Team MVP

[Cy the Cyclone]

Ganz...Suh...

I'd throw my MVP vote to Henery.

You guys can argue back and forth over what would have happened if Ganz or Suh had been injured and how the guys behind them would have played in their places but just think of the train wreck that would have developed with Henery injured...ask Colorado how important a kicker is.

Kickers never get no love around here.... <_<

 

[Pedro Guerrero]

If you have a crap QB and a great DT you're not gonna win too many games. They don't call the QB the field general for nothing. As the QB goes, so goes the team in most cases, it's just the way it is.

This is true, but then you are not really talking about the 2008 Huskers with that statement. Without Ganz we don't neccessarily have a crap QB, just an unproven one. On the DL, though, we don't have any true killers except for Suh.

Junior made some good points that the DL had very good stats across the board. It's true. However, while I hate to look stubborn, I honestly believe that the whole line benefits from a guy like Suh. Oh well, I guess I'm stubborn. At least I admit it. Great thread.

I hate to look stubborn, but I honestly believe Suh benefitted from guys like Potter and Steinkuhler. It's already been noted that Suh's INT's came from deflected passes by Potter. When you lose a starter and the backup comes in on the DL and ends the season ranked #4 for tackles, I think the argument that you can't plug in another DL without drop off kind of doesn't hold water.

Did you ever stop to think that maybe there wasn’t that much difference between Allen and Turner? Allen was going to play even if Turner didn’t get hurt. He was the top back-up for both Potter and Turner and it was said he was going to play just not start. You can’t say the same for Terrance Moore as he only played in 7 games.

Also couldn’t you say that Steinkuhler and Potter benefited because of Suh? If I’m not mistaken Suh was the only lineman taking on 2 games every game.

Whatever though I’m not going to change my mind about Suh so it doesn’t matter. He is the best DT to come through here in awhile and that is a fact. You don’t just throw in any old DT and replace that.

Like I have pointed out numerous times:

Big 12 Player of the Year 2006 – QB Zac Taylor 2 years ago

1st Team All Big 12 DL 1999 – DT Steve Warren 9 years ago

Which seems harder to replace?

 

[HUSKER FREAK]

I absolutely believe that Suh would be really hard to replace. He played outstanding the second half of the season. What people have to remember the rest of the line benefited from Suh as Suh did from them they played well together. The first responsibility of the D-line is to plug the middle to help free up the LB's and then pursue with penetration to the ball carrier or QB depending on the situation. IMO Steinkuhler was very underated this year and did a good job and so did Alen and Potter, but Suh IMO is something special.

It will be hard to see Ganz go. I think his charector outweighed his talent and that's why he ended up being so good. I do think that we will find a suitable backup to replace him though.

 

[holvy83]

I agree that NU would not be here without Ganz, but we would not be here without a lot of the players. A QB would be the MVP for every team with his numbers, but Ganz was not my pick just because of statistics, like i said before he was not the "game changer" of this season in my opinion.

 

[caveman99]

On another note, who started the NC game in 1994? Yes, it was none other than Tommie. Why was he replaced by Berringer? Because he threw a costly INT. It was the OL that dominated that game which sprung Schlesinger for those TD's. IMO, it's naive to believe we don't win that game with Berringer running the team. Berringer did throw a pic as well, but at least it was in the endzone going for a score and pinned Miami deep.

TO went to Tommie in the beggining of the 4th QTR when the game was on the line down 17-9. Tommie led the two drives that tied and went ahead, even threw the pass that completed the 2-point play to tie the game. In several articles after the game, many reporters talked about how TO kept saying to his staff that he wanted the ball in Tommie's hands when it counted. Oh and you can't say that Berringer's pass didn't hurt. They had gotten the ball on UM's 4 yard line, goal to go down 17-9 and trying to scratch their way back into the game. That one hurt, if it wasn't for the D bailing him out by their unbelievable level of play, that play could have swung the momentum into UM's hand for good.

I agree that both Ganz and Suh were very key cogs to the team. I agree with Newearth that a stud DT is absolutely the hardest player to find and maybe tougher to replace overall. However I am not sure the difficultly level in recruiting great players at a position should be used to measure an individual's value to a team. I would tend to want to look at the value of the play during the season and effect it had on the team. It is a hard one to decide, but in looking at this I would have to say what unit was more instrumental to the success of the team, the Defense or Offense? Ganz was more than just a great player, he orchestrated that offense. He makes the checks and audibles that make them successful, the offense finished as the 12th best in the nation. Their ability to score alot all the while eating up 40 minutes a game was the primary reason for the team's success. That is why I would pick Ganz.

 

[junior4949]

If you have a crap QB and a great DT you're not gonna win too many games. They don't call the QB the field general for nothing. As the QB goes, so goes the team in most cases, it's just the way it is.

This is true, but then you are not really talking about the 2008 Huskers with that statement. Without Ganz we don't neccessarily have a crap QB, just an unproven one. On the DL, though, we don't have any true killers except for Suh.

Junior made some good points that the DL had very good stats across the board. It's true. However, while I hate to look stubborn, I honestly believe that the whole line benefits from a guy like Suh. Oh well, I guess I'm stubborn. At least I admit it. Great thread.

I hate to look stubborn, but I honestly believe Suh benefitted from guys like Potter and Steinkuhler. It's already been noted that Suh's INT's came from deflected passes by Potter. When you lose a starter and the backup comes in on the DL and ends the season ranked #4 for tackles, I think the argument that you can't plug in another DL without drop off kind of doesn't hold water.

Did you ever stop to think that maybe there wasn’t that much difference between Allen and Turner? Allen was going to play even if Turner didn’t get hurt. He was the top back-up for both Potter and Turner and it was said he was going to play just not start. You can’t say the same for Terrance Moore as he only played in 7 games.

Also couldn’t you say that Steinkuhler and Potter benefited because of Suh? If I’m not mistaken Suh was the only lineman taking on 2 games every game.

Whatever though I’m not going to change my mind about Suh so it doesn’t matter. He is the best DT to come through here in awhile and that is a fact. You don’t just throw in any old DT and replace that.

Like I have pointed out numerous times:

Big 12 Player of the Year 2006 – QB Zac Taylor 2 years ago

1st Team All Big 12 DL 1999 – DT Steve Warren 9 years ago

Which seems harder to replace?

This is what I was getting at. Steinkuhler and Potter did benefit from Suh, but Suh also benefitted from them. Steinkuhler did keep the OL honest and did keep a lot of doubles off of Suh. IMO, he was the most underrated of all on the DL.

I'm thinking several teams would probably argue your point that it's harder to replace a DL than it is a QB. Ask Stoops how he faired replacing Bomar after he had to kick him off the team. How did Texas fair after Young graduated? How did we fair when replacing Berringer and Frazier or Frost or Crouch? I would argue that it's harder to replace a good/great center than it is a DL. The center and the QB touch the ball every single offensive snap. If something breaks down there, then the entire team is in trouble. In 2007, we had to replace Taylor. How did that go?

Suh had a great year, and he is a great player. However without Ganz, I still say we don't have the record we have now. TT lit our D up, but the game was taken into overtime because TT had very limited chances and time with the ball due to our offense controlling the ball and the clock. Didn't we end up #1 in time of possession this year? The field general was the reason we won and stayed in games. The offense ended up 18th in scoring offense while the defense ended up 84th in points allowed and they didn't even break into the top 25 in sacks.

 

[caveman99]

I'm thinking several teams would probably argue your point that it's harder to replace a DL than it is a QB. Ask Stoops how he faired replacing Bomar after he had to kick him off the team. How did Texas fair after Young graduated? How did we fair when replacing Berringer and Frazier or Frost or Crouch? I would argue that it's harder to replace a good/great center than it is a DL. The center and the QB touch the ball every single offensive snap. If something breaks down there, then the entire team is in trouble. In 2007, we had to replace Taylor. How did that go?

Bad examples

After Bomar came Brafford

After Vince Young came McCoy

 

[junior4949]

On another note, who started the NC game in 1994? Yes, it was none other than Tommie. Why was he replaced by Berringer? Because he threw a costly INT. It was the OL that dominated that game which sprung Schlesinger for those TD's. IMO, it's naive to believe we don't win that game with Berringer running the team. Berringer did throw a pic as well, but at least it was in the endzone going for a score and pinned Miami deep.

TO went to Tommie in the beggining of the 4th QTR when the game was on the line down 17-9. Tommie led the two drives that tied and went ahead, even threw the pass that completed the 2-point play to tie the game. In several articles after the game, many reporters talked about how TO kept saying to his staff that he wanted the ball in Tommie's hands when it counted. Oh and you can't say that Berringer's pass didn't hurt. They had gotten the ball on UM's 4 yard line, goal to go down 17-9 and trying to scratch their way back into the game. That one hurt, if it wasn't for the D bailing him out by their unbelievable level of play, that play could have swung the momentum into UM's hand for good.

I agree that both Ganz and Suh were very key cogs to the team. I agree with Newearth that a stud DT is absolutely the hardest player to find and maybe tougher to replace overall. However I am not sure the difficultly level in recruiting great players at a position should be used to measure an individual's value to a team. I would tend to want to look at the value of the play during the season and effect it had on the team. It is a hard one to decide, but in looking at this I would have to say what unit was more instrumental to the success of the team, the Defense or Offense? Ganz was more than just a great player, he orchestrated that offense. He makes the checks and audibles that make them successful, the offense finished as the 12th best in the nation. Their ability to score alot all the while eating up 40 minutes a game was the primary reason for the team's success. That is why I would pick Ganz.

Frazier's INT is what swung the momentum in the first place that had us down 17-9. His INT gave Miami much better field position than Berringer's INT gave them. All turnovers hurt. It's one thing to give the ball up making the opponent drive 80 yards to score. It's completely another to give the ball up with a short field. The 94' NC game was won in the trenches. It wasn't won by the play of the QB. Our OL made Sapp their b!^@h in the 2nd half. I think we would have won the game with Turman playing QB.

 

[Pedro Guerrero]

I'm thinking several teams would probably argue your point that it's harder to replace a DL than it is a QB. Ask Stoops how he faired replacing Bomar after he had to kick him off the team. How did Texas fair after Young graduated? How did we fair when replacing Berringer and Frazier or Frost or Crouch? I would argue that it's harder to replace a good/great center than it is a DL. The center and the QB touch the ball every single offensive snap. If something breaks down there, then the entire team is in trouble. In 2007, we had to replace Taylor. How did that go?

Bad examples

After Bomar came Brafford

After Vince Young came McCoy

I also stated in an early post that you can’t count USC, OU, Texas, OSU because they just reload every year. They are different then the rest of the country.

Didn’t OU win the Big 12 the year they booted Bomar and the 2 years following that? Isn’t the QB that followed Young up for the Heisman and has only lost a handful of games since taking over?

As for 2007 our QB play wasn’t the problem. Our offense put up points the defense sucked.

Keller – 205/325/2422/14 TD/10 INT/63.1%/133.74 Rating

Ganz – 89/152/1435/16 TD/7 INT/58.6%/163.38 Rating

Together – 294/477/3857/30 TD/17 INT/61.6% (seems pretty respectable to me)

Like I said I have no problem with people picking Ganz that is fine. But nobody is going to convince me that Suh can be replaced with any old DT.

 

[junior4949]

I'm thinking several teams would probably argue your point that it's harder to replace a DL than it is a QB. Ask Stoops how he faired replacing Bomar after he had to kick him off the team. How did Texas fair after Young graduated? How did we fair when replacing Berringer and Frazier or Frost or Crouch? I would argue that it's harder to replace a good/great center than it is a DL. The center and the QB touch the ball every single offensive snap. If something breaks down there, then the entire team is in trouble. In 2007, we had to replace Taylor. How did that go?

Bad examples

After Bomar came Brafford

After Vince Young came McCoy

Wow, I must have slept through an entire year because I don't recall Bradford taking one single snap the year Bomar was kicked off the team. If there were no signficance to replacing a QB, then why has Stoops only lost I believe twice at home while coaching at OU and one of those times was to TCU the year he kicked Bomar off the team. This is significant in my mind.

We've had great DL go through here before. We have replaced them the following year with little drop off. It's pretty hard to argue we never saw drop off when replacing a QB even though the QB that replaced them maybe turned out great later on in their career. I mean we replaced Tomich and C. Peters, but we continued to win NC. We struggled in 96' with a new QB losing nearly as many games in 96' as we did Frazier's entire career preceeding the 96' season.

 

[junior4949]

Actually, I do think there's a huge problem when you have a QB throw 14 TD and then 10 INT's. There's also a problem with a QB throwing 16TD's followed up with 7 INT's.

 

[junior4949]

Florida and USC lost DL taken in the first 8 picks of the draft, yet they ended the season with a D that ranked #1 and #5 respectively. Clemson lost a good DL, yet they ended with a top 10 D. Auburn lost a good DL, yet their D ended up strong while their O was dismal at best.

 

[zE bOp]

If you have a crap QB and a great DT you're not gonna win too many games. They don't call the QB the field general for nothing. As the QB goes, so goes the team in most cases, it's just the way it is.

This is true, but then you are not really talking about the 2008 Huskers with that statement. Without Ganz we don't neccessarily have a crap QB, just an unproven one. On the DL, though, we don't have any true killers except for Suh.

Junior made some good points that the DL had very good stats across the board. It's true. However, while I hate to look stubborn, I honestly believe that the whole line benefits from a guy like Suh. Oh well, I guess I'm stubborn. At least I admit it. Great thread.

I hate to look stubborn, but I honestly believe Suh benefitted from guys like Potter and Steinkuhler. It's already been noted that Suh's INT's came from deflected passes by Potter. When you lose a starter and the backup comes in on the DL and ends the season ranked #4 for tackles, I think the argument that you can't plug in another DL without drop off kind of doesn't hold water.

On another note, who started the NC game in 1994? Yes, it was none other than Tommie. Why was he replaced by Berringer? Because he threw a costly INT. It was the OL that dominated that game which sprung Schlesinger for those TD's. IMO, it's naive to believe we don't win that game with Berringer running the team. Berringer did throw a pic as well, but at least it was in the endzone going for a score and pinned Miami deep.

Well, since Berringer had been starting a few previous games and been doing alright they felt they wanted to see what he could do vs MIA. So they stuck him in there in the 2nd qtr I think. I think OZ went into the game with the idea of giving each QB 2 qtrs of playing time. But everybody was yelling for Tommie sometime in the 3rd qtr. And the difference was obvious, he started making plays.

 

[caveman99]

I'm thinking several teams would probably argue your point that it's harder to replace a DL than it is a QB. Ask Stoops how he faired replacing Bomar after he had to kick him off the team. How did Texas fair after Young graduated? How did we fair when replacing Berringer and Frazier or Frost or Crouch? I would argue that it's harder to replace a good/great center than it is a DL. The center and the QB touch the ball every single offensive snap. If something breaks down there, then the entire team is in trouble. In 2007, we had to replace Taylor. How did that go?

Bad examples

After Bomar came Brafford

After Vince Young came McCoy

Wow, I must have slept through an entire year because I don't recall Bradford taking one single snap the year Bomar was kicked off the team. If there were no signficance to replacing a QB, then why has Stoops only lost I believe twice at home while coaching at OU and one of those times was to TCU the year he kicked Bomar off the team. This is significant in my mind.

We've had great DL go through here before. We have replaced them the following year with little drop off. It's pretty hard to argue we never saw drop off when replacing a QB even though the QB that replaced them maybe turned out great later on in their career. I mean we replaced Tomich and C. Peters, but we continued to win NC. We struggled in 96' with a new QB losing nearly as many games in 96' as we did Frazier's entire career preceeding the 96' season.

Ok now I am completely confused. I thought you were trying to argue that Ganz is the MVP, and on that I agree with you. First of all I will admit I was slightly in error in my reply about the replacements, the Senior Paul Thompson played the year Bomar got kicked off, 2006. Brafford redshirted that year. However I don't get your point. OU won the Big XII that year as well as the next two years under a different QB, Brafford. This almost proves Newearth's position. If OU can still win the Big XII after replacing the starter with a QB who was a WR the year prior, then I may be inclined to believe that isn't too hard to replace a QB and win. McCoy followed Young and though they haven't won a NC, he did win 10 games that first year. McCoy was a Freshman, not a seasoned back up.

 

[junior4949]

Ok, let me start all over. OU had to replace White after the 04' season with the #1 ranked QB coming out of high school according to rivals. In 04' at the end of the regular season, OU was #2 in the BCS standings. In 05' after replacing their QB, they fell clear to #23. OU was a preseason top 5 team in 06' until Bomar was booted from the team and finished #12. Now to Texas. Texas won the NC in 05'. After replacing Young, they finished #19 in 06' and #19 in 07'. McCoy is a great player as well was Bomar, but there was signficant drop off in how the teams played when these two first replaced the QB's in front of them. In 06' Texas returned 3 All Americans on their DL, yet the team was considerably worse than the previous year. In 05', OU had the 4th best D against the run and overall #13 D yet had a disappointing 8-4 year ending up at #23. QB's are just hard to replace despite having stellar DL and D.