How good can we be with TM under center next year?

[lo country]

I think there is a great disparity in what it takes for a guy to get the hook.

Turner was not the only guy to drop a pass or two this year. He can't possibly be considered the worst offender there, either. Here's what he was, a dnamic, athletically gifted freshman who was the team's leading receiver at the time. He drops a couple passes in one game and doesn't play a snap for the rest of the regular season. Meanwhile, guys like Brandon Kinnie are getting their PT back.

We're a running based offense that asks Martinez to throw maybe 25 times a game. Turner struggled with blocking this year, partially because of his size. Obviously, Kinnie must have been doing OK in practice, but Kinnie was also a pretty good perimeter blocker as was Enunwa. Enunwa was very under-valued in fan eyes this year, imho. I don't remember how many drops he had, but he played great when blocking. Reed was horrible at best blocking and he was a friggin TE. Yet he continued to play.I think the coaches take blocking into HUGE consideration for the wide receivers. If you can't block, you're not playing.

Choi played balls out for so long, and Andrew Rodriguez still kept getting starts (I'm not sure when/if this ever changed).

You're riding Abdullah hard for fumble(s?) - how many did Taylor have, this year and last, without even a sliver of threat to his job?

Again, I will simply point to the fact that - for whatever reason - coaches believed Rodriguez deserved the playing time. It's also possible Choi was nursing some injuries. I have no idea, but if somebody is playing over someone else it's because they earned it. This is purely conjecture, but perhaps Choi wasn't performing well in practice? And we all know how the coaches feel about that. Then again, one could make the opposite argument and suggest guys that were performing well in practice weren't carrying over to game situations. I don't know the answer to this and nobody here does - as I said, this opinion is purely conjecture because I honestly don't know. Again, if the kids are not performing in game time, whose fault is that? Coaches?

It is very tough, IMO, on the young guys who do have talent, to play knowing that they are going to get yanked at the earliest opportunity. (you reference LSU and Bama's great recruits, but Green? Heard? Abdullah? Turner? these are all top-flight recruits) These guys should get the chance to develop and grow on the field - and especially for the young ones, to gain confidence. Exactly. Two blowout losses and nothing. WTH happened to Osbourne

I had a long response for this part, but by the time I came to the end I realized one easier way to say it - if they're not on the field, they need to get better in practice. It's the way coaches do things, regardless of the athlete's potential. It is what it is. Whether this is a coaching problem not getting these guys to play to there potential, or something else, I don't know. But from my perspective, practice should be a heavy focus for these guys. Yet we constantly play the guys who "know the defensive scheme" even though better athletes are on the bench to include starters from last year. How many of the top 25 had walkons starting in the D or O line?

 

[bshirt]

What helps a QB and receiver is to get in a "rhythm". If the passes are consistently thrown to numerous different areas, it is hard to get into a rhythm.

I've seen this argument you're eluding to been made before, and quite honestly it doesn't hold water with me. Given no defender interference, quarterbacks and wide receivers know where the ball is supposed to be - in the numbers. But it doesn't matter where the ball is - if the ball hits you in the hands, or is catchable, you make the catch. The idea that the WRs don't know where the ball is going to be and thus can't catch is total garbage. You know he's going to try and hit you in the numbers, but if he doesn't then you adjust. The wide receivers and Martinez know when and where a ball is supposed to be in a route. The wide receiver should not be worrying AT ALL about where the ball is actually going to be. They need to expect a perfect throw, and adjust to the not perfect ones. This is what every wide receiver is taught.

Our wide receivers straight up dropped catches they could have had all year long. Obviously, Martinez' throwing skills are nothing to praise, but I don't care if Martinez can't hit the broad side of a barn but 1/10 tries. When it does hit, you catch it - there's no plainer or simpler way to say it.

100% correct.

Dreaming up that the ball has to hit them between the numbers repeatably or they shouldn't be responsible for catching the ball is total, undiluted garbage.

Dreamed up scenario #2.....the qb & wr have to "be in rhythm" or again it's the qb's fault for the wrs dropping passes. Lol! Unbelievable...... My God, a good wr catches balls that hit his hands. Period.

For the last three years we've seen our wrs drop passes like flies regardless if it was Z. Lee or Tmart throwing the ball. Just because Lee or Tmart may not have spent every spare moment hugging trees with the wrs does not mean the wrs don't have to catch the ball.

Carnes wouldn't have thrown to the wrong receivers. Fact.

"Objective fact".

^_^

 

[CockInYourEar]

Let me preface by saying, I only watched 3 Nebraska games this year. However, TM could be a great QB, if he works on his release (speed and quickness) and goes through his check-downs at a faster pace. He's got the feet to keep the chains moving, but good defenses know how to stop mobile qb's now. Y'all's OL is good, as always, so he has time to throw, he's just got to make better decisions and improve accuracy.

 

[The Dude]

Let me preface by saying, I only watched only 3 Nebraska games this year. However, TM could be a great QB, if he works on his release (speed and quickness) and goes through his check-downs at a faster pace. He's got the feet to keep the chains moving, but good defenses know how to stop mobile qb's now. Y'all's OL is good, as always, so he has time to throw, he's just got to make better decisions and improve accuracy.

Thanks for the outside perspective.

 

[bshirt]

What helps a QB and receiver is to get in a "rhythm". If the passes are consistently thrown to numerous different areas, it is hard to get into a rhythm.

I've seen this argument you're eluding to been made before, and quite honestly it doesn't hold water with me. Given no defender interference, quarterbacks and wide receivers know where the ball is supposed to be - in the numbers. But it doesn't matter where the ball is - if the ball hits you in the hands, or is catchable, you make the catch. The idea that the WRs don't know where the ball is going to be and thus can't catch is total garbage. You know he's going to try and hit you in the numbers, but if he doesn't then you adjust. The wide receivers and Martinez know when and where a ball is supposed to be in a route. The wide receiver should not be worrying AT ALL about where the ball is actually going to be. They need to expect a perfect throw, and adjust to the not perfect ones. This is what every wide receiver is taught.

Our wide receivers straight up dropped catches they could have had all year long. Obviously, Martinez' throwing skills are nothing to praise, but I don't care if Martinez can't hit the broad side of a barn but 1/10 tries. When it does hit, you catch it - there's no plainer or simpler way to say it.

100% correct.

Dreaming up that the ball has to hit them between the numbers repeatably or they shouldn't be responsible for catching the ball is total, undiluted garbage.

Dreamed up scenario #2.....the qb & wr have to "be in rhythm" or again it's the qb's fault for the wrs dropping passes. Lol! Unbelievable...... My God, a good wr catches balls that hit his hands. Period.

For the last three years we've seen our wrs drop passes like flies regardless if it was Z. Lee or Tmart throwing the ball. Just because Lee or Tmart may not have spent every spare moment hugging trees with the wrs does not mean the wrs don't have to catch the ball.

Then it goes back to coaching. The ugly elephant in the room. This staff either completely sucks at recruiting or in player development. If no one wants to make Martinez take any responsibility for dropped balls than it is on the coaches, plain and simple. They pull JT, who was catching passes, leading receiver after 6 games, misses a catch at Minnesota and then name a drop drill after him. Then he is completely absent. Even if he practices like crap he was the leading receiver. Hey guess who actually got to see him during the recruiting, spring and fall. Wait for it, the coaches. Se a pattern here. It took them recruiting, spring and fall and six games to realize his practice ethics suck.. Really?! If he wasn't grassping the play book, it is the coaches job to design something, even 3 plays to get the kid the ball. His blocking stunk? So does Reeds. He didn't sit.

He drops balls, can't block anybody, can't remember his routes & dogs it at practice. Yeah, the coaches s*ck for not playing him anyway. Gotcha.

Yeah, Reed is a horrible blocker as well. Ask zoogies if he cares about that. I'll take Cotton any day but to each their own.

I thought coaching was the main problem too. If you recall, we just fired our wr coach last year. Didn't seem to matter much, huh? Maybe it takes more time? Maybe it just takes better players? Maybe both? I don't know.

 

[zoogs]

Reed doesn't start over Cotton, does he? Come on, it's not a Reed vs Cotton debate. Cotton is a darn solid TE for us. Reed is a mismatch whenever he is on the field. There is room for both of them and we've done that, or am I wrong?

I thought coaching was the main problem too. If you recall, we just fired our wr coach last year. Didn't seem to matter much, huh? Maybe it takes more time? Maybe it just takes better players? Maybe both? I don't know.

I think this year will also be telling, about our new WR coach. Fish and his position group are going to be one to watch for '12.

He drops balls, can't block anybody, can't remember his routes & dogs it at practice.

Man, you are hard on JT. He's an electric athlete. Greased lightning. In a bottle!

 

[The Dude]

He eats lightening and craps thunder!

 

[Enhance]

I think there is a great disparity in what it takes for a guy to get the hook.

Turner was not the only guy to drop a pass or two this year. He can't possibly be considered the worst offender there, either. Here's what he was, a dnamic, athletically gifted freshman who was the team's leading receiver at the time. He drops a couple passes in one game and doesn't play a snap for the rest of the regular season. Meanwhile, guys like Brandon Kinnie are getting their PT back.

We're a running based offense that asks Martinez to throw maybe 25 times a game. Turner struggled with blocking this year, partially because of his size. Obviously, Kinnie must have been doing OK in practice, but Kinnie was also a pretty good perimeter blocker as was Enunwa. Enunwa was very under-valued in fan eyes this year, imho. I don't remember how many drops he had, but he played great when blocking. Reed was horrible at best blocking and he was a friggin TE. Yet he continued to play.I think the coaches take blocking into HUGE consideration for the wide receivers. If you can't block, you're not playing.

Choi played balls out for so long, and Andrew Rodriguez still kept getting starts (I'm not sure when/if this ever changed).

You're riding Abdullah hard for fumble(s?) - how many did Taylor have, this year and last, without even a sliver of threat to his job?

Again, I will simply point to the fact that - for whatever reason - coaches believed Rodriguez deserved the playing time. It's also possible Choi was nursing some injuries. I have no idea, but if somebody is playing over someone else it's because they earned it. This is purely conjecture, but perhaps Choi wasn't performing well in practice? And we all know how the coaches feel about that. Then again, one could make the opposite argument and suggest guys that were performing well in practice weren't carrying over to game situations. I don't know the answer to this and nobody here does - as I said, this opinion is purely conjecture because I honestly don't know. Again, if the kids are not performing in game time, whose fault is that? Coaches?

It is very tough, IMO, on the young guys who do have talent, to play knowing that they are going to get yanked at the earliest opportunity. (you reference LSU and Bama's great recruits, but Green? Heard? Abdullah? Turner? these are all top-flight recruits) These guys should get the chance to develop and grow on the field - and especially for the young ones, to gain confidence. Exactly. Two blowout losses and nothing. WTH happened to Osbourne

I had a long response for this part, but by the time I came to the end I realized one easier way to say it - if they're not on the field, they need to get better in practice. It's the way coaches do things, regardless of the athlete's potential. It is what it is. Whether this is a coaching problem not getting these guys to play to there potential, or something else, I don't know. But from my perspective, practice should be a heavy focus for these guys. Yet we constantly play the guys who "know the defensive scheme" even though better athletes are on the bench to include starters from last year. How many of the top 25 had walkons starting in the D or O line?

Every single one of your concerns goes down to coaching, so I don't have any answers for you. If a player isn't playing, then they clearly aren't performing in practice. Whether that's a motivational issue, a coaching issue, both, or something else, I don't know. As far as Reed is concerned, again, it comes down to practice more than anything. If he's doing well in practice that's probably why he is playing. It's the coaches mantra.

 

[Hunter94]

Let me preface by saying, I only watched 3 Nebraska games this year. However, TM could be a great QB, if he works on his release (speed and quickness) and goes through his check-downs at a faster pace. He's got the feet to keep the chains moving, but good defenses know how to stop mobile qb's now. Y'all's OL is good, as always, so he has time to throw, he's just got to make better decisions and improve accuracy.

damn, what 3 games did you watch?

 

[CockInYourEar]

Let me preface by saying, I only watched 3 Nebraska games this year. However, TM could be a great QB, if he works on his release (speed and quickness) and goes through his check-downs at a faster pace. He's got the feet to keep the chains moving, but good defenses know how to stop mobile qb's now. Y'all's OL is good, as always, so he has time to throw, he's just got to make better decisions and improve accuracy.

damn, what 3 games did you watch?

USC, michigan and wisconsin. We have a duel threat QB, so I wanted to see how y'all played against that type of player during the year. (before our game)

 

[jsneb83]

Let me preface by saying, I only watched 3 Nebraska games this year. However, TM could be a great QB, if he works on his release (speed and quickness) and goes through his check-downs at a faster pace. He's got the feet to keep the chains moving, but good defenses know how to stop mobile qb's now. Y'all's OL is good, as always, so he has time to throw, he's just got to make better decisions and improve accuracy.

damn, what 3 games did you watch?

USC, michigan and wisconsin. We have a duel threat QB, so I wanted to see how y'all played against that type of player during the year. (before our game)

Must have been feeling pretty confident after watching those games didn't you. :LOLtartar

 

[2ndNnine]

Let me preface by saying, I only watched 3 Nebraska games this year. However, TM could be a great QB, if he works on his release (speed and quickness) and goes through his check-downs at a faster pace. He's got the feet to keep the chains moving, but good defenses know how to stop mobile qb's now. Y'all's OL is good, as always, so he has time to throw, he's just got to make better decisions and improve accuracy.

damn, what 3 games did you watch?

USC, michigan and wisconsin. We have a duel threat QB, so I wanted to see how y'all played against that type of player during the year. (before our game)

I would classify him as more of a dual threat... unless he is very skilled in fencing

 

[Enhance]

Then it goes back to coaching. The ugly elephant in the room. This staff either completely sucks at recruiting or in player development. If no one wants to make Martinez take any responsibility for dropped balls than it is on the coaches, plain and simple. They pull JT, who was catching passes, leading receiver after 6 games, misses a catch at Minnesota and then name a drop drill after him. Then he is completely absent. Even if he practices like crap he was the leading receiver. Hey guess who actually got to see him during the recruiting, spring and fall. Wait for it, the coaches. Se a pattern here. It took them recruiting, spring and fall and six games to realize his practice ethics suck.. Really?! If he wasn't grassping the play book, it is the coaches job to design something, even 3 plays to get the kid the ball. His blocking stunk? So does Reeds. He didn't sit.

First and foremost, there's a HUGE difference between spring football and the Fall season. Players don't practice near the hours, don't have near the student attention, don't have near the media attention and pretty much get to focus on themselves in the spring/summer. It's highly likely that when the season hit, and a lot more was asked of JT, he crumpled under the pressure. That's purely conjecture on my part, but it seems a lot more reasonable that my assumption is correct over your idea that either our coaches suck or our recruiting sucks. My theory is also more likely because this happens all the time to freshman when they get to college, especially athletes during the Fall.

Second, again, I think the best advice I can give you is to realize the methodology of our coaching staff. Practice correlates to games. JT admitted to dogging it in practice. It's pretty simple if you ask me. Coaches can only say so much to motivate a player - in the end, the player is responsible for his actions. I highly doubt it's a 'recruiting' issue, as you so naively suggested. I'm sure it's more of a "I'm an 18-year-old freshman playing for Nebraska"...issue.

 

[CockInYourEar]

Let me preface by saying, I only watched 3 Nebraska games this year. However, TM could be a great QB, if he works on his release (speed and quickness) and goes through his check-downs at a faster pace. He's got the feet to keep the chains moving, but good defenses know how to stop mobile qb's now. Y'all's OL is good, as always, so he has time to throw, he's just got to make better decisions and improve accuracy.

damn, what 3 games did you watch?

USC, michigan and wisconsin. We have a duel threat QB, so I wanted to see how y'all played against that type of player during the year. (before our game)

I would classify him as more of a dual threat... unless he is very skilled in fencing

Shaw is a robot, you can program him for just about anything. On game day, Spurrier just flips the switch to "Beast Mode".

 

[Joe_5700]

When the line can't block for Rex, it's the line's fault. When they can't block for Taylor, it's Taylor's fault.

You've proven my point. Most of you think its such a black and white matter. It's not. There's a lot of things that go into pass blocking. The offensive line, and the QB have to to be a functioning unit together. The offensive line have to have a feel for what the QB's tendencies are and vice versa. Run blocking is mostly based on execution at the point of attack. Pass blocking is much more complicated. It involves timing. How long the QB holds the ball, if a play breaks down, lineman having the ability to extend blocks for a QB, creating a pocket for the QB to step up in or roll out. Taylor has shown that there is clearly no telling what he might do when the play breaks down. Usually when a play breaks down with Taylor I think the lineman are much like me, just holding their breath praying he doesn't do something stupid.

Why is the play breaking down? Because of Martinez? Oh yeah, it is because of the horrible blocking up front...