AllNRed

Well, the original argument was that Green/Lee in 2010 provided quality depth at the QB position. Someone said no they weren't but suggested that Armstrong/Kellogg is quality depth. I asked how is a QB who's 4/11 for 22 yards, 3 yards rushing on 2 attempts, 1TD/1Int/1Fumble, accompanied with a freshman QB who hasn't played a game quality depth but two QBs whom have at least 2 games of starting experience not. Then all of this came about...... I see. Well I will throw my 2 cents in. In 2010, in the opportunities they had, Lee and Green proved to provide depth. Quality depth is a stretch based on their performances. RK3 and Armstrong provide depth. Without them showing anything last year for obvious reasons it would also be a stretch to say it is Quality. Looking back, the last time we had Quality backups was Keller and Ganz. I think someone mentioned it earlier. But even then, we didn't really know what we had in Ganz because he hadn't seen much of the field until Keller was hurt. I probably didn't add much to this thread but hey-what the hell. I agree. I guess quality is the wrong term to use. Serviceable is probably closer to reality. In 2010, we knew that if Martinez couldn't come back after injury, there were two QBs that could step in and at least manage to offense. Green was able to perform when a week was spent putting together a game scheme that fit him rather than forcing him to play like Martinez or Lee. Lee showed that he can at least protect the ball on offense and keep from allowing the team to lose the game despite what the defense was doing. IMO, that's more depth at QB than 90% of programs see year to year. As far as Armstrong, I surely hope he is the real deal and show cases that at some point this season. I don't want to see another Ganz to Lee transition where we lost a good QB only to see a guy whom we though would be better turnout to be no better than 3rd on the depth chart

I wonder if the SEC intentionally gives their better teams an easier sked. The last couple years and this year Alabama has faced Tennessee (crossover) and Vandy, Missouri and Kentucky as the wild card rotating team. This year Bama plays two ranked teams (LSU and A&M) and has bye weeks before each of them. Like last year, they can lose one of the ranked games and still back into the BCS title b/c they have the SEC Meat Grinder schedule that the media plays up. Don't they make the schedule a few seasons in advance. I don't think you can necessarily predict which SEC team is going to be in the basement except those who normally dwell down there. I know I didn't expect aTm have the early success they did. I don't think they even have their 2014 schedule out yet (quick search). Only big set games (Gators v. Dawgs in Jacksonville). Oh, okay. Thanks. For some reason I always thought conference schedules were complete like 3-5 years out.

I agree to an extent. I think Wisconsin will provide somewhat of a spark to the excitement, but yea. If the playoff system is going off strength of schedule amongst the top teams then............... As KCHuskerChris pointed out, it isn't likely we would get in with one loss. If we have a chance, this schedule is our best chance. Right. I can't think of too many teams in history that took a national championship trophy home during the season they had a schedule full of top 10 teams anyway. I won't complain. I just would like to see NU match up against a top program one in a while during the season.

I wonder if the SEC intentionally gives their better teams an easier sked. The last couple years and this year Alabama has faced Tennessee (crossover) and Vandy, Missouri and Kentucky as the wild card rotating team. This year Bama plays two ranked teams (LSU and A&M) and has bye weeks before each of them. Like last year, they can lose one of the ranked games and still back into the BCS title b/c they have the SEC Meat Grinder schedule that the media plays up. Don't they make the schedule a few seasons in advance. I don't think you can necessarily predict which SEC team is going to be in the basement except those who normally dwell down there. I know I didn't expect aTm have the early success they did.

I agree to an extent. I think Wisconsin will provide somewhat of a spark to the excitement, but yea. If the playoff system is going off strength of schedule amongst the top teams then...............

Usually when you argue with people on Huskerboard you aren't a "true" fan. That's where this is going, so good thinking on your part to head it off before someone calls you out Awww, you found a buddy to make strawperson arguments with. What's wrong your buddy isn't giving you attention.......You can sit at our table color if you want.

Usually when you argue with people on Huskerboard you aren't a "true" fan. That's where this is going, so good thinking on your part to head it off before someone calls you out Jedi mind tricks......

Well, the original argument was that Green/Lee in 2010 provided quality depth at the QB position. Someone said no they weren't but suggested that Armstrong/Kellogg is quality depth. I asked how is a QB who's 4/11 for 22 yards, 3 yards rushing on 2 attempts, 1TD/1Int/1Fumble, accompanied with a freshman QB who hasn't played a game quality depth but two QBs whom have at least 2 games of starting experience not. Then all of this came about......

Your quotes not mine. I am not the only person who thinks he was still injured. do this. Read my post out loud, maybe that will help you. I acknowledged that he was injure, but I don't think his injury was the reason he didn't produce and that their was no evidence physically no did anyone out side of the inside or outside of the program mention that he seems to be less than 100% in any of his games after seeing that he wasn't producing like he did vs Ark St. When Martinez got injured, you noticed the limp the rest of the season. I didn't see Lee grab an elbow, stretch his arm or even ice a shoulder not once during the games you and others claim he sustained the injury in. I stated, obviously there's an injury because he got surgery at the end of that season, but I don't think it was early in the year because there were no physical signs of struggle in his physical ability other than he just wasn't as athletic as everyone hoped he would be. You are trying to hard my friend. Unless you know where a clip is showing him physically hindering his mechanics, or a commentator suggesting they see a difference in his ability possibly due to injury of some sort, or a link suggesting that he got dinged up in one of the games y'all claim he sustained the injury in, then we'll just have to agree to disagree. Because the only "evidence" that your using to support your opinions is speculation. Or at least tell me why it's a great idea to tell no one about an injury keeping you from competing at the level you are capable of being at consistently, but after the season, it's the subject in your very first interview after you had your best game, allowing it to be the "cliche" subject of choice so that we have a reason to ignore the fact that the offense he led was the worst since the 60s. I must be a terrible fan because I refuse to believe that he's better than he actually showed in his career.......

All you have to do is read the thread. I'm not arguing his injury. I simply am stating that I don't think his injury is the SOLE PURPOSE of his lack of production throughout his career here. I mentioned the torn labrum because that's one of the rumors I heard then. I also hear it was an injure to his non-throwing hand, others say it was that he re-injured his elbow or something.....I don't remember any of the rumors being confirmed. All I know is that he was practicing after the Mizzou game but wasn't playing. After the season ended as HE stated that he was fine within that week that the injury was mentioned during the 2010 season. Bo, said he will be fine and that it was nothing serious. Being that nothing was confirmed, yet he wasn't playing I go by my own theory of maybe he just isn't as good as most are cracking out to be since Green was called on to start for the ISU game and the CU game.

Oh, Pelini vs Pelini to start off the season.....haha.

haha - no crap. that is brutal....worse than our first year even. The month of October will be very brutal for them. And they won't get a break til the 15 of November.

comprehension my friend......it works wonders.....never said I didn't think he was injured. I said I don't think his injury was the soul reason he wasn't as great a player as he was hype up to be going into his Jr. season......big difference........but go ahead and have that drink.

This link is from 2010. The discussion was about the 2009 season. Lee had surgery on his elbow in the first week of January, 2010. Yes, I know. The comments from Paul and Pelini were about Lee's throwing and health after his surgery, a few weeks before the start of fall camp. Showing that he was healthy and not nagging from any injury the previous season, thus the excuse some used as to why he couldn't produce enough to keep his starting job in fall camp. Zac Lee got re-injured in 2010, actually, without it ever being officially reported. Not during preseason, when he was healthy and still beaten out by Taylor as the coaches thought he fit the offensive direction best and gave the best chance to win, but he would have gotten the go-ahead when Taylor was hurt if he was healthy and capable of doing so. I know this.....I think the rumor on here was a torn Labrum sometime during or after the Mizzou game......did Lee receive surgery? I don't remember anything suggesting he did. A physician told me that an injury like that without surgery and going to physical therapy at least 3-4 times a week, it could take any where's from 4 weeks to 8 months to get back to full strength. And sometimes you still don't get to 100%. That's depending on the severity of the injury, of course, but in this case he miss the rest of the season, IIRC. So without surgery on a injury that took him out for the last month of his senior season, Lee was able to get back to full strength in time for pro day at the beginning of March & have a good enough showing that the Seahawks showed a little interest in him after seeing his numbers. I'll ignore the fact that he was practicing during the end of his senior season, which caused many posters to say that Lee was still in "Bo's doghouse" which is another conspiracy to why Lee didn't get the starting spot out of fall camp. I'll also, ignore the fact that Lee said himself in an interview on the radio that he was healthy enough to go the following week and that the injury wasn't major at all (he said something about hitting his hand on a helmet or something). Let's also ignore the fact that Bo said Lee will be fine during the week following the Mizzou game. I guess it just depends on which side you would like to stand on I guess.

I agree. I'm by far not stating Cody Green was the best option we had at QB, but I do believe he wasn't utilize according to his skill set...No he didn't run the ZR well. Green is a pro-style back and needed to be in a pro-style system. Green would have been a much better QB in a Brady Hoke system at Michigan (or at least what he's molding the team into now after Shoelace's departure). NU didn't have an identity on offense for a while because the HC wanted it to look like something the OC either wasn't capable of delivering or refused to altar his philosophies in delivering, thus they tried to meet in the middle and we got what we saw in 2009. This is the reason Watson wanted Green over Martinez. It's the reason why he recruited Green so hard. He was the type of QB that Watson needs to run his system....Just look at Brett Nelson & Will Gardner, two QBs he recruited to Louisiville since he arrived there. Green runs a similar system down in Tulsa now. (P.S. he wasn't slow off the line, just not as fast with his first step as Martinez) To be fair, Martinez didn't run the ZR very well either, but his raw ability was able to delete a wrong read because he could get to top speed almost immediately and he wasn't being caught if he's already in stride. Lee actually ran the ZR best of the three but for some reason he just looked to be running in sand when he was on the move.. I don't understand that because he ran a 4.5 40 yard dash. He just never seem to get up the field like someone with a 40 time in that range. I think his longest run came vs Arizona for 10 yards. It's comment's like "RK isn't very fast nor a great passer but he's probably our best" that puzzles me. How can a man who has done next to nothing as a back up be considered our best? Carnes is 2/2 for 26 yards (only game he threw passes was vs Chattanooga). Neither of these two do I consider to even have an argument of being a quality back up. Yet Green's accomplishments as a starter for 4 games is laughable....... I was stating that Kellogg is the best thrower we have on the roster, but none of our QB's are excellent passers. Oh okay. Have you seen Armstrong's throwing....He's not too shabby. One think that jumps in and out of my mind is Martinez....I wonder if he still has the ability to improve on his passing, or is has he reached his peak. Either or, I think it would be good enough for NU to get to where they need to be this season as last season he shut quite a few critics up, even myself at times.

She we not talk about them because they are irrelevant? What else would you have us do, wait til fall camp and discuss what goes on just in that day. Title of the thread: Taylor Martinez 2013 discussion Does that answer your question? I don't know what your unhealthy obsession with Cody Green is about, but it is about time to let it go. He was an average game manager. Zac Lee was a better game manager. He was never going to fit here with the way Bo wanted the offense to go. He wasn't better than Taylor then. He is absolutely not as good as Taylor now. I wouldn't change them for a second. As far as Taylor's year, I think the improvement on the offensive line and another year of experience for RBs and WRs will really help him excel. I worry about the TEs in the running game other than Long. We shall see if he can clean up his ball protection. I think if you take into account his work ethic in the offseason we could have a scary good QB this season. You know, 2013. No, the thread title just stats the reason the OP started the thread. Through discussion the back ups to the player he mention came about, Green/Lee/Carnes/Kellogg were/are all back ups during that time. Nice try though. And what's so unhealthy about me saying that Green wasn't a bum. I never stated he was better than Martinez then nor now. I even pointed out that I don't think he would have been able to run the system he was put in simply because of his skill set. Try again. So, back to my question. What would you have us do? If you mention Martinez, you are talking about husker QBs, thus former husker QBs will be brought up. Now the minute a Martinez thread is started and someone starts discussing the defensive problems and who was a better LB, etc......then I'll give you one of these "+1".

Should we not talk about them because they are irrelevant? What else would you have us do, wait til fall camp and discuss what goes on just in that day.

Only those who click on the thread and take time to write a response, even if it doesn't contribute to the discussion..... Not doggin on you here, actually an honest question....how is it that you've been a member for 4 years, have 133 total posts now - and 20% of them have come in the last 3 days, in this thread, defending Cody Green or calling me emotional? What gives? Did I call you emotional.....I don't remember that. I apologize. I signed up 4 years ago, but do to my career I wasn't able to start posting immediately. Eventually I couldn't remember my password or email I used when signed up. I ended up just signing up on another husker message board, which I still post on. I came across the welcome email while clearing out my inbox and was able to get my password. I'm a very sarcastic but fun going individual. Nothing I say on this board is meant to come off rude or as a personal attack in anyway. I just think it's weird I say one thing and it gets blown out of the box as if my opinion/theory/thought isn't as valid as the next poster's, like in the Dayne/Rozier conversation. People misinterpret my original point and focus on just the part that they don't agree with and make it seem as if I'm bashing or discrediting a husker I spent years cheering for just like the next fan. I mention the same things on other Husker boards and no not all agreed but they understood my point of view as well as stated their own, rather than trying to make me out to be some bad guy who doesn't like the huskers. Most of my current posts are just me trying to re-explain my opinion because new members keep coming into a conversation making me out to saying something I'm not. It's all good though. Helps me to get through the off season as well as have decent football talk. I don't know everything. I never want to make it out to seem like I think I do. I just don't like when my post is comprehended incorrectly and then they argue that point with a "passion"....

This link is from 2010. The discussion was about the 2009 season. Lee had surgery on his elbow in the first week of January, 2010. Yes, I know. The comments from Paul and Pelini were about Lee's throwing and health after his surgery, a few weeks before the start of fall camp. Showing that he was healthy and not nagging from any injury the previous season, thus the excuse some used as to why he couldn't produce enough to keep his starting job in fall camp.

I agree. I'm by far not stating Cody Green was the best option we had at QB, but I do believe he wasn't utilize according to his skill set...No he didn't run the ZR well. Green is a pro-style back and needed to be in a pro-style system. Green would have been a much better QB in a Brady Hoke system at Michigan (or at least what he's molding the team into now after Shoelace's departure). NU didn't have an identity on offense for a while because the HC wanted it to look like something the OC either wasn't capable of delivering or refused to altar his philosophies in delivering, thus they tried to meet in the middle and we got what we saw in 2009. This is the reason Watson wanted Green over Martinez. It's the reason why he recruited Green so hard. He was the type of QB that Watson needs to run his system....Just look at Brett Nelson & Will Gardner, two QBs he recruited to Louisiville since he arrived there. Green runs a similar system down in Tulsa now. (P.S. he wasn't slow off the line, just not as fast with his first step as Martinez) To be fair, Martinez didn't run the ZR very well either, but his raw ability was able to delete a wrong read because he could get to top speed almost immediately and he wasn't being caught if he's already in stride. Lee actually ran the ZR best of the three but for some reason he just looked to be running in sand when he was on the move.. I don't understand that because he ran a 4.5 40 yard dash. He just never seem to get up the field like someone with a 40 time in that range. I think his longest run came vs Arizona for 10 yards. It's comment's like "RK isn't very fast nor a great passer but he's probably our best" that puzzles me. How can a man who has done next to nothing as a back up be considered our best? Carnes is 2/2 for 26 yards (only game he threw passes was vs Chattanooga). Neither of these two do I consider to even have an argument of being a quality back up. Yet Green's accomplishments as a starter for 4 games is laughable.......

Where did I state that I don't remember? Your throwing words into something once again, so you can debate about something you obviously are WRONG about. Zac Lee was not close to 100%. I know of this, you have some other VERY knowledgeable Husker fans saying this EXACT same thing. I am done trying to explain to you that Lee was injured. This is worse than talking to a brick wall. Zac Lee was not 100%, and had a lingering issue, which effected his Senior year, that's that. I'm going to need you to pay attention to the conversation especially something YOU wrote. I simply responded with how do you remember something that didn't happen. I didn't say that you "stated you don't remember"...... now if you can show me a clip that suggest that what you said in this post is true I'll openly & sincerely apologize for questioning your memory.... And how do you KNOW more about Lee's injury than the next poster on this board. What you know you read about in newspapers, online, and/or other message boards and blogs. Unless of course you are the physician who actually looked over him or the doctor who performed his surgery. You don't have to explain to me he was injured. I know he was injured. I stated state in a few post above that his injury obviously was serious enough because he needed surgery to correct it. I just laugh at when everyone tries to speculate when it actually occurred and how much of his ability did it take from him. He did say when exactly it happened, but made the announcement at the end of the season.....fans/media ran with it. I'm suppose to believe he would have been an All Conference/American player if he didn't sustain an injury in 09. And because he wasn't successful in keeping his job or even being the back up the following season, it's because the injury was holding him back, even though two weeks before fall camp Pelini & Niles Paul stated that Lee was 100% and putting some zip on the ball......... http://www.fannation.com/truth_and_rumors/view/209470-qb-lee-is-just-fine

Mad? From a message board..........far from it. Ahhh, the famous "let me educate you"......drum roll then you drop yet another opinion that holds the same amount of weight as my or the next man's opinion....... I'll help you, none of those guys were world beaters. Lee lead an offense that ranked 86th overall at the end of the season 101st in passing & 9th in rushing. We were able to move the ball on the ground, which is what saved our season. After the ISU loss the offense went into safe mode and played "not to lose the game". We depended heavily on Suh & co that whole season. Lee's best game against a quality opponent was vs Arizona in the Holiday Bowl. Lee was 13/23 for 173 yards 1 TD. Carried the ball 18 times for 65 yards. People act like those are stats that suggest he embarrassed Arizona's defense. The game was great because of the result of a Nick Foles lead offense going up against a N.Suh lead defense, you know the same defense who made a Heisman trophy finalist look like he was a back up in the CCG. Arizona's offense produced 6 1st downs, 46 passing yards, 63 rushing yards, 0 TDs, 0 FGs,. It's not like they were penalized throughout the game. They had 2 penalties for 25 yards. So that shows they were disciplined. Nick Foles was 6/20 with 28 yards 0 TDs & 1 Int. Lee was a good game manager, but because he was dynamic or able to complete scoring drives is the reason he was 3rd on the depth chart the following season, behind a freshman who know D-1 program gave an offer for QB and a sophomore whom was throw into games well before he was mentally ready due to a transfer and injury in the offseason. On to Cody Green......didn't get the job done? What was his job? I thought it was to lead the team to a W. Sounds to me that he did his job. Now I'm not saying he was the second coming of Frazier or anything close to it, but when was place in the game, lead the team to victories (obviously with the exception of the OU game his freshman year.... So, let me educate you....... If you actually pay attention to the discussion, my point was we had quality depth in 2010 due to having two QBs whom had not only game time experience but were starter for at least a game or two, behind our freshman QB. I don't understand how this years QB situation is considered QUALITY DEPTH but 2010 is consider NO DEPTH. What has Ron Kellogg done that says he is a quality back up. His #s are comparable to Brion Carnes, who everyone quickly points out wasn't quality. Tommy Armstrong, I expect to be a serious threat to our opponents in years to come, but he hasn't done anything yet, so his hype is no different from Lee being consider a better QB than Joe Ganz, Green being called "superman", the "savior", or the "next Tommie Frazier", Carnes being a great steal from "Western Kentucky", Turner being talented enough to challenge Martinez at the position as a freshman, Starling taking the role from Martinez first year on campus, and so on and so on...... They all sound good and gave hope, excitement, flare, to the spirit of fans in the off season, but they mean nothing until the kid gets on the field and makes headlines.

Iowa State, Baylor, Colorado... Whoopty friggin doo.... Also, I'm assuming by "team player" you mean "playa" and spending time with chicks and not in the playbook, right? Who did Ron Kellogg beat?.................My point exactly. If I remember correctly Zac Lee took all the snaps in the Iowa St game in which NU lost........... But these two are quality depth, but Cody Green was a bum.......right....... and no....I said it correct the first time.....he was a TEAM PLAYER......Cody Green was a class act on campus, very respectful, up beat and his teammates loved him. He came from a great house hold. I respected the way he carried himself even when he was in high school. Let's stay on subject, or close your mouth if you have nothing to add rather than making idiotic comments about a former husker's character that you know nothing about. He's done nothing to disrespect this program, even in his departure, you don't have to be a fan of him but childish comments about his character shouldn't be added into a conversation, especially if it's off topic. I would really suggest you to learn how to speak to others on this board, and show some more respect. All I see is you crying and bitching at people. You are consistently arguing with people over crap that you don't even know about. Even more pathetic thing, you start to say sh#t like that when you get your panties in a bunch. I suggest you keep your suggestions to yourself. Whenever I personally attack a poster, then I'll give some value to your "suggestion" of me learning how to talk on a football message board. But if I think a statement is baffoon-ish, ignorant, and/or way off base, then I will call it as such. Don't address me about how I ask someone to stay on subject rather than making personal attack's at a kids character because he no longer wears the scarlet and cream. I suggest that you realize that your importance and authority ends at your desk before you type in a response, if you think that actions like that are "okay" and I'm suppose to just look pass it. There are a lot a great kids on that roster, some names we all recognize and others we wouldn't. I have the privilege of meeting working with and helping quite a few of them. Some kids I happen to know or meet before they become huskers. When I hear crap said about a players character that I feel is out of line and/or inappropriate and completely false, I'll say something about it. You don't like it, go b***h, tough titty.

I am not sure how he didn't see that Lee was obviously not healthy. IIRC, there was a commentator who stated something during the Missouri game, that he doesn't think he ever recovered from his injury. I also remember hearing that the reason we saw Cody Green, instead of Zac Lee, in the A&M game, was because Lee was unable to play due to his elbow once again. How do you remember something that didn't happen. I have both games on DVD from the broadcast and it didn't mention nothing that you quoted here. How's bout you go back and watch any of the games during the 09 season and let me know what commentator if any even hinted that Lee looks to be suffering from some undisclosed injury........anyone can mention it the next season during a game where he's struggling. It was the cliche of choice during the offseason......Lee was injure. 1st it was said he was injure before the ISU game, then it was during the Mizzou game. Then it was during the VT game, now in this thread it originally happened during the Ark St game......funny how the injury origination continues to move closer and closer to the beginning every time someone comes back and mentions well he didn't play that well in _____ game before the injury.......

Please......name one player in history who went an entire season with an injury that required surgery, that so obviously hindered his production, yet we saw no signs of it in any of the games. Excuses can be made forever, but fact is, Lee only looked like a NFL caliber QB vs Sun Belt teams. Roy Helu went through an entire season with a bum shoulder. He continued to play, and it was obvious that it was taking away from his ability, but we knew it not only because the coaches came forth with it, but because you can see how he was trying to protect it, while still playing with 110% effort. Rex had severe injuries during his 1st and last year, we saw how he carried himself on and off the field during that time. What about after Martinez's injury, we were able to see the difference in his statue, regardless of not knowing everything the doctor knew about his conditions...............But Zac Lee. He bombs for a whole season with the exception of some Sun Belt match ups. Never shows any sign of wear and tear in any games, just the inability to produce. At the end of the season he tells everyone that he was injured those whole season, and we dismiss his lack of production and use it as an excuse to why he still couldn't produce the following season or even hold on to his starting spot. He doesn't get drafted, doesn't get a call about a Free Agent interest. Doesn't get invited to a mini camp. Doesn't make a practice squad.....nothing. And none of that has anything to do with he just isn't a good QB. It's all on this ghost injury that's keeping him down.......ok. You are, quite frankly, completely wrong that there was no in-season evidence of Zac's injury. Go find the 2009 Va Tech and Missouri games and see how wobbly, weak and inaccurate his passes were. Even with little sample sizing of his healthy ability, it was obvious to me and many others that he was incapable of throwing the football the way he wanted and was trying to. His arm betrayed him. How is that evidence of an injury? Is every player who played great in high school or JUCO and/or in practice then has a bad showing in a game, showing evidence of an injury........I guess LaTravis Washington was injured. Brion Carnes had a great spring game and must of some how got injured before the fall camp. Same with Ron Kellogg.....must of had a severe injury because those he appeared in 4 games this past season, he still didn't look half as good as he did in scrimmage before the season started...... P.S. Lee must of been injured during portions of the FAU game. There was a couple bad plays in that where Lee missed a wide open target twice....what about the interception.....yea, I'm sure the injury started creeping up quickly.......Lee must of got really healthy during the Louisiana Lafeyette Game. He almost played a perfect game. 15/18 238 yards. A TD no turnovers. but that darn injury came right back the next week huh?