LouieInNv

So what makes a "P5" aside from conference affiliations and geography? Wake Forest, Duke, Indiana, Purdue, Iowa State, Syracuse, Pitt, Utah, Washington State, Orgon State, NC State...all supposedly P5's. Why? Well most simple because of long ago history and geography. Most have stadiums that would have to stretch by 30 to 90% to equal BYU's LES. 65,000 seems small in Lincoln, but in states of similar size, Nebraska has corn and, well, Nebraska. Utah has three FBS programs. Before LES was expanded in 1982, the Cougars averaged 45,000 fans a game for over a decade before. The first time Utah's RES even reached a 45k capacity was when Utah Taxpayers forked over $80 million in 1998 be for the 2002 Winter Olympics. The never sold it out an entire season until 2008. Duke, Wake Forest, both P5, both small time. There is this tendency to rely on this definition of big time based on conference affiliation. Well of the major FBS programs only 19 have ever won National titles. BYU is one of them. 18 are P5. 47 P5's have not. Is Big Time defined by profitibility? BYU has operated in the black for decades Other Athletic Department high points. Attendence, basketball arena of 20k, top ranked men and women's Olympic programs. Is BYU Ohio State? No, but with 18 national top 25 finishes in the last 37 seasons, the Cougars are in top 15 program territory. My Pont is, the deleniation of P5 vs Non P5 is based on discrimination and possibly religious bigotry, not finances or program success. If BYU is not a major program, neither are probably half of those called P5. BYU is not alone. There are probably another 8-12 MAJOR programs among G5's that are better than half of your precious P5 in crowd. Cincinnati, Houston, East Carolina, CSU, Boise State, UCF, SDSU and maybe Utah State, South Florida and the service academies for sure. All are better than many P5's. That's the point! Using P5 as a title that supposedly sets any such program in a superior position than all other FBS programs is just nonsense.

That really is. Thanks.

I hate posting from mobile devices. Typos! Again, sorry. I miss keyboards.

I quite disagree on your assessments of talent levels.... I went over BYU's 22 deep. Please understand. If you think BYU's players are at or below average then you have been fooling yourselves. That program is defiantly about average in the running back spots after loosing a 3000 yard back to red shirt, but the O Line is healthy, large and physically impressive. They did not dominate Texas' #3, #5, #15 #10 and #21 recruiting classes because they can't play. RECEIVER GROUP All run 4.5 or better. FYI 40 x's are often misunderstood. Little 4.3 guys in pads are usually slower than big 4.5 guys in pads. Long legged guys take fewer strides to cover more ground. BYU' main outside X and Z group go 200-215 lbs and stand 6-6-1/2, 6'-5-1/2, 6'5, 6'4, 6'3, 6'2 and 6'-1. The hybrid H/Y receivers go from small 5'9 4.4 guys to true Y slots who are 6'5 and 6'4 respectively. The 3rd string Y is 6'1 and a 4.39 guy. BYU has the tallest and one of thd fastest receiver groups in the country. You are kidding yourself if you think these are really just 2 star kids. I spent some time braking them down on film. Fast, tall, great hands. They are at receiver group 3 deep in 4 positions what USC wishes it was. Linebackers... They were young, did not play well as a unit last year. Too much free lancing, not enough duscipline. But talent was not an issue. The add several newbies this year including a walk on that turned down full rides at Purdue, Houston, aTm and most Texas programs. He has already made the 2 dep as a freshman, runs a 4.5 40, is 6'4-1/2, 227 and tackles like a freight train. He will play behind a 4.55 guy. The first 4 MLB'S are 4.6 or faster, 6'1, 6'-3, 240-245 types, much more disciplined this year. The other to OLB on the Weak side are 6'4-225, Kyle Van Noy type and 6'4-246 (both NFL 4.5 40 types). These guys would play in the B1G, PAC or SEC. I am not going through every position group. We know Nebraska has quality players in most positions as well. I just think a lot of Nebraska fans are making the mistake if thinking BYU is a little better than Wyoming or Northern Illinois. That is not the case. They are smart as well. Their SINE is nasty. Two of last year's starters are 2nd string this year they have developed so much more depth. 5 of their first seven defensive lineman are Polynesians...hard nosed dudes. Again, I predict Nebraska wins. Been saying that all along. But the opponent here is better than most of the rest o DC the teams on Nebraska's schedule, especially on offense. Lincoln is a big benefit. But BYU has won some big games on the road as well. Just say'n. I've spent 33 season as a FB writer. They are a big time program, not Iowa State or Southern Miss. The star ranking are poof and made for fan fodder and advertising sales. It's not that meaningful in terms of why teams really win. But skating that mythological dragon is impossible. Fans will believe the absolute crap fans want to believe.

AGAIN! Sorry about the typos...very hard to use these mobile device keyboards.

1) There is a misconception about recruiting and star rating systems. Recruiting ratings are powerful sales tools, but wholly manufactured. Not one 5* recruit played in the most recent Superbike and neither of the 3 x 4*'s started. The Scout and Rivals sites are for fan fodder, but coaching staffs, especially in the SEC and B1G make far more of it than is real. They structure 6 and even 7 figure bonuses based on it. 2. To understand the sham that is the recruiting gig, you need to know how and why it evolved, and how it works today. It is important to know that at the 4-5 star level for 17 year olds, it's a little meaningful. More often than not, it just means an athlete reached puberty early, has a higher than normal testosterone count, or as often is the case, a kid that was held back a year in grade school (short bus academically). Parents also lie about there kids ages. The fact is a lot of it is just maturing processes and often genetics. Coaches rarely pay that much attention to the * count. What the want is a kid that fits ten and their system. 3. Who gets a star matters. You don't get any at first unless as a player you attend an expensive camp (Hudl, UnderArmor, Sparq, etc.) 70% of college athletes either do not have the tuition, or the drug pimp to pay the tuition and that's reality. You attend, you pay, you get a minimum of three stars. More than 3000 Scholes are issued each year, 2400 to kids that never attended a premere camp or got scouted other than by the coaches recruiting them. 4. None of you know how those services make money. But some P5 coaches get bonuses for rankings so you play up those stars. If you are LES Miles, Urban Meyer or Nick Sabin and chasing a kid, he's automatically a 4 star minimum even if he didn't attend a camp. The same kid chosen BYU, Iowa, Nebraska or KSTATE gets no more than three. It makes the process really tainted and skewed. 5. How good are recruiting classes for real? Who defeats who with considerable regularity. But that also assumes recruiting is everything and coaching is nothing. 6. Fans put an enormous emotional tie to "recruiting" but guys like Sabin, Miles, Meyer...they win because they and their staff can flat out coach most others. They prepare their teams better than others. Yes the have slightly better athletes but in reality, the delta between Alabama and other major P5's is athletically small. Great programs coach up players. Now someone said something again about BYU as a Mid Major. That person obviously doesn't know much about the game, I suspect because that person is very young, maybe less than 30 years of age. BYU is not Western Illinois and if you keep insulting them, it will just go up on their board. Oregon did that just a few years ago and lost to BYU 38-8. Texas fans told each other BYU was not in their class and lost two straight 40-21 in Provo, and 41-7 in Austin. BYU'S only loss to Texas in 5 games came in a come-from-behind drive late in the 4th quarter in Austin (16-17 loss for BYU). In BYU'S first trip to Austin it won 22-17 and in the only other game the Longhorns ever played in Provo it lost 47-6. I realize Nebraska has a long and storied history against Texas, but does it own an 80% W/L record with 60% blowout wins, one sober knocker victory in Austin and a last minute 1 point loss? NO! MY PREDICTION is that Nebraska will win by 3 because the game is in Lincoln. If this game were at a truly neutral site or in Provo I would favor BYU by 6. I thought BYU would maybe defeat Texas last year in Austin. Everyone knows how that went. I think Nebraska will be more difficult to beat in Lincoln. But don't be shocked if the program you foolishly call a mid major comes into Lincoln and pushes back everything Nebraska is used to did hung out. By the way, I just checked and the running backs they do have averaged close to 6 yards a carry last year. Every team would miss a 3000 yard career senior RB. But BYU has talent there along wigh a deep veteran O-Line. Don't be thinking they can't run.

Sorry about the typos...very hard to use these mobile device keyboards.

You sound a lot more like a BYU fan than a 33 year sports writer. In an 18 page topic,of which I freely admit I have not read all of it, I have seen very little if anyone saying that BYU is not worthy of being a power 5 team. The one exception would be some Aggie/Ute fan that is trolling along. Very few here are taking BYU lightly. Some people are almost wetting their pants that Taysum Hill is going to run for 250 and 3 touchdowns and throw for 250 and 2. BYU is a very solid football team. I personally, which I have said many times, have my doubts that Hill is 100% and will look like he is at mid season form. Even with that being said, I think it will be a good game, but I see NU winning by 10 or so. I am retired. But I am also very familiar with programs west of the divide and in the interest of disclosure, did go to BYU. My comments are no less valid and you may read as you wish whatever you like. Over the years I discovered you can write the most glowing things about Program A and Program A fans will think you Homer for program B, etc. Someone mentioned Iowa and ISU. I could have read the same things on Utah, BYU and USU, OU Arizona and ASU message boards. It has always intrigued me that you can write honestly about a situation and if the truth brings discomfort, it's shoot the messanger. I have always had a soft spot in my inner fan for certain programs and leaders. Dr. Tom Osborn is one of them. Therefor NU is one of them. I couldn't stand Berry Switzer so it's always been tougher for me to appreciate the Sooner even though Bob Stoops is actually a really good guy. Mack Briwn, good, therefor ok w/Texas. People, strategies, traditions, styles, after 33 years one realizes thate such details are what the game is about. I get your impression regarding my comments. I in no way want to offend. I am just reminding people that BYU is not McMeese State or Kansas. NU is opening against a program that is 6-2 all time since the late 80's vs. aTm, Oklahoma and Texas. They will go to Lincoln expecting to won, not hoping for it. Nebraska will be defending their beautiful red stadium expecting to win. BYU is usually a pretty good road team. It will be ready and healthy. Same with Nebraska. Parent ABC is televising that game in prime time for a reason. It expects an exciting and possibly high scoring affair. So my earlier comments were, respect the opponent. It's people respect Nebraska and look at the game just that way. You should visit their webside, do a roster walk x position group. Those are not mid-major athletes. And yes, several of fellow posters went down that road. Black shirts are back. Riley is a marvelous coach. Give him time to get his system in place. With Nebraska's athletes, he's no 9-4 guy permanently. He's a tremendous game coach and stratigist as well. You'll like him. Honestly, I do think BYU is a really tough 1st out for NU. Pressure is all on Nebraska. BYU is on average 1.1 years older than the average team (missions). Again, not Wyoming!

You sound a lot more like a BYU fan than a 33 year sports writer. In an 18 page topic,of which I freely admit I have not read all of it, I have seen very little if anyone saying that BYU is not worthy of being a power 5 team. The one exception would be some Aggie/Ute fan that is trolling along. Very few here are taking BYU lightly. Some people are almost wetting their pants that Taysum Hill is going to run for 250 and 3 touchdowns and throw for 250 and 2. BYU is a very solid football team. I personally, which I have said many times, have my doubts that Hill is 100% and will look like he is at mid season form. Even with that being said, I think it will be a good game, but I see NU winning by 10 or so.

I've read some interesting posts here. A lot of it is true. A lot of it is wishful myth. 1. Someone called BYU a mid major. As a 33 year veteran sportswriter, reading that was a laugh. Hard to call a 65,000 seat stadium, 21,000 seat Basketball venue etc. small time. BYU might be average in the B1G, but would be #3 in the B12... BYU isn't 75k and 40 years of sellouts, but it isn't johnny-come-lately KState either. While not Nebraska, BYU is much bigger than I suppose other mid-majors with much smaller venues...Oregon, ISU, Oregon State, Utah, Washington State, Stanford, CAL, Arizona, West Virginia, OkState, Texas Tech, Kansas and K State, Ol' Miss, Upchucky, Duke Wake Forest...lots more. I suspect that since the P5 program managers as AD's and coaches consider BYU a P5, perhaps the fans should have a little more respect for a program that might just bite them in the a... BYU is better than Miami. 2. I was shocked to read that BYU'S roster was so easily disrespected. There aren't ten programs in the country that wouldn't outright trade their WR group for BYUs. Someone asked how tall BYU'S secondary is. Their 2 deep shows everyone 6' or taller except one FCB and one safety that hits like a Mack Truck. His backup is 6'6" tall. They have foot speed. We dob't know if they have decision speed yet, but they have talent. 3) Riley has to utilize both the run and pass. That will be key to winning. Nebraska is very thin at receiver positions right now. BYU has in the last ten years been very good stopping the run. I like the Cornhusker line in this situation. BYU also 5alks openly about a bend but don't break approach to defense, which I think is a huge error. That defense is going to tire if they don't go press and balls to the wall w/a hard rush in 3rd and long situations. That is BYU'S only real weakness. 4) They are big, powerful and strong. The practice at nearly a mile above sea level so like CU, they have wind and stamina in the 4th quarter when down at 1000 ft. They are much faster than people think. They CAN run! 5) Nebraska must shorten the game, run run run effectively. If I th can't, then it has to pass effectively and keep up with BYU. They will move the ball and will score. First team to 24 probably wins.