Cactusboy

Ummm..... nope. Pretty much an established fact. oh so google search results in entries that support a claim. You win..you win. LOL Well.... yes. How would you support your contention that Hamas breaking truces is "just an assumption?" provide the actual links to the articles that show it............

What's funny is that the first result in that google search is of Israel breaking a truce. http://www.guardian....thepalestinians

Ummm..... nope. Pretty much an established fact. oh so google search results of entries that support a claim. You win..you win. LOL

well he went on to explain what he meant and it was you guys that wouldn't accept it. you guys really owe him an apolgy. You gotta be kidding me. LOL well didn't he try over and over to explain what he meant, the same thing I just explained, right after the outraged started and everyone just looked past it?

You're oversimplying/white washing it and that is dangerous as it allows it to continue to happen. People just throw up their hands and say "it will never end...they both are to blame" They see it as hopeless and give up or jsut don't care. It's important to dig into this and see exactly what the facts are and hold people accountable where needed. It's far too important of an issue to be a defeatist on. as far as saying Hamas routinely breaks truces seems to be just an assumption of yours. It's a fair assumption because that's how our media makes it out to be, but it's not true. I'm sure as the thread contues examples of who breaks truces will be brought up. FTR - just saw on the news that 74% of Americans are opposed to Israel attacking Iran to stop their nuke program.

Don't know how alone I am on this, but all this crap just seems that it'll come back and bite us in the ass later on.... It was one of the 3 stated reasons for 9/11.

well he went on to explain what he meant and it was you guys that wouldn't accept it. you guys really owe him an appolgy.

Really... I give the f#*k up. I, along with many other people, do not see how I am misinterpreting what you're saying here. Maybe you just need a reset? Rephrase? I don't get it. You are ignoring that he said "IF I WAS A BETTING MAN". that means he doesn't know they did something to deserve it, but he thinks chances are better that they did than didn't. BW has behaved very poorly in it's past, so that's why he'd bet against them. So he is between 51-99% sure they deserved it. Many here are assuming he meant 99% or close to it...that's not a fair assumption. If you want him to clarify, then simply ask for it. People are simply putting words in his mouth. Go by what he actuallly said and what it technically means and not what you want it to mean. There is nothing more to this...it's THIS simple.

its amusing the same cast of characters abstaining from voting... We used to protect South Africa w/ vetos too..w/ the same type of lopsides voting results.

Can you give an example of Hamas breaking a cease fire? Hamas obeyed the last cease fire and wanted to renew. If Israel refuses they are rejectionists of peace. No crystal balls or magic 8 ball predictions allowed. as soon at Israel got their state in 1948 they marched out to drive our and massacre the people living in the land. Who by the way were to be allowed to stay and live there. That's when tens if not hundredes of thousands fled and when neighboring arab armies arrived to fight. AGAIN..it hinges on the land. Yes they both wanted it...but Israel was GIVEN their split. They had to TAKE land from the people there to do this. For Israel to demand/want more is over the top and for them to STILL not simply accept what was given to them shows where the vast majority of the blame goes.

Virtually all indefensible U.S. Vetoes of UN Resolutions Critical of Israel (1972-2011) http://www.jewishvir...N/usvetoes.html

And the U.N. keeps passing resolutions (ballpark about 2 per year) dealing with Israel, not really accomplishing anything... the last from the UN 1991 December 16: UN General Assembly Resolution 4686: annulled Res. 3379 the last 2 from the security councel Resolution 1701 (11 August 2006) called for the full cessation of hostilities between Israel and Hezbollah. Resolution 1860 (9 January 2009) called for the full cessation of war between Israel and Hamas. From same link http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_United_Nations_resolutions_concerning_Israel Saddam not following resolutions was a big reason why we invaded Iraq. Israel has been doing the same thing for decades and we do nothing. The reason the resolutions don't do anything is because the US wants it that way.

Stopping our support of their illegal actions doesn't mean we'd let others attack them. We can still see to it they are safe w/out activly supporting their actions. That said, If you and your friends have a buddy that keeps provoking fights in bars and does so because he knows you guys have his back he'll keep provoking fights. If you tell him you're not going to have his back then he'll either have to stop or face the consequences of starting fights. That's not even a fair analogy....you'd also have to had been supplying him w/ steroids and such as to where he could probably kick the crap out of anyone he provokes fighst w/. But you could stop giving him the roids and free gym membership if he didn't start behaving. But bottom line is no one would allow any attack on Israel...it's just silly to suggest the world would let that happen. Besides they have nukes.

and again, the elephant in the room is the illegal occupation. To blame the Palestinians for how they resist it is sort of like holding a guy down in the mud by a boot on his neck and then complain that he's pulling your leg hairs.

Yes Israel with the help of the US is the aggressor. I'm not saying groups like Hamas haven't done terrorism though. There is plenty of blame to go around. On all sides. The Palestinians shouldn't use terrorism in their resistence to the occupation, so yes there is blame to go there. But let's look at one of the recent signifanct conflicts there..and invation of Gaza which the Goldstone Report was on...were Israel was guilty of war crimes something like 4-1. AND why did that invasion ever happen? Israel refused to renew the cease fire w/ Hamas...who was willing to do another 10 year truce. However Israel would have had to stop settlement development. Israel choose land over peace as they routinely have done.

Yes Israel with the help of the US is the aggressor. I'm not saying groups like Hamas haven't done terrorism though.

WOOOOAH.... married to Obama's terrorist buddy!! Personal life He is married to the former Billie Ayers; they have four children. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phil_Gingrey#Personal_life

2 game suspension.

Current? IDK...I'm not up to speed on all of them. I'd guess top 3 if not #1. I'd look at the totality of them. Do you have any nominees?

Discuss

it's nothing close to 50/50. That's what Israel wants us to believe..that way we just throw our hands up and do nothing to stop it. I didn't mean to imply that it was 50/50. Fair enough...but this is a subject that needs tons of sunlight...and it's great to see it's been a very civil discussion and even productive. No need to end it.

it's nothing close to 50/50. That's what Israel wants us to believe..that way we just throw our hands up and do nothing to stop it.

there is a reason...they want their land. They have wanted it from day one and their leaders were very adamant that they would one day have it all. Arabs were the large majority before zionism...but Jews lived there too...and they got along fine. It wasn't until zionism..when thousands of Jews started pouring in that there we clashes.

I do not put much credence in that explanation. You are not legitimately defending yourself when you are occupying another people's land, preventing them from forming their own nation, occassionaly invading them, frequently embarking on military missions on their land, blockading them into an open-air concentration camp, and imprisoning thousands of their civilians without charge. Exactly...the Arabs are resisting and illegal and brutal occupation. ANY group in the world past or present would resist it.

Israel sould be allowed to exist peacefully within its pre-1967 borders, and be defended in doing so by the US/UN/NATO/GCC. However its continued occupation of land beyond that and frequent attacks upon the Gaza Strip, the West Bank, Lebanon and Syria should be economically and militarily opposed by US/UN/NATO/GCC. Israel's explanation for all of that is that they are responding, self-defense, etc. I see their point, but I agree with you that they go too far at times. and that is 99% BS. Remember this big time...Israel lies. Choose ANY attack of theirs that was self defense and we can look at it in some detail and see if it really was SD. 2 big lies from the top of my head... Israel says Hamas uses human shields...when in fact it's Israel that was found to have used them. The Lavon Affair refers to a failed Israeli covert operation, code named Operation Susannah, conducted in Egypt in the Summer of 1954. As part of the false flag operation,[1] a group of Egyptian Jews were recruited by Israeli military intelligence for plans to plant bombs inside Egyptian, American and British-owned targets. The attacks were to be blamed on the Muslim Brotherhood, Egyptian Communists, "unspecified malcontents" or "local nationalists" with the aim of creating a climate of sufficient violence and instability to induce the British government to retain its occupying troops in Egypt's Suez Canal zone.[2] The operation caused no casualties, except for those members of the cell who committed suicide after being captured. The operation became known as the Lavon Affair after the Israeli defense minister Pinhas Lavon, who was forced to resign because of the incident, or euphemistically as the Unfortunate Affair or The Bad Business (Hebrew: העסק ביש‎, HaEsek Bish or העסק הביש, HaEsek HaBish). After being denied for 51 years, the surviving agents were in 2005 officially honored with a certificate of appreciation by the Israeli President Moshe Katzav.[3] http://en.wikipedia....ki/Lavon_Affair remember when I said if you do just the minimal research you'll start having many "WTF" moments? I wonder why this HUGE event is never mentioned in the media...