Coaching or Talent - which is more responsible
- Thread starter grandpasknee
- Start date
knapplc
International Man of Mystery
zoogs
Assistant Coach
I'll counter this. Plenty of people have been saying for years that Pelini's recruiting -- hits, misses, numbers management -- was a problem and that at some point, those crows would come home to roost.
On the other hand, to isolate a similarly silly argument and take it down, there were people who advocated that 7 or 8 or 9 wins last year should have been expected and keep Bo's job safe. Now all of a sudden, this team was a sleeping giant all along. A few losses to graduation? No problem! #RivalsClassRankings. (I know that this not you. But what a change, equally).
To refer to BYU's recruiting class rank is a misrepresentation of where they are as a team right now. They're a 20-40ish level team, and so is Nebraska.
StPaulHusker
Banned
Armstrong over Ganz? 2008
Lucky and Helu are a push with Newby and Cross? 2008
OL is a push
WR 2015
TE is 2008
DL is 2008
LB push
CB 2008
S 2015
zoogs
Assistant Coach
I'd argue against OL being a push. Our best lineman right now is ____ and our next best is _____ ?
'08 had some solid veterans. Not extraordinary, but it had come a long way since '04. It's probably not the most decisive advantage, but neither, for example, are the '15 WRs over the '08 WRs. This group is nice, but those guys were far from chopped liver, especially working in that offense. Neither, for that matter, were Asante and O'Hanlon.
TE, Cethan Carter, we've heard so much about the guy. 1 reception for 7 yards. Niles Paul, Curenski Gilleylen, Meno Holt all had plenty of hype once upon a time. Let's see him do something before we anoint him over Mike McNeil '08. Maybe he'll break out this year.
This talent discussion, it's like the '15 WRs and '15 LBs have not missed any games. Is it possible that health and depth are a big part of the reason why we're 1-2 in two razor sharp games?
Of course -- the most accurate picture we'll have is in retrospect. The season is young. We don't know what unknown name is a future all-conference standout.
'08 had some solid veterans. Not extraordinary, but it had come a long way since '04. It's probably not the most decisive advantage, but neither, for example, are the '15 WRs over the '08 WRs. This group is nice, but those guys were far from chopped liver, especially working in that offense. Neither, for that matter, were Asante and O'Hanlon.
TE, Cethan Carter, we've heard so much about the guy. 1 reception for 7 yards. Niles Paul, Curenski Gilleylen, Meno Holt all had plenty of hype once upon a time. Let's see him do something before we anoint him over Mike McNeil '08. Maybe he'll break out this year.
This talent discussion, it's like the '15 WRs and '15 LBs have not missed any games. Is it possible that health and depth are a big part of the reason why we're 1-2 in two razor sharp games?
Of course -- the most accurate picture we'll have is in retrospect. The season is young. We don't know what unknown name is a future all-conference standout.
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Saunders
Heisman Trophy Winner
QB - By years end, Armstrong will be much, much better than Ganz.
RB - Lucky didn't do much as a RB, and Hely didn't flourish until we changed offenses.
OL - Statistically, this OL is better at running and pass pro.
TE - Cethan Carter alone is better than any TE we had in 2008. Our best in '08 was... Dreu Young?
StPaulHusker
Banned
According to recruiting rankings 2004-2007 was better than 2012-2014. So 2008 had more talent than 2015.
Saunders
Heisman Trophy Winner
Correct. That D was stacked. Offense struggled for the 1st half of the year, before finding a niche. Still, as I said above, both teams are much, much more talented than 2004.
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Saunders
Heisman Trophy Winner
Dunno how I missed that thread. Thanks!
StPaulHusker
Banned
So if the 2008 team has more talent based on recruiting rankings than the 2015 team, how is 2015 more talented?
zoogs
Assistant Coach
There's no way, IMO, that Lewis-Utter-Reeves-Kondolo-Gates are better *right now* than the more veteran unit we had in '08. I'd give the edge for OL to '08 versus '14, too, no matter the stats that Ameer Abdullah put up. Mentioning this because it sort of looks like you're treating OL 2014 and OL 2015 as the same unit. I will say there's time for them to emerge as a force. Not sure they've shown indications of this so far.
There's some serious optimism here about Carter and Armstrong. Unless Armstrong does amazing things, it's going to be a push with 5th-year senior Ganz running that offense pretty darn well. Yes, he was a little mistake prone...so is Armstrong.
When Carter breaks out this year as promised, we can revisit that. He has not yet.
We can agree that the cupboard was much more bare in 2004. There's Bo Pelini recruiting and there's Frank Solich recruiting. This team has a shot at the B1G West, if guys stay healthy.
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StPaulHusker
Banned
Mike McNeill was the TE that year I believe. The 2008 OL has 3 guys that made NFL rosters,
Tommy Armstrong is on pace for 3891 yards. Ganz was 3568 in his one year starting.
Ganz finished 25/11 TD/INT. Armstrong is on 9-4 right now.
Armstrong might be better but I am not sure it will be much, much better
alwayshusking
Starter
The talent issue is probably best represented in this senior class. We have a large senior class but not many are guys that are really good players. Not many NFL players there, maybe 1 or 2 depending on how the season goes for them.
Allen, Taariq
Broekemeier, Tyson
Cockrell, Byerson
Cross, Imani
Davie, Daniel
Finnin, Matt
Gangwish, Jack
Janovich, Andy
Keels, Joe
Kondolo, Chongo
Lewis, Alex
Long, Chris
Price, Givens
Reeves, Ryne
Ridder, Anthony
Rose, Jonathan
Sterup, Zach
Sutton, David
Turner, Jamal
Williams, Kevin
Allen, Taariq
Broekemeier, Tyson
Cockrell, Byerson
Cross, Imani
Davie, Daniel
Finnin, Matt
Gangwish, Jack
Janovich, Andy
Keels, Joe
Kondolo, Chongo
Lewis, Alex
Long, Chris
Price, Givens
Reeves, Ryne
Ridder, Anthony
Rose, Jonathan
Sterup, Zach
Sutton, David
Turner, Jamal
Williams, Kevin
StPaulHusker
Banned
Saunders
Heisman Trophy Winner
I never said it was. I said it was much, much better than 2004. I introduced the comparison between 2008 and 2015 to show that it wasn't a landslide that 2008 was better in every category.