Team MVP

[Pedro Guerrero]

Sorry next time I’ll just post a stock answer and give Ganz some more leg humping.

Actually, I was thinking maybe just a wee bit less leg humping of Pud and Clownahan.

That might make since if I was always talking about how great those guys are like some on here do with Ganz. The man crushes that some have on Ganz are pretty disturbing and a little bit weird. :wub:

If I ever seriously stick up for Pederson or Callahan it is because nobody else around here will. If that makes me a leg humper :leghump: then I guess I am. I didn’t think that is what the saying meant but I guess I better get out my urban dictionary to find out for sure.

Like I said above I vote for Suh for MVP. It will be harder to replace him (if he leaves) and his production compared to Ganz. IMO

 

[zE bOp]

People can mark this down or whatever you do with predictions, if Suh leaves the DL play will suffer a lot more next year without him then the QB play will without Ganz.

C'mon, you can't be serious. I didn't see Suh as a dominant force by any means, Yea, he was good and improved, yada yada, but there's just no comparison to him and Ganz. Ganz is motor of this team. Swift next, dude was 'money'. Then probably a tie beteween Suh and Helu.

I also think Cody Glenn was one of our best defenders.

 

[Pedro Guerrero]

People can mark this down or whatever you do with predictions, if Suh leaves the DL play will suffer a lot more next year without him then the QB play will without Ganz.

C'mon, you can't be serious. I didn't see Suh as a dominant force by any means, Yea, he was good and improved, yada yada, but there's just no comparison to him and Ganz. Ganz is motor of this team. Swift next, dude was 'money'. Then probably a tie beteween Suh and Helu.

I also think Cody Glenn was one of our best defenders.

Name the last really good Defensive Tackle we have until this year with Suh. Remember Suh was 1st or 2nd Team All Big 12. I would say that we haven't seen that at DL since Steve Warren in 1999. He led the team in tackles, tackles for loss and tied for the team led for QB hurries, sacks and interceptions from the DL spot. When has that happened? He also had 2 defensive TD's.

Now turn around and name the last really good QB that was here. I won't count Keller because some would flip if I did. So I will go back all the way to 2006 with Big 12 Offensive Player of the Year Zac Taylor.

Which one has taken longer to find? That is my point.

 

[junior4949]

Maybe a better question to provide an answer is what did each do in our losses? I mean did Suh have a great game against Mizzou, OU, TT, and VT? I think Suh all but gift wrapped a TD for VT. Suh is a great player, and he's the most improved D player on the team. However, how many games did his play win for us? He did have 2 INT's, but so did Potter. Potter also had as many sacks. Our front 4 ended the regular season 1, 4, 6, & 7 in tackles. Suh had a great season, but so did the rest of the front 4. I don't think he's the MVP of the team.

 

[ray233]

My MVP is Joe "Pony Boy" Ganz....hanz down.

One thing to keep in context with Ganz too, is that prior to this season, he only had 3 games of starting experience. This kid was brand new, but played and led like a veteran all season.

If you could pick one player to keep for another year (that is out of eligibility), who would it be?

I'd take Ganz.

 

[holvy83]

i knew Ganz would be a favorite, but personaly I do not feel he was our game changer either. Love the arguments for Suh and Swift, both very deserving. Does the team actually vote for any team MVP's?

 

[junior4949]

Sorry next time I’ll just post a stock answer and give Ganz some more leg humping.

Actually, I was thinking maybe just a wee bit less leg humping of Pud and Clownahan.

That might make since if I was always talking about how great those guys are like some on here do with Ganz. The man crushes that some have on Ganz are pretty disturbing and a little bit weird. :wub:

If I ever seriously stick up for Pederson or Callahan it is because nobody else around here will. If that makes me a leg humper :leghump: then I guess I am. I didn’t think that is what the saying meant but I guess I better get out my urban dictionary to find out for sure.

Like I said above I vote for Suh for MVP. It will be harder to replace him (if he leaves) and his production compared to Ganz. IMO

Well, let's see how the replacement for Turner went. Allen ended up 4th in tackles even though he started 2 games less than Suh. He ended up with just 1.5 sacks less than Suh, yet he started 2 games less than Suh.

Potter didn't have as many tackles as Suh, but his stats tie or are better in about every other category. They both had 5.5 sacks. They both had 2 INT's, and keep in mind Suh's INT's came from Potter pass break ups. Potter had twice as many pass break ups as Suh. They both had 6 QB hurries. Both had a forced fumble. Potter had 3 blocked kicks to Suh's 1. From the stats, it's hard to argue that Suh had a better season than Potter. I don't see how he can be the MVP.

Now if you want me to go through the stats between Ganz and his backup, I can. However, I think you get the point that they'll be pretty one sided.

 

[huskerswrkhavoc]

People can mark this down or whatever you do with predictions, if Suh leaves the DL play will suffer a lot more next year without him then the QB play will without Ganz.

C'mon, you can't be serious. I didn't see Suh as a dominant force by any means, Yea, he was good and improved, yada yada, but there's just no comparison to him and Ganz. Ganz is motor of this team. Swift next, dude was 'money'. Then probably a tie beteween Suh and Helu.

I also think Cody Glenn was one of our best defenders.

Name the last really good Defensive Tackle we have until this year with Suh. Remember Suh was 1st or 2nd Team All Big 12. I would say that we haven't seen that at DL since Steve Warren in 1999. He led the team in tackles, tackles for loss and tied for the team led for QB hurries, sacks and interceptions from the DL spot. When has that happened? He also had 2 defensive TD's.

Now turn around and name the last really good QB that was here. I won't count Keller because some would flip if I did. So I will go back all the way to 2006 with Big 12 Offensive Player of the Year Zac Taylor.

Which one has taken longer to find? That is my point.

While i completely agree with the statement that started this little "quote" that if we lose Suh, the line will struggle a lot more than if we didnt lose Suh... BUT do you think that we found more playmaker QB's because that was what that regime wanted? That's what they recruited? Or is it just because there are simply much less great DT's out there? I honestly don't know how to answer that... just food for thought.

 

[huskerswrkhavoc]

Sorry next time I’ll just post a stock answer and give Ganz some more leg humping.

Actually, I was thinking maybe just a wee bit less leg humping of Pud and Clownahan.

That might make since if I was always talking about how great those guys are like some on here do with Ganz. The man crushes that some have on Ganz are pretty disturbing and a little bit weird. :wub:

If I ever seriously stick up for Pederson or Callahan it is because nobody else around here will. If that makes me a leg humper :leghump: then I guess I am. I didn’t think that is what the saying meant but I guess I better get out my urban dictionary to find out for sure.

Like I said above I vote for Suh for MVP. It will be harder to replace him (if he leaves) and his production compared to Ganz. IMO

Well, let's see how the replacement for Turner went. Allen ended up 4th in tackles even though he started 2 games less than Suh. He ended up with just 1.5 sacks less than Suh, yet he started 2 games less than Suh.

Potter didn't have as many tackles as Suh, but his stats tie or are better in about every other category. They both had 5.5 sacks. They both had 2 INT's, and keep in mind Suh's INT's came from Potter pass break ups. Potter had twice as many pass break ups as Suh. They both had 6 QB hurries. Both had a forced fumble. Potter had 3 blocked kicks to Suh's 1. From the stats, it's hard to argue that Suh had a better season than Potter. I don't see how he can be the MVP.

Now if you want me to go through the stats between Ganz and his backup, I can. However, I think you get the point that they'll be pretty one sided.

Note: It is easier to get to the QB and make tackles from the DE position especially with all the focus on going outside in the big 12....

 

[zE bOp]

People can mark this down or whatever you do with predictions, if Suh leaves the DL play will suffer a lot more next year without him then the QB play will without Ganz.

C'mon, you can't be serious. I didn't see Suh as a dominant force by any means, Yea, he was good and improved, yada yada, but there's just no comparison to him and Ganz. Ganz is motor of this team. Swift next, dude was 'money'. Then probably a tie beteween Suh and Helu.

I also think Cody Glenn was one of our best defenders.

Name the last really good Defensive Tackle we have until this year with Suh. Remember Suh was 1st or 2nd Team All Big 12. I would say that we haven't seen that at DL since Steve Warren in 1999. He led the team in tackles, tackles for loss and tied for the team led for QB hurries, sacks and interceptions from the DL spot. When has that happened? He also had 2 defensive TD's.

Now turn around and name the last really good QB that was here. I won't count Keller because some would flip if I did. So I will go back all the way to 2006 with Big 12 Offensive Player of the Year Zac Taylor.

Which one has taken longer to find? That is my point.

I'm not saying Suh isn't good and one of the best DLs we've had in awhile, I'm just saying he isn't close to Ganz as being the MVP of the team. If Suh had a ton of sacks and our D was holding other teams to less than 15-20 pts/game, then yes, I would consider him more.

I think Ganz surpassed ZT in single season passing record.

 

[zE bOp]

Maybe a better question to provide an answer is what did each do in our losses? I mean did Suh have a great game against Mizzou, OU, TT, and VT? I think Suh all but gift wrapped a TD for VT. Suh is a great player, and he's the most improved D player on the team. However, how many games did his play win for us? He did have 2 INT's, but so did Potter. Potter also had as many sacks. Our front 4 ended the regular season 1, 4, 6, & 7 in tackles. Suh had a great season, but so did the rest of the front 4. I don't think he's the MVP of the team.

yea, Potter is as valuable as Suh.

 

[Pedro Guerrero]

Sorry next time I’ll just post a stock answer and give Ganz some more leg humping.

Actually, I was thinking maybe just a wee bit less leg humping of Pud and Clownahan.

That might make since if I was always talking about how great those guys are like some on here do with Ganz. The man crushes that some have on Ganz are pretty disturbing and a little bit weird. :wub:

If I ever seriously stick up for Pederson or Callahan it is because nobody else around here will. If that makes me a leg humper :leghump: then I guess I am. I didn’t think that is what the saying meant but I guess I better get out my urban dictionary to find out for sure.

Like I said above I vote for Suh for MVP. It will be harder to replace him (if he leaves) and his production compared to Ganz. IMO

Well, let's see how the replacement for Turner went. Allen ended up 4th in tackles even though he started 2 games less than Suh. He ended up with just 1.5 sacks less than Suh, yet he started 2 games less than Suh.

Potter didn't have as many tackles as Suh, but his stats tie or are better in about every other category. They both had 5.5 sacks. They both had 2 INT's, and keep in mind Suh's INT's came from Potter pass break ups. Potter had twice as many pass break ups as Suh. They both had 6 QB hurries. Both had a forced fumble. Potter had 3 blocked kicks to Suh's 1. From the stats, it's hard to argue that Suh had a better season than Potter. I don't see how he can be the MVP.

Now if you want me to go through the stats between Ganz and his backup, I can. However, I think you get the point that they'll be pretty one sided.

Comparing Suh and Potter is not the same as comparing Ganz and the backups. It isn’t even close. The Suh to Potter thing is like comparing Swift and Peterson. They both played at the same time. Ganz never left the game to get the back up in the game anyway. On that token compare Suh’s back-ups production to his and it will be the same as Ganz-Witt/Lee is.

As far as how they played in the losses, does it matter because we lost so neither of them did enough to win. Couldn’t you say that Ganz’ interception against Texas Tech trumps or is the same as Suh’s penalty against Va-Tech?

For the record Potter had 25 less tackles then Suh (33 solo 35 assists compared to 13 solo and 30 assists). Potter had a really good year and probably made himself some money because of it. Suh’s back-up Terrance Moore : 8 tackles (3 solo and 5 assists, 2 TFL, 2 Sacks).

 

[junior4949]

For the record, Suh's backup had almost half as many sacks as Suh. Did Witt have half as many TD's as Ganz? Without Potter breaking up those passes, Suh has zero INT's. The reason Ganz never left the game probably has more to do with the coaches not having much/any faith at all in the backups. I still stand by my original argument. NU has the same record at 8-4 if Suh goes down to injury early in the season like Turner did. NU does not have the same record at 8-4 if Ganz goes down to injury early in the season. This is how I compare the two with regards to an MVP season.

 

[father5]

For the record, Suh's backup had almost half as many sacks as Suh. Did Witt have half as many TD's as Ganz? Without Potter breaking up those passes, Suh has zero INT's. The reason Ganz never left the game probably has more to do with the coaches not having much/any faith at all in the backups. I still stand by my original argument. NU has the same record at 8-4 if Suh goes down to injury early in the season like Turner did. NU does not have the same record at 8-4 if Ganz goes down to injury early in the season. This is how I compare the two with regards to an MVP season.

I can accept or at least consider almost any argument for or against Suh or Ganz either way, it's a fun debate. However, this....

"NU has the same record at 8-4 if Suh goes down to injury early in the season like Turner did."

.... I can't agree with. Teams win and lose games in the trenches. Suh's value to the team is much more difficult to see tangibly than Ganz's value. You can't measure the disruption that a DL can have on a game when he is dominating and doesn't record a stat. To paraphrase another board member... you can't only use stats to measure greatness. Suh, however, does have great stats for a DL and his value is even better than those stats would indicate. I think our DBs (with all of their wealth of experience) might appreciate the plays that they make because of something Suh does or something the offense does to game plan because of him. Ganz is the easy pick to make. You Ganz guys may still be right, I'm not infallible by any stretch, I just think for my money... it's Suh. JMHO

 

[Pedro Guerrero]

For the record, Suh's backup had almost half as many sacks as Suh. Did Witt have half as many TD's as Ganz? Without Potter breaking up those passes, Suh has zero INT's. The reason Ganz never left the game probably has more to do with the coaches not having much/any faith at all in the backups. I still stand by my original argument. NU has the same record at 8-4 if Suh goes down to injury early in the season like Turner did. NU does not have the same record at 8-4 if Ganz goes down to injury early in the season. This is how I compare the two with regards to an MVP season.

I still stand by my statement that it will be easier to replace Ganz and his production compared to Suh and his. Like I said when was the last time we had a 1st/2nd Team All Big 12 DL and the answer was 1999. So wouldn’t that show you that Suh is not as replaceable as you try to make out to be? Plug in Terrance Moore and it is business as usual? I don’t buy it. But as Ganz has shown by following so closely behind Zac Taylor, pretty good QB’s come around more often and are a little easier to replace.

So what that Suh wouldn’t have his Interceptions if it wasn’t for Potter, Ganz had a lot of help compiling his stats no didn’t he? Receivers catching passes, OL blocking etc.

I don’t like that the stock answer for everything as far as football MVP’s go is just pick a QB. I just think that is way to easy and people just always fall back on that because that is who gets the most face time on TV and in the press. It doesn’t hurt that a lot of folks have a chubby for Ganz and think he can do no wrong.

Ganz had a very good season and if people want him to be the MVP I have no problem with that. I may not agree but I’m fine with it.