Husker QBs

[bshirt]

The multiplicity we saw last year I think was a result of a first year of a new system and OC. Not to mention many young players. I think there was a lot of "let's see how this would work" and "I wonder if these guys could effectively execute this". I know practice should be for those things, but sometime it has to be tried in gametime. I just think there was a lot of experimenting going on. I have a feeling this year we'll see a better dedication to being really good at a certain few aspects and not trying to do so many different things now that the staff has a better grasp on what our capabilities are against new styles of defenses. That the other big issue that always seems to be forgotten in these discussions is playing in the new conference.

That's precisely my big hope too.

 

['SkersRule]

Multiple does not strictly mean running a lot of formations. I posted this in another thread

Multiple means being able to run every play 4 or 5 different ways nothing more. Nebraska under Tom Osborne was multiple because when he ran an Iso play it could be blocked 4, 5 or even 6 different ways. It was this approach that always kept opposing teams guessing what was coming next despite not throwing the ball much. Defenses key in on blocking schemes and use that to quickly diagnose the play. But if you can run a play and block it 4 or 5 different ways then it becomes much harder to key into. That's what Bo means when he says multiple.

 

[PaulCrewe]

SO I guess Martinez will be the First ever to start(a game) as a Freshman and end as a Senior....with/Redshirt?

Again, Eric Crouch.

I wonder if gin was tryin to say started Game 1 as a freshman and started every game until his final game as a senior. If that is the case, he would be the first in the modern era at DONU

 

[zoogs]

My football knowledge isn't the greatest, chris, so maybe you and bshirt can explain to me all the different OL schemes we had installed in 2010, and in 2011.

Or how spread, pistol, diamond formations involves fundamentally different OL techniques.

'SkersRule, I agree with that.

 

['SkersRule]

My football knowledge isn't the greatest, chris, so maybe you and bshirt can explain to me all the different OL schemes we had installed in 2010, and in 2011.

Or how spread, pistol, diamond formations involves fundamentally different OL techniques.

'SkersRule, I agree with that.

The offensive formation really doesn't have a whole lot to do with blocking schemes of the interior OL. What determines the blocking scheme of the OL is the alignment of the defense. To give a rather rudimentary example an offense is in 21 personnel 2 RB and 1 TE in a I-right set and the play is iso right against a 3-4. On this play the left tackle may block the DE, he might combo with the LG on the DE and then scrape to the next level to block either the LOLB or LILB. That's assuming of course that the defensive alignment is essentially a base set. Same offensive formation, personnel and play against a 4-3 the left OT may have to wall or seal off the backside DE or Will LB. He might even combo with the LG to block the DT and then scrape to the next level to pick up either the Mike or Will LB. This is of course assuming the defense plays base and doesn't blitz or stunt. Iso right out of 21 personnel and I-right set blocking schemes can also change if the defense shifts or slant the line, or move to an over set. If the defense blitzes that can change who blocks who drastically.

Edit: Interms of your question about OL schemes Nebraska installed in 2010 I don't know all the specifics but I do remember one change that Barney made was making the OL's first step up the field rather than lateral.

 

[Count 'Bility]

SO I guess Martinez will be the First ever to start(a game) as a Freshman and end as a Senior....with/Redshirt?

Again, Eric Crouch.

I wonder if gin was tryin to say started Game 1 as a freshman and started every game until his final game as a senior. If that is the case, he would be the first in the modern era at DONU

Don't know if this is quarterbacks only or anyone, but his name was mentioned earlier, and I'm pretty sure Ralph Brown is the only player to ever start every single game, freshman through senior, as a Husker (96-99)

 

[zoogs]

My football knowledge isn't the greatest, chris, so maybe you and bshirt can explain to me all the different OL schemes we had installed in 2010, and in 2011.

Or how spread, pistol, diamond formations involves fundamentally different OL techniques.

'SkersRule, I agree with that.

The offensive formation really doesn't have a whole lot to do with blocking schemes of the interior OL. What determines the blocking scheme of the OL is the alignment of the defense. To give a rather rudimentary example an offense is in 21 personnel 2 RB and 1 TE in a I-right set and the play is iso right against a 3-4. On this play the left tackle may block the DE, he might combo with the LG on the DE and then scrape to the next level to block either the LOLB or LILB. That's assuming of course that the defensive alignment is essentially a base set. Same offensive formation, personnel and play against a 4-3 the left OT may have to wall or seal off the backside DE or Will LB. He might even combo with the LG to block the DT and then scrape to the next level to pick up either the Mike or Will LB. This is of course assuming the defense plays base and doesn't blitz or stunt. Iso right out of 21 personnel and I-right set blocking schemes can also change if the defense shifts or slant the line, or move to an over set. If the defense blitzes that can change who blocks who drastically.

Edit: Interms of your question about OL schemes Nebraska installed in 2010 I don't know all the specifics but I do remember one change that Barney made was making the OL's first step up the field rather than lateral.

Thanks -- this was very good.

The point I am trying to make -- and I think your insight supports it -- is that I see no evidence of any claims that our offensive schemes the past few years required the implementation of multiple distinct OL schemes, causing too much to be on the plate for those guys and resulting in (I guess??? our disastrous rushing output???).

If there is any criticism to be made for the *scope* of our offense the past two years, it should be that it was far too limited. And that can't be helped really, with a young QB who is really growing on the job.

 

[zeWilbur]

My football knowledge isn't the greatest, chris, so maybe you and bshirt can explain to me all the different OL schemes we had installed in 2010, and in 2011.

Or how spread, pistol, diamond formations involves fundamentally different OL techniques.

'SkersRule, I agree with that.

The offensive formation really doesn't have a whole lot to do with blocking schemes of the interior OL. What determines the blocking scheme of the OL is the alignment of the defense. To give a rather rudimentary example an offense is in 21 personnel 2 RB and 1 TE in a I-right set and the play is iso right against a 3-4. On this play the left tackle may block the DE, he might combo with the LG on the DE and then scrape to the next level to block either the LOLB or LILB. That's assuming of course that the defensive alignment is essentially a base set. Same offensive formation, personnel and play against a 4-3 the left OT may have to wall or seal off the backside DE or Will LB. He might even combo with the LG to block the DT and then scrape to the next level to pick up either the Mike or Will LB. This is of course assuming the defense plays base and doesn't blitz or stunt. Iso right out of 21 personnel and I-right set blocking schemes can also change if the defense shifts or slant the line, or move to an over set. If the defense blitzes that can change who blocks who drastically.

Edit: Interms of your question about OL schemes Nebraska installed in 2010 I don't know all the specifics but I do remember one change that Barney made was making the OL's first step up the field rather than lateral.

Thanks -- this was very good.

The point I am trying to make -- and I think your insight supports it -- is that I see no evidence of any claims that our offensive schemes the past few years required the implementation of multiple distinct OL schemes, causing too much to be on the plate for those guys and resulting in (I guess??? our disastrous rushing output???).

If there is any criticism to be made for the *scope* of our offense the past two years, it should be that it was far too limited. And that can't be helped really, with a young QB who is really growing on the job.

Blocking primer for non big/ugly types. Fell free to tell me why you think it's wrong...

The difference is pretty big in change of technique and that is where the trouble comes in. If I recall correctly 2009 had an emphasis on a zone-blocking scheme, 2010 a spread scheme, 2011 a spread/power scheme.

In a zone scheme people move laterally and make sure that someone is blocked when they come into their area but still power based. Watching Michigan do this with Jake Long a few years back was thing of beauty. Usually single back with 1 or 2 tight ends where the back waits for a hole to open up.

A spread scheme tries to match up, win man to man, or just hold out until they can get they ball away. Much more finesse than power. Again, lots of lateral movement but much more emphasis on beating your man individually rather than the natural double teams that a zone scheme creates. Emphasis on double teaming a d-linemen while you can before going to get a linebacker. God only knows what the personnel will be. Usually something like single back and 1 or 0 tight ends.

Pass blocking for a spread will emphasize getting into your man quickly and keep him from getting his arms up even if you give ground faster. Bull rushers will cause the biggest problems here.

A power scheme is basically having more bodies at the point of attack. The emphasis is striking quickly and catching the defense in a bad position so it is less of an issue if your man beats you. Emphasis on driving the d-line into the linebackers to clog their lanes. Besides pulling, little to no lateral movement, just go. Double team wherever possible. Usually a 2 back set but many teams try to run power from a spread look now-a-days with mixed results.

Pass blocking for a power scheme will focus on maintaining space with the d-lineman while giving ground slowly as the routes tend to take longer. Speed rushers will cause the biggest problems here.

These are entirely different blocking philosophies that each have strengths and weaknesses. But figuring out who you are supposed to block, how to get there, when you are actually supposed to be there, what position you should be in when you get there, and trying to do it all when you are already blocking someone else is not easy. Mastering each one takes years and changing every year can be just as bad for a lineman as anyone else.

Unfortunately, the O-line scheme is tied to the overall offensive scheme which keeps changing and does require specific schemes because they require different skill sets. Spread is about getting the ball somewhere quickly whereas power is about being patient and waiting for a hole to open. The different formations lend themselves to different styles. A diamond formation is great for speed and deception but difficult to run power out of as the extra back is both probably not a great run blocker and not in a position to contribute at the point of attack. A pistol formation gives extra time to read a defense so it lends itself to the spread game. I-formation is great for power. Clearly we want to run them all.

Mostly, we need consistent reps. Just like everyone else...

 

['SkersRule]

zeWilbur, I don't think you're wrong in the literal sense. It's more of a slight degree. What I'm saying is that a team can still run power out of a spread and it doesn't necessarily have to be finese. Likewise, a zone scheme similar to what we had under our former head coach was incredibly soft and finese based. By contrast the zone scheme we ran under TO and Milt was as smash mouth as it gets. Regardless of a team's blocking scheme whether it is a zone, power, or spread concept it essentially comes down to the philosophy of the offense and what they're trying to accomplish.

 

[kchusker_chris]

Being able to specifically fit your OL to your scheme is a huge advantage. If there wasn't much of a difference in OL play between styles, then you'd recruit the exact same LT for a pro-style offense as you would Georgia Tech's option offense. But we all know that isn't the case. You saw it when Callahan came in. Our OL went from 6'5 310, to 6'8' 290 with long arms and quick feet. A guard that might be a great run blocker up the middle because of his size, is a really crappy blocker in the zone/read or option because he's slower and can't reach his block when he has to pull.

 

[bshirt]

Being able to specifically fit your OL to your scheme is a huge advantage. If there wasn't much of a difference in OL play between styles, then you'd recruit the exact same LT for a pro-style offense as you would Georgia Tech's option offense. But we all know that isn't the case. You saw it when Callahan came in. Our OL went from 6'5 310, to 6'8' 290 with long arms and quick feet. A guard that might be a great run blocker up the middle because of his size, is a really crappy blocker in the zone/read or option because he's slower and can't reach his block when he has to pull.

Or try to imagine a TO OLine getting stuffed all game long by NorthWestern.

It's easy as pie as fans to claim "Everything is the same, let's run anything we can think of!". In the real world though......

 

[kchusker_chris]

Or try to imagine a TO OLine getting stuffed all game long by NorthWestern.

It's easy as pie as fans to claim "Everything is the same, let's run anything we can think of!". In the real world though......

Exactly. And then to top it off you're going up against 8-9 guys in the box because a) we have an ineffective pass game, and b) we struggle to get outside the hash on run plays...so, we've got OL problems.

I'm not a fan of Barney, but I have to admit it's really difficult to judge this OL on last year alone (they got better as the year progressed IMO) - or even the second half of 2010. 2008/2009 with Watson here - at least the defenses were kept honest. You could tell those were some mediocre offensive lines. We didn't have to play against 8 guys in the box every single game. But, those same 5-6 guys are going up against an extra man or two now. To top it off we've got freshman running backs trying to pick up that pass rush...which obviously is going to be tough protecting against 4-6, let alone 7-8...so our RBs look like they can't block sometimes as well. End result is Rex plays about 25% more of the game than he should because he's the only one that can block out of the backfield. Same goes for TE. I think some of Reed's diminished role last year had to do w/ the defenses not being kept honest. Everything changed last year. At least when TO was coaching and they were loading the box, we had extra bodies to block because there likely wasn't 3 receivers on the field. And he could stretch the field horizontally - something Beck/T-Mart struggle to do.

 

[Hunter94]

Or try to imagine a TO OLine getting stuffed all game long by NorthWestern.

It's easy as pie as fans to claim "Everything is the same, let's run anything we can think of!". In the real world though......

Exactly. And then to top it off you're going up against 8-9 guys in the box because a) we have an ineffective pass game, and b) we struggle to get outside the hash on run plays...so, we've got OL problems.

I'm not a fan of Barney, but I have to admit it's really difficult to judge this OL on last year alone (they got better as the year progressed IMO) - or even the second half of 2010. 2008/2009 with Watson here - at least the defenses were kept honest. You could tell those were some mediocre offensive lines. We didn't have to play against 8 guys in the box every single game. But, those same 5-6 guys are going up against an extra man or two now. To top it off we've got freshman running backs trying to pick up that pass rush...which obviously is going to be tough protecting against 4-6, let alone 7-8...so our RBs look like they can't block sometimes as well. End result is Rex plays about 25% more of the game than he should because he's the only one that can block out of the backfield. Same goes for TE. I think some of Reed's diminished role last year had to do w/ the defenses not being kept honest. Everything changed last year. At least when TO was coaching and they were loading the box, we had extra bodies to block because there likely wasn't 3 receivers on the field. And he could stretch the field horizontally - something Beck/T-Mart struggle to do.

that and we hardly ever throw on 1st down.....God forbid we mix it up or stretch the field or back the LB's off some.......i can't imagine a 50/50 run/pass play calling this year, i think Beck is way too conservative for that....and busy getting out of a game while protecting a small lead.

 

[gin_32]

SO I guess Martinez will be the First ever to start(a game) as a Freshman and end as a Senior....with/Redshirt?

Again, Eric Crouch.

I wonder if gin was tryin to say started Game 1 as a freshman and started every game until his final game as a senior. If that is the case, he would be the first in the modern era at DONU

yes that's what I meant....start every game and finish every game from Freshman to Senior at QB.....

 

[lo country]

Being able to specifically fit your OL to your scheme is a huge advantage. If there wasn't much of a difference in OL play between styles, then you'd recruit the exact same LT for a pro-style offense as you would Georgia Tech's option offense. But we all know that isn't the case. You saw it when Callahan came in. Our OL went from 6'5 310, to 6'8' 290 with long arms and quick feet. A guard that might be a great run blocker up the middle because of his size, is a really crappy blocker in the zone/read or option because he's slower and can't reach his block when he has to pull.

Great point. I really think this translate to some of woes across the board. We run spread one year and recruit guys for it. We change the scheme and "these guys" particular skill set don't work and that guy doesn't see the field and the schollie is unavailable even though the guy never sees a snap. Hard to get a guy to commit when he (the recruit) has no real idea what type of O we run and as a fan, I really don't either. Another example is to look at where a kid plays in college and where the draft gurus often see them. ie some DT's would fit as a DE in the next level. David projected as a safety or in "certain teams" where they need a LB to cover TE's ie teams going against Gron and Hernandez.

I think it is very hard to very good at anything if we continually try to do everything.

Finding an identity, developing consistency and recruiting kids for "our system" will go a long way in getting where we want to be.