Notre Dame Joe

I might be in the minority with this opinion, but I don't see how stripping Bush's Heisman does anything for you. Sure, the "university" doesn't deserve it, but Reggie Bush does at the very least. Whatever benefits he received, they didn't make him a physically gifted athlete.

 

Stripping Bush of the Heisman makes perfect sense. Would Bush have gone to USC without the illegal perks he got? Without the team surrounding him at USC, does he perform half as well as he did?

 

There are Heisman-worthy players all over the country, but since many of them play on weaker teams, they don't stand out as much. Bush stood out because he was on a team of all-stars, a team that may not have been put together without those impermissible benefits.

 

Taking away his Heisman also sends a message to other top-tier athletes that there are consequences for violating NCAA rules. You don't get to take the illegal perks without losing your benefits.

Or, you keep the Heisman at USC and use it as a reminder to never do what this kid did.

 

The problem I see with this is that EVERYBODY still knows who Reggie Bush is, and they will continue to know who he is for a very long time. If you're going to strip the Heisman, why not strip the wins and the championships? It seems like USC is making Bush a fall guy for their mistakes, rather than making everybody responsible for the mistakes as a collective whole. Plus, if you're going to strip the Heisman, then why not take away the revenue that he supplied the school? IMHO, taking away the Heisman doesn't change anything and it makes Bush out to be the fall guy, when the university itself isn't innocent.

 

Distancing themselves from Bush doesn't change the fact that he was still the best player in college football that year. If you strip the Heisman, then strip everything else you benefited from as a university. Don't just take away a Heisman so you feel better about yourselves.

 

You don't punish someone by letting them keep a prize they won under illicit circumstances. Bush wasn't a victim here - he knew he was getting illegal benefits. What is it about Reggie Bush that makes you think he should get to keep the trophy? Why not strip the wins and championships? I'm all for that, too. They cheated, and they should e punished. But this tangent about USC making Bush the fall guy... USC didn't receive illicit benefits, Reggie Bush did. Bush's actions were a direct violation; USC benefited indirectly. If anyone should be punished first, it's Bush. Personally, I think they should both be punished.

 

And no, Bush wasn't the best player in college football that year, Vince Young was. Bush was the most popular player on the most popular team, that's all. Vince was the better player, and proved it on the field.

 

Southern Cal benefited way more than whatever paltry sum Bush received from the the agents, see the thread on top earners in CFB. They knowingly and intentionally allowed illegal money to flow to their players because it got them back on top of totem pole.

 

First of all, estimates range between $100,000 and $300,000 that Bush received from various sources, which is not a paltry sum, but that's not the point. The point is that Bush received benefits DIRECTLY from the agent. I'm not giving USC a pass here - they're guilty too. But because they are also guilty does not mean Bush isn't guilty, nor does it mean that Bush shouldn't face consequences.

 

I don't understand why this concept is so hard for people to grasp. There are so many excuses being made for Reggie Bush.... it's baffling.

 

Not only Reggie Bush, but his parents. You would think that parents would try to set an example for their children; apparently, Bush's parents were in on the negotiations on how much Reggie should get for not only himself, but for his parent's new home. The apple didn't fall too far...

I dislike Bush as much as anyone because he verballed to Notre Dame and then something or someone changed his mind.

But I blame the atheletes the least in these situations. I doubt there are very many kids who would refuse offers of money and other stuff. Especially ones from poor and working class backgrounds who arrive in a college football world where that is the norm.

I might be in the minority with this opinion, but I don't see how stripping Bush's Heisman does anything for you. Sure, the "university" doesn't deserve it, but Reggie Bush does at the very least. Whatever benefits he received, they didn't make him a physically gifted athlete.

 

Stripping Bush of the Heisman makes perfect sense. Would Bush have gone to USC without the illegal perks he got? Without the team surrounding him at USC, does he perform half as well as he did?

 

There are Heisman-worthy players all over the country, but since many of them play on weaker teams, they don't stand out as much. Bush stood out because he was on a team of all-stars, a team that may not have been put together without those impermissible benefits.

 

Taking away his Heisman also sends a message to other top-tier athletes that there are consequences for violating NCAA rules. You don't get to take the illegal perks without losing your benefits.

Or, you keep the Heisman at USC and use it as a reminder to never do what this kid did.

 

The problem I see with this is that EVERYBODY still knows who Reggie Bush is, and they will continue to know who he is for a very long time. If you're going to strip the Heisman, why not strip the wins and the championships? It seems like USC is making Bush a fall guy for their mistakes, rather than making everybody responsible for the mistakes as a collective whole. Plus, if you're going to strip the Heisman, then why not take away the revenue that he supplied the school? IMHO, taking away the Heisman doesn't change anything and it makes Bush out to be the fall guy, when the university itself isn't innocent.

 

Distancing themselves from Bush doesn't change the fact that he was still the best player in college football that year. If you strip the Heisman, then strip everything else you benefited from as a university. Don't just take away a Heisman so you feel better about yourselves.

 

You don't punish someone by letting them keep a prize they won under illicit circumstances. Bush wasn't a victim here - he knew he was getting illegal benefits. What is it about Reggie Bush that makes you think he should get to keep the trophy? Why not strip the wins and championships? I'm all for that, too. They cheated, and they should e punished. But this tangent about USC making Bush the fall guy... USC didn't receive illicit benefits, Reggie Bush did. Bush's actions were a direct violation; USC benefited indirectly. If anyone should be punished first, it's Bush. Personally, I think they should both be punished.

 

And no, Bush wasn't the best player in college football that year, Vince Young was. Bush was the most popular player on the most popular team, that's all. Vince was the better player, and proved it on the field.

Southern Cal benefited way more than whatever paltry sum Bush received from the the agents, see the thread on top earners in CFB. They knowingly and intentionally allowed illegal money to flow to their players because it got them back on top of totem pole.

I hope they shortened the 20 min bathroom line.

The ND-NU game after the 93 season should of/would of been an awesome one if we don't have a let down at BC the week after FSU

as much as i would like to see nu beat texas, i doubt it will happen....they out-recruit us..though the 2011 class is shaping up nicely

 

don't think they got it this year...how lucky can they get...or pay off the refs???

If you thought you were screwed in the Big12 title game, what will happen to N this year is probably a felony in your state.

Nice to know our qualtiy loss leads off.

Locker vs. Crouch... the difference.

 

Locker probably plays in the pros.

 

Crouch had better support players.

Crouch could reach the ND endzone by 7th and Goal. (c.f. my avatar)

Since 2003, the champ has been from the South. I'm not sure how the round robin format changes anything in terms of whether the champ is from the South or North. At least everyone plays each other, therefore crowning a champion. Now, they won't have the formula that they had to use a couple years ago when Texas beat OU head to head but lost the tie breaker which cost them a chance at playing for the NC. Now, they won't have a team like KU who had one of the worst strength of schedules getting to a BCS game even though they lost to the North representative. I definitely see it as a silver lining.

Doesn't the Big12 make more money when a KSU upsets in the title game and guarantees 2 BCS slots for their conference?

Story is nice but Rich Rod = Michigan's Bill Callahan.

Yep you said it right their. Michigan will never get back to national power if RichRod is still their. They shouldve won 9 games last year.

 

 

That's just silly, with a freshman who try's to make more out of what's there at the helm against the best defensive conference in the nation...9 wins? I think not.

 

I think RichRod will bring, and has started to bring, a great offence to Michigan. But we'll need a good, doesn't have to be great, but good defense. Which we just don't have right now, and I'm not sure RR will ever get the chance.

 

I'm not a RR supporter, I'm a Michigan supporter, which means I'm for what's best. I think RR deserved time to get things going, and I think he has gotten a raw deal while he's been in Ann Arbor. But at the end of the day I want a winning team, and if that means putting a more traditional Michigan coach in, then so be it. I just don't want to go through what ND has.

 

/I miss John Cooper

You already have, except with consecutive losing seasons.

I think it is odd that you guys complain about "manufactured" rivalries. All rivalries were manufactured at some point. Recipe for rivalry:

 

1) Any competitive reason at all

2) Time

 

Really. MOST rivalries even start out of territorial proximity (OU, guys) and I don't see how it would be any different for Iowa. Clearly the people in the border region are already experiencing tensions among their family and coworkers and such. It seems like a natural rivalry to me.

 

Nebraska fans complain about it because we've had to deal with Colorado deciding we were a rivalry without any sort of record to bring to it. Having horrible fans throwing balloons of bodily fluids, screwing with cars with Nebraska liscence plates, throwing batteries, other foreign objects in the stands or on the field during the game doesn't make a game a rivalry. If you trounce a team for decades its not a rivalry, its just them being pissed off about it while Nebraska looked at them as an automatic win on the schedule. Those days of automatic wins were gone in the late 90 and pretty much destroyed by Callahan though so who knows, it still would've taken Colorado like 35 consecutive wins to even the series. Not much of a rival in most Nebraska fan's eyes.

 

Mizzou did start to develop into more of one because the game actually started to have implications for winning the b12 north.

 

OU was historically one because the game meant winning the big 8 and had national bowl implications for a long long time. Although it pretty much died when Switzer left and turned into a game of respect and fond memories in the big 12 every other year.

Well, you will be going to Columbus eventually...

Regularly scheduled opponents become default rivals anyway, or claim they are. Our Rival is USC, but we get to hear Purdue/Stanford/BC et al toss around the R word when they beat us the previous year.

For NU it has to be Penn St. The history is there. PSU also lost their old rivalry with Pitt and has had no one since.

Rich Rod knows nothing about it. I look forward to seeing him on C-Span.

Trying not to think of what would have happened in Frazier had gone to ND... no Ron Powlus, 1 more title, no Boob Davie ... Nice pick up Huskers.

Because you are getting Starling?

Oh dear.

 

 

I'm lovin' the Big 10 folks.

I will bump after N's first trip to Columbus, and again after your first title game vs Mich.

This makes tons of sense. Let's have the South Bend teams commute to Texas and Kansas while the team from Lincoln goes to Illinois.

While we're at it. Let's put BC in with Miami and FSU while South Florida joins the ... oh wait.

I hate Notre Dame for an entirely stupid reason.

 

When I was working a summer job at an amusement park between my sophomore and junior years of college I was off work for the night, hanging out at said park with work friends, and had on my PSU sweatshirt. Some flunkie doofus that looked to be in his mid 20s said to me, "yo, you should get a real sweatshirt". I asked him who that would be and he said, "Notre Dame, they're the best. Penn State sucks."

 

I asked him if he went to Notre Dame. He said, "No. I just think they're the best".

 

And that describe the typical, open mouth breathing moron that flunked fractions in high school and wears junky Wal-Mart made Notre Dame clothing. A doofus that couldn't find Indiana on a map, let alone South Bend, yet somehow believes a Univesity is superior to another solely for the fact that they have a winning football team...and tells somebody as much.

 

Yeah, yeah...stupid I know. But after that I feelings of Notre Dame were solidified. I hate them and hope they never get in the Big Ten and continue to suck on national TV for the next 40 years. I was really sad to see the Tick leave, he was the best head coach ever. Proudly leading the Irish to seasons of suck.

 

 

The subway alumni are the soul of The Family. I'm glad for them when ND wins, 2nd only to the kids in the stands.

 

I couldn't have found South Bend on a blank map during my first two years.

Wait...hold on. You went to Notre Dame and you're admitting that, as a college sophomore, if somebody handed you a blank map of the United States you wouldn't have been able to ascertain within a diameter of your finger the location of your home?

 

...I think we can rule Notre Dame out for future consideration by the Big 10 on the basis of academic inelligibility.

That would depend on the size of your finger. I flew in from New Hampshire. I had heard (and believed) that 'South Bend' referred to the curve of the border of Ind/IL so I thought I was @ 100 miles south. And we rarely left campus at all, it was our little world.

Swap PSU and Illinois and it makes sense. It seems like its tailored to fit the current balance of power which is always subject to change.

NostraDame Joe predicts that the only thing "tailored" is maximizing scUM/eOSU's chances of going to the Conference title game, that will be held in their state.

An East vs West with PSU mysteriously with the West accomplishes that.

Was the greater reason for Nebraska swtiching conferences money or the departure from Texas?

my question is, will NU have to pay the exit fee?

Did Texas keep the Big12(10) together so N has to pay it?

I hate Notre Dame for an entirely stupid reason.

 

When I was working a summer job at an amusement park between my sophomore and junior years of college I was off work for the night, hanging out at said park with work friends, and had on my PSU sweatshirt. Some flunkie doofus that looked to be in his mid 20s said to me, "yo, you should get a real sweatshirt". I asked him who that would be and he said, "Notre Dame, they're the best. Penn State sucks."

 

I asked him if he went to Notre Dame. He said, "No. I just think they're the best".

 

And that describe the typical, open mouth breathing moron that flunked fractions in high school and wears junky Wal-Mart made Notre Dame clothing. A doofus that couldn't find Indiana on a map, let alone South Bend, yet somehow believes a Univesity is superior to another solely for the fact that they have a winning football team...and tells somebody as much.

 

Yeah, yeah...stupid I know. But after that I feelings of Notre Dame were solidified. I hate them and hope they never get in the Big Ten and continue to suck on national TV for the next 40 years. I was really sad to see the Tick leave, he was the best head coach ever. Proudly leading the Irish to seasons of suck.

The subway alumni are the soul of The Family. I'm glad for them when ND wins, 2nd only to the kids in the stands.

I couldn't have found South Bend on a blank map during my first two years.

They keep turning down invites from the Big 10 and i don't see why the Big 10 keeps going after them. Sure a lot of their teams play ND and fit well but they haven't been relevant in football for quite a while and if their new coach is any indication they won't be playing much defense either. It must be pure academics that the Big 10 wants them?

The same was true of a certain N University not too long ago. Remember N can't win anymore because fast kids from the South don't want to go to that cold blu-collar town? Their offense is obselete... the landscape of college football has changed...

i'd like too see the championship site bounce around a little bit. Indianapolis for two years then ford field then Minnesota then steelers stadium .

 

Just so that as many different venues and cities get as much of the pie as possible. Its a great way too better conference relations with a cities and leave any of them feeling short changed or left out.

 

Yeah I think we've been done that road before...

I suddenly believe it will be in Detroit or Cleveland.

That conference belongs to the Big2: scUM and eOSU. Texas had better bring along the entire old SWC if they plan to sway the Big#.

I was in the stadium and it was sick, even though the white shirts are ND fans. Incidentally yesterday I learned that Nebraska's colors are "Scarlet and Cream".

Joey Getherall at 2:06 lived in the same dorm as me.