Redux

I quit contributing to this conversation when you brought anger and name calling into the fold. Good day

Triggered ^ I gave plenty of examples of money and dirty dealings. You either dismissed them or got offended by them. That's a you problem and nothing else I post on the matter will have any bearing on the discussion. I assume you either work for Big Pharma or know someone who does? There's a difference between companies turning a profit and organizations monopolizing and price gouging.

Lol yeah, SUPER socialist of me to think price gouging is evil.

Lol he is the fall guy so they can say "see we handle corruption" then go back to making trillions off of sick people .

Seat belts can also prevent people from escaping a car after a crash. Why are we still using this comparison?

It is how thing's work. And it's wrong. Nothing is free, someone always gets paid. Hospitals markup kleenex, bad example. Doctors are individuals, gotta find a good one. He's a great example actually and that's why I used it. Denying it is foolish.

Vaccines are supposed to protect the person first actually. Seat belts protect others secondly.

You call it bulls#!t, and then concede that it's a fact. I accept your concession. All death rates are horrific. Seatbelts don't go inside my body. I don't get fired if I get a seatbelt ticket. DUI laws don't go inside my body.

Google: Who paid the largest criminal fine in history, and why? Why is lobbying more important than making life saving drugs and medicine affordable? $4,450,373,773 over 20 years to be exact. The FDA is fudned by companies it regulates. How does that make any sense, kinda like the NCAA regulating sports it makes money off of. As of May, Big Pharma has made $22 Billion off of Covid19 relief There's this guy: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Martin_Shkreli To be continued, maybe a thread move is needed

Yeah....and that's why insulin and chemotherapy are so affordable Ironically a lot of that money goes into the pockets of government elected officials spouses. Weird

Unvaccinated people are supposedly 11 times more likely to die from Covid. Mind you, even the unvaccinated still have like a 98% survival rate. So objectively speaking, the unvaccinated are a greater risk to themselves than they are to others. The Delta variant spreads twice as easily and CAN be twice as severe. Mind you, that's not a guarantee by any means and is mostly a precautionary tale when talking Covid in general. Here, this is directly from the CDC link I posted where I "owned" myself. The problem with this data is there are no nunbers here, just advisories. Just like last year. I interpret this differently than others I guess, shocker I know. Like this line: "However, like prior variants, the amount of viral genetic material may go down faster in fully vaccinated people when compared to unvaccinated people." That says may. Interpret it how you like, but again these are assumptions. And I'm not sitting here pretending like vaccines don't work, and there are microchips or whatever other nonsense misinformation is out there. I'm saying that most of this is still assumption based. Bottom line, fully vaxxed and unvaxxed can get covid. Both can spread covid. Both CAN die from covid. And arguing otherwise isn't logical. The logical thing to do, is IF you are worried about getting it, continue doing what is guaranteed to work: stay the eff away from people. You've got to understand why people are so hesitant to get these vaccines. Like it or not, this thing was rushed. Argue all you want, but compared to other vaccines, this was record time. Maybe that's breakthrough science, or maybe it's big pharma doing what big pharma does best by capitalizing on others misfortune. And when the government and big pharma team up, it's terrifying. Here's another link where the risks conflate eachother, this from late July I believe: https://www.msn.com/en-in/health/medical/vaccinated-people-might-spread-covid-19-at-the-same-rate-as-unvaccinated-says-leaked-us-data/ar-AAMKrOf Again, this another assumption based outlook. I'm just tired of living in fear of something that is objectively very survivable for most people. The flu could kill me, so could a car crash, so could a terrorist attack. Living in constant fear and blindly giving up freedoms is what is turning the skeptics away. I'll tell you now, if the government wasn't pushing as hard for vaccinations, more people would be vaccinated. If you actually give people a choice without fear of job loss or mandating it and threatening fines, more people would seek it out. A lot of people in this country still do hold the idea of individual freedoms VERY important, nobody wants to be made to feel like it's being stripped away.

I do not think that and didn't say that. This is my issue with the dog pile debates, it gets convoluted and things get misinterpreted. I honestly wasn't trying to do that and was quite busy earlier when this all was exchanged.

I'm not going to continue arguing over semantics. My initial point, which is verifiable, is that it can be spread vaxxed or not. I will look over the difference though because that actually interests me. It's a far greater risk to the individual than it is anyone else if they so choose to remain unvaccinated. This is not false. And if everyone is spreading it, vaxxed or not and regardless of severity, it remains more of an individual danger. But certainly, show me the data that says otherwise, I'll look.

Here And I never said it was at the same rate

I apologize, I was reading multiple posts. Scarlet made the claim, not you. (Although at a glance you share strikingly similar avatars) And further rebuttal, I never insinuated the spread rate was the same (not intentionally anyway) and I missed where Scarlet added that particular caveat. Yes thus far the vaccine does seemingly result in less spreading than unvaccinated. But it doesn't eliminate the spread or give immunity like some think (not pointing fingers). Sincerely not trying to put words in mouths here.

You said vaccinated people can't spread the virus, you said that was false. One simple click determined your statement as false. Now you want to pretend some more.

No, it's not. https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/variants/delta-variant.html#:~:text=• Fully vaccinated people with,the virus to others. Now do the statistics for vaccine related complications

And only a small percentage of people would have adverse side effects from taking said vaccine to begin with, but screw them right! Mandate for all! (Except White House staff, Congress, Judges, Phizer employees, Moderna employees, J&J employees, migrant immigrants and illegal aliens)

You clearly don't understand what choice means

Who said I wasn't vaccinated? You're the one crying and wishing death upon people because of your beliefs. Kinda terroristic.

Govern me harder Daddy

Well, good luck with being horrible

How very bigoted of you

Yes, my Android has gotten very bad at assuming the words I'm typing in. Upgrade needed soon. The absolutely should not be exempt, and it's precisely WHY people are pushing back so hard. It sets a piss poor example. Double that if it truly isn't mandatory for the freaking people making the vaccine.

They are choosing not to and being forced to quit/be fired. Not a choice. How is it putting others at risk exactly? It's putting themselves at risk, sure. Not others, that's a fallacy. The fully vaccinated and unvaccinated both spread the virus, so no it's not putting others at risk. No employers should be put in that position or be at risk of being fined. It's a complete infringement on freedom. And that should be your choice free of pressure from the government. If it's hurting the economy, so is forcing people out of jobs that refuse the vax.