whether Riley, Langsdorf, and Banker will better utilize that talent to result in playmakers making plays. We've got playmakers on both sides of the ball. Tommy, Pierson-El, Westerkamp are easily on the list offensively. Gerry, Banderas, Collins and Velentine on defense. There's seven right there. Let's hope this staff creates a few more.

2015 - New coach. Revelations about the old coach and staff explain some of the under-performance issues. A solid roster of returning talent, a major upgrade in assistant coaching, a positive attitude emerging from all involved in the program. Boyd Epply back in the house. If you're not optimistic, why be a fan?

Then again, there's a difference between optimism and expectation. I'm hopeful, but I'm not about to put my own money on an 11 win season.

I'm just seeing people who think there's no reason we CAN'T pick up an extra win, and a lot more people who would be satisfied to see the team play more consistently and meltdown-free.

What happened?

 

[knapplc]

Not one person is saying "The reason we lost to BYU and Miami is Bo Pelini." That's a straw man.

Bo contributed to our lack of depth and rough recruiting classes. He also contributed to the never-say-die attitude that helped this team fight back in the 4th quarter. He gets praise and blame for both. Can't avoid either.

 

[StPaulHusker]

Personally, I don't think "everything" is wrong. Except, of course, blaming it on Pelini. He didn't recruit well enough for us to be playoff contenders, nor Big champs.

BUT, we have enough talent to be 3-0. Coaching and execution are why we are not.

Disagree here (but completely agree with your last post about how agonizing it's been the last few years.)

We have enough talent to be 50-50 competitive with approximately ranked Miami and BYU teams. We happened to lose close games, because one team has to W and one team has to L. These games could have gone either way for all of everybody's efforts (coaches, players), which seems to match the expectation on paper. The team's play so far looks fairly commensurate with the hypothesis that "Nebraska is approximately Top 25". Although even that may be generous given the kind of depth we have, and the amount of years the stronger unit (offense) has spent playing in their system (less than 1).

Pre-season, we've outrecruited everyone on our schedule, but Miami. If you look at the comparable roster talent (like steele and Athlon do), only Sparty was close to us.

BYU's average recruits in the 60-80 range. We've been a 20-40 range school, mostly right around 30.

Plenty of people on this very board said we had the talent to win, they just needed proper coaching. Now, the story has changed.

We don't have the talent to win against BYU or Miami outright. And our attrition/non-contributor rate of out-recruiting other teams is more than 1 out of every 3. That has to hurt any coaching effort considering Pelini consistently didn't even fill classes.