Vince Young better than Tommie Fraizer???

[junior4949]

The difference between 65% passes completed compared to 49% is quite signficant as well. Oh, and the difference between 10+ yard per attempt is quite significant over 7.9 as well. Btw, I knew Tommie Frazier. I went to college with the guy. My brothers roommate was on his intramural basketball team. I saw him play. You're the one spouting off about statistics don't matter, but then you pay absolutely zero attention to what Tebow is about to do. I realize everyone here is biased in a significant way, but if Florida wins the NC this year they will have done something NU has never done. They will have won 3 NC in 4 years even though people are saying how much parity there is now in college football yada yada yada. Urban Meyers could do something in his short career that took TO an entire carerr to accomplish. Say what you will about not being able to stack up to our run in the 90's, but I think almost everyone outside of Nebraska will disagree. How many college players have won the Heisman twice? How many have won it as a sophomore? Tebow could very well accomplish this feat. Is he a great QB? Yes at the collegiate level. I highly doubt he'll make much of a pro QB, but neither did Frazier. I saw Tommie Frazier lead a team that 3rd string QB walk on Matt Turman could have led to a NC. I guess everyone forgets the beatdown we put on CU when they rolled into Lincoln ranked #2 right behind us with Berringer under center. I guess everyone forgets the beatdown Matt Turman and the skers put on the Wildcats down in Manhattan even though they were ranked in the top 15. There's no doubt Frazier was a great college QB. However, I highly doubt any of the Florida teams from the past couple of years will rank in the top 5 all time like the 95's skers do. Frazier played with some outstanding players. Tebow has weapons around him, but he doesn't have near the arsenal Frazier did. We barely skipped a beat in 94' when Frazier went down to injury.

 

[husker B-rent]

I don't buy that "rhythm" argument about passing. A team that rarely passes (like Frazier's) has the advantage of often catching defenses stacked up against the run, not ready for a pass.

Certainly you can't compare total yards and TDs with Frazier's limited passing. You can compare QB ratings since those are all per pass stats.

Frazier actually doesn't compare that badly to Young: 126, 127, 116, 156 through his 4 years.

Young was 130, 128, 163 in his 3.

Tebow is 201, 172, 172. The 201 freshman year is a product of very limited number of passes, with 5 TDs in 33 attempts in mostly goal line situations skewing the numbers.

ok then i counter your stacking the box with quality of receiver. you can not tell me that during Fraziers career that we had a receiver nearly as good as percy harvin! in fact i would argue that we did not have as good of a pass catching WR as their #4 WR during Fraziers career. from watching tebow it seems quite obvious to me that he is not as good of a qb as his WRs are WRs. meaning that from what i have seen he is not very accurate and often throws the ball off target at which time his very athletic WRs have to run off of their route or compensate and make sensational grabs because of poorly thrown balls.

also, when a team stacks the box not only do they typically stop the run but they also tend to get more pressure on the qb, so that has to be taken into consideration when talking about stacking the box.

now to the problem, you guys are focusing on statistics and not on actual film or performance. statistically Tebow is a better passer and statistically Frazier is a better runner. but watch some film on each and you will see that you are heavily overrating tebows passing and underating Tommies!

 

[junior4949]

Sorry, I saw Tommie throw too many "darts" right into the ground nowhere near the receiver. Do you remember why he got pulled from the 94' NC game? It wasn't because of his running. It was because of his passing and handing Miami not only the ball but pretty darn good field position to boot. At least when Berringer threw his INT, it was into the endzone as we were about to score. I think you are way overrating Tommie's passing. It was sometimes downright ugly to watch.

 

[husker B-rent]

The difference between 65% passes completed compared to 49% is quite signficant as well. Oh, and the difference between 10+ yard per attempt is quite significant over 7.9 as well. Btw, I knew Tommie Frazier. I went to college with the guy. My brothers roommate was on his intramural basketball team. I saw him play. You're the one spouting off about statistics don't matter, but then you pay absolutely zero attention to what Tebow is about to do. I realize everyone here is biased in a significant way, but if Florida wins the NC this year they will have done something NU has never done. They will have won 3 NC in 4 years even though people are saying how much parity there is now in college football yada yada yada. Urban Meyers could do something in his short career that took TO an entire carerr to accomplish. Say what you will about not being able to stack up to our run in the 90's, but I think almost everyone outside of Nebraska will disagree. How many college players have won the Heisman twice? How many have won it as a sophomore? Tebow could very well accomplish this feat. Is he a great QB? Yes at the collegiate level. I highly doubt he'll make much of a pro QB, but neither did Frazier. I saw Tommie Frazier lead a team that 3rd string QB walk on Matt Turman could have led to a NC. I guess everyone forgets the beatdown we put on CU when they rolled into Lincoln ranked #2 right behind us with Berringer under center. I guess everyone forgets the beatdown Matt Turman and the skers put on the Wildcats down in Manhattan even though they were ranked in the top 15. There's no doubt Frazier was a great college QB. However, I highly doubt any of the Florida teams from the past couple of years will rank in the top 5 all time like the 95's skers do. Frazier played with some outstanding players. Tebow has weapons around him, but he doesn't have near the arsenal Frazier did. We barely skipped a beat in 94' when Frazier went down to injury.

ACCOMPLISH!

there you said it again. however, this time you admitted that it was Floridas accomplishment and not just Tebow. I think it is quite clear in fact that another QB could lead Florida to a MNC, oh wait thats right, chris leak already did....

im not disagreeing with what tebow is about to ACCOMPLISH.....possibly. if he wins a heisman and another MNC then yes he is one of the most ACCOMPLISHED collegiate qbs in history. but he is still not a better player.

http://cfn.scout.com/2/561911.html

take that into account, i would say from an outsiders point of view (ie. not a husker fan) Frazier is arguably the best qb of all time. TWO PEOPLE PUT HIM AS THE BEST ALL TIME AND THE OTHER TWO PUT HIM AT 2 AND 3 BEST ALL TIME!

have you seen tebow do this? i sure havent, especially not in a NC game!

" Tommie Frazier, Nebraska – Transcendent moment – 1996 Fiesta Bowl – breaking 85 University of Florida tackles for 75 yard touchdown run and the proverbial nail in Florida’s coffin"

another this one written in 2008. frazier is 2 behind leinart.

http://www.associatedcontent.com/article/1...pg2.html?cat=14

those are just the first 2 pages i say listed on my google search.

tebow could have been included in the second one as is was written in 2008 but instead he did not even make the top 5.

 

[Blackshirt316]

I realize everyone here is biased in a significant way, but if Florida wins the NC this year they will have done something NU has never done. They will have won 3 NC in 4 years even though people are saying how much parity there is now in college football yada yada yada.

Dude do you know how to count? 1994- National Champions, 1995 - National Champions, 1997 - National Champions... pretty sure that is 3 titles in four years. Nebraska also played for one in 1993 and were an upset by Texas in the 1996 B12 Championship away from playing in five straight. Are you not a Husker fan at all or are you just like 9 years old?

 

[AR Husker Fan]

I realize everyone here is biased in a significant way, but if Florida wins the NC this year they will have done something NU has never done. They will have won 3 NC in 4 years even though people are saying how much parity there is now in college football yada yada yada.

Dude do you know how to count? 1994- National Champions, 1995 - National Champions, 1997 - National Champions... pretty sure that is 3 titles in four years. Nebraska also played for one in 1993 and were an upset by Texas in the 1996 B12 Championship away from playing in five straight. Are you not a Husker fan at all or are you just like 9 years old?

No personal attacks, please. If you must, take it to Woodshed. If you don't like his posts, use the Ignore function. Otherwise, attack the post, not the poster.

 

[HUSKER 37]

...

http://cfn.scout.com/2/561911.html

take that into account, i would say from an outsiders point of view (ie. not a husker fan) Frazier is arguably the best qb of all time. TWO PEOPLE PUT HIM AS THE BEST ALL TIME AND THE OTHER TWO PUT HIM AT 2 AND 3 BEST ALL TIME!

...

Matthew Zemek Q: The ten greatest quarterbacks of all-time are ...

A: Quarterback is one of those positions where great statistics and talent don't always translate into great win-loss records. (John Elway would be an example.)

With that in mind, choosing the greatest college QBs of all time demands two lists: a list for the great performers, and a list for the winners. These areas could certainly overlap, but the point is that more names demand recognition for this one position, given the uniqueness of college football quarterbacking, as opposed to the NFL, where winning comes almost exclusively through raw performance. In college, greatness is just as much an ability to win as it is an ability to perform at another level.

Performers:

Elway, Jim Plunkett, Sammy Baugh, Charlie Ward, Archie Manning, Tommie Frazier, Danny Wuerffel, Matt Leinart, Vince Young, Steve Young.

Winners:

Jay Barker (the quintessential "winner" as a college football quarterback), James Street, JC Watts, Tom Clements, Joe Montana, Turner Gill, Roger Staubach, Bernie Kosar, Craig Krenzel, Ken Dorsey.

Best college QB ever?

Frazier. The best pure mix of blood-and-guts poise under fire and sheer athletic beauty. The leader of the great Nebraska teams of the mid-90s (with the '95 edition being the best of all time) had equal portions of toughness and excellence, enabling an observer to view Frazier as a physical specimen who also gave it the old college try. The fact that he destroyed Wuerffel--another player you could identify as both a performer and winner of the highest order--in a head-to-head matchup

Funny!

This guy can say such purty things about Frazier, but somehow make the statement that Frazier destroyed Wunnerful..They were never on the playing field at the same time other than change of possession or to shake hands..maybe the coin flip.

So..I guess..Without the dominant Defense, Frazier wouldn't even be considered..

 

[Enhance]

Funny!

This guy can say such purty things about Frazier, but somehow make the statement that Frazier destroyed Wunnerful..They were never on the playing field at the same time other than change of possession or to shake hands..maybe the coin flip.

So..I guess..Without the dominant Defense, Frazier wouldn't even be considered..

I think he is merely saying that in terms of how they played that day, Frazier destroyed Wuerrful, which he did. Frazier ended up making everybody think he should have been the Heisman winner after that game.

 

[junior4949]

I realize everyone here is biased in a significant way, but if Florida wins the NC this year they will have done something NU has never done. They will have won 3 NC in 4 years even though people are saying how much parity there is now in college football yada yada yada.

Dude do you know how to count? 1994- National Champions, 1995 - National Champions, 1997 - National Champions... pretty sure that is 3 titles in four years. Nebraska also played for one in 1993 and were an upset by Texas in the 1996 B12 Championship away from playing in five straight. Are you not a Husker fan at all or are you just like 9 years old?

My bad on the counting, but then again Frazier wasn't on the 97' NC team was he? Again, it could also be pointed out 2 1/2 NC in 4 years as the 97' was a split NC. Florida's have been outright. They are doing it in an era when almost everyone says it can't be done due to parity.

 

[Enhance]

I realize everyone here is biased in a significant way, but if Florida wins the NC this year they will have done something NU has never done. They will have won 3 NC in 4 years even though people are saying how much parity there is now in college football yada yada yada.

Dude do you know how to count? 1994- National Champions, 1995 - National Champions, 1997 - National Champions... pretty sure that is 3 titles in four years. Nebraska also played for one in 1993 and were an upset by Texas in the 1996 B12 Championship away from playing in five straight. Are you not a Husker fan at all or are you just like 9 years old?

Simmer down young grasshopper :wasted

 

[HskrMan]

Frazier is the best. Hands down. VY was a very good college qb but lets not forget that UT has its choice of any texas athlete they want so I sure wouldn't call them "slighlty above average". And don't even get me started on Tebow... He wouldn't have near as many TDs if he wasn't ******* off the coach!

 

[HskrMan]

Frazier is the best. Hands down. VY was a very good college qb but lets not forget that UT has its choice of any texas athlete they want so I sure wouldn't call them "slighlty above average". And don't even get me started on Tebow... He wouldn't have near as many TDs if he wasn't ******* off the coach!

 

[newenglandhusker]

I realize everyone here is biased in a significant way, but if Florida wins the NC this year they will have done something NU has never done. They will have won 3 NC in 4 years even though people are saying how much parity there is now in college football yada yada yada.

Dude do you know how to count? 1994- National Champions, 1995 - National Champions, 1997 - National Champions... pretty sure that is 3 titles in four years. Nebraska also played for one in 1993 and were an upset by Texas in the 1996 B12 Championship away from playing in five straight. Are you not a Husker fan at all or are you just like 9 years old?

My bad on the counting, but then again Frazier wasn't on the 97' NC team was he? Again, it could also be pointed out 2 1/2 NC in 4 years as the 97' was a split NC. Florida's have been outright. They are doing it in an era when almost everyone says it can't be done due to parity.

I'm glad someone else pointed out the 3 MNCs in 4 years thing. With regard to parity...that's one of the most overplayed themes of the modern era. Scholarship limitations have changed the game but if you look at Top 25 lists from this decade and from decades prior you will see there are still dominant programs and some cinderellas thrown in the mix.

There have been some really good points made in this thread. It's certainly an interesting question. Matthew Zemek had a really good way at looking at the question, IMO. The fact that Frazier took over games like he did and made phenomenal plays at opportune times while still only being a part of what was done should be taken into account. The 1994 Orange Bowl seals it for me. All that guy did was dominate the opposition. As an inexperienced player he went into that game confident and against "The Wonder" that was Charlie Ward, who was touted as being a much better, mobile QB, and outperformed him. Frazier played better but Nebraska was on the losing end. How many other players (let alone QBs) won 3 straight MNC title game MVPs?