carlfense Posted December 9, 2011 Share Posted December 9, 2011 [Moore] lauded the Cuban health care system. For a poor country, they do very well with the limited resources they do have. This a self fullfilling prophesy!! Yeah they are poor,you know why, BECAUSE THEY ARE COMMUNISTS!! The type of govt you and your friends want in this country. Everyone who wants a one payer system, cradle to grave entitlements just look across the sea. Look what happened to the USSR and other communist nations they are or were all poor or bankrupt!! I can't imagine what Cuba would be like if it was a free nation using capitalist principles all these years. I know one thing they wouldn't be worse off that is for sure. Wasn't Cuba poor before they were a communist country? I would guess that the percentage of people in the US who want communism is way below 1%. I hope that sometime in the future those on the right learn that communism is not a synonym for "things I don't agree with." Also just for kicks: Communism is different than Marxism is different than fascism is different than Nazis. Etc. Etc. Cuba from 1933-1958 had a middle class almost comparable to the US. But many were angry about the corruption in the govt. and the unemployment rate. The US was also not allowing free markets in the sugar industry and alligned with Batista to only sell so much sugar. The govt was also paying certain friends and military friends nicely. So it was not true capitalism but more like croney capitalism. In 1958, Cuba was a relatively well-advanced country by Latin American standards, and in some cases by world standards.[ So Cuba was not poor before the revolution. As for the market manipulation by the US that may have some merit but we have seen other communist countries and we know the history of economics with those countries, it doesn't work. How about we hold them to a global standard and not a Latin American standard? Link to comment
johnnyrodgers20 Posted December 9, 2011 Share Posted December 9, 2011 [Moore] lauded the Cuban health care system. For a poor country, they do very well with the limited resources they do have. This a self fullfilling prophesy!! Yeah they are poor,you know why, BECAUSE THEY ARE COMMUNISTS!! The type of govt you and your friends want in this country. Everyone who wants a one payer system, cradle to grave entitlements just look across the sea. Look what happened to the USSR and other communist nations they are or were all poor or bankrupt!! I can't imagine what Cuba would be like if it was a free nation using capitalist principles all these years. I know one thing they wouldn't be worse off that is for sure. Wasn't Cuba poor before they were a communist country? I would guess that the percentage of people in the US who want communism is way below 1%. I hope that sometime in the future those on the right learn that communism is not a synonym for "things I don't agree with." Also just for kicks: Communism is different than Marxism is different than fascism is different than Nazis. Etc. Etc. Cuba from 1933-1958 had a middle class almost comparable to the US. But many were angry about the corruption in the govt. and the unemployment rate. The US was also not allowing free markets in the sugar industry and alligned with Batista to only sell so much sugar. The govt was also paying certain friends and military friends nicely. So it was not true capitalism but more like croney capitalism. In 1958, Cuba was a relatively well-advanced country by Latin American standards, and in some cases by world standards.[ So Cuba was not poor before the revolution. As for the market manipulation by the US that may have some merit but we have seen other communist countries and we know the history of economics with those countries, it doesn't work. How about we hold them to a global standard and not a Latin American standard? did you not see where it said and some cases world standard. Why don't you do a little research that you expect everyone else to do. Many sites say that Cuba's middle class was almost COMPARABLE to the US. Link to comment
carlfense Posted December 9, 2011 Share Posted December 9, 2011 [Moore] lauded the Cuban health care system. For a poor country, they do very well with the limited resources they do have. This a self fullfilling prophesy!! Yeah they are poor,you know why, BECAUSE THEY ARE COMMUNISTS!! The type of govt you and your friends want in this country. Everyone who wants a one payer system, cradle to grave entitlements just look across the sea. Look what happened to the USSR and other communist nations they are or were all poor or bankrupt!! I can't imagine what Cuba would be like if it was a free nation using capitalist principles all these years. I know one thing they wouldn't be worse off that is for sure. Wasn't Cuba poor before they were a communist country? I would guess that the percentage of people in the US who want communism is way below 1%. I hope that sometime in the future those on the right learn that communism is not a synonym for "things I don't agree with." Also just for kicks: Communism is different than Marxism is different than fascism is different than Nazis. Etc. Etc. Cuba from 1933-1958 had a middle class almost comparable to the US. But many were angry about the corruption in the govt. and the unemployment rate. The US was also not allowing free markets in the sugar industry and alligned with Batista to only sell so much sugar. The govt was also paying certain friends and military friends nicely. So it was not true capitalism but more like croney capitalism. In 1958, Cuba was a relatively well-advanced country by Latin American standards, and in some cases by world standards.[ So Cuba was not poor before the revolution. As for the market manipulation by the US that may have some merit but we have seen other communist countries and we know the history of economics with those countries, it doesn't work. How about we hold them to a global standard and not a Latin American standard? did you not see where it said and some cases world standard. Why don't you do a little research that you expect everyone else to do. Many sites say that Cuba's middle class was almost COMPARABLE to the US. Why the focus on the middle class? Why not focus on the populace as a whole? Is it because, on average, Cubans were far less well off than the US both before and after the revolution? http://www.columbia....lution/cuba.htm What did Cuba look like under Fulgencio Batista, the dictator who Castro toppled? Unemployment led to all sorts of hardship. 43% of the rural population was illiterate. 60% lived in huts with earth floors and thatched roofs. 2/3 lived without running water and only 1 out of 14 families had electricity. Daily nutrition was terrible. Only 4% of rural families ate meat regularly. Most subsisted on rice, beans and root crops. Bad diet and housing caused bad health. 13% of the population had a history of typhoid, 14% tuberculosis and over 1/3 intestinal parasites. Edit: anyways, moot point. I'm not arguing in favor of communism or Castro. I'm just pointing out that you it is a shoddy argument to say that a poor country is poor because it chose communism . . . when it was poor long before anyone had heard of Castro. Link to comment
Malth Posted December 9, 2011 Share Posted December 9, 2011 wow, where on earth did this thread go Link to comment
johnnyrodgers20 Posted December 9, 2011 Share Posted December 9, 2011 [Moore] lauded the Cuban health care system. For a poor country, they do very well with the limited resources they do have. This a self fullfilling prophesy!! Yeah they are poor,you know why, BECAUSE THEY ARE COMMUNISTS!! The type of govt you and your friends want in this country. Everyone who wants a one payer system, cradle to grave entitlements just look across the sea. Look what happened to the USSR and other communist nations they are or were all poor or bankrupt!! I can't imagine what Cuba would be like if it was a free nation using capitalist principles all these years. I know one thing they wouldn't be worse off that is for sure. Wasn't Cuba poor before they were a communist country? I would guess that the percentage of people in the US who want communism is way below 1%. I hope that sometime in the future those on the right learn that communism is not a synonym for "things I don't agree with." Also just for kicks: Communism is different than Marxism is different than fascism is different than Nazis. Etc. Etc. Cuba from 1933-1958 had a middle class almost comparable to the US. But many were angry about the corruption in the govt. and the unemployment rate. The US was also not allowing free markets in the sugar industry and alligned with Batista to only sell so much sugar. The govt was also paying certain friends and military friends nicely. So it was not true capitalism but more like croney capitalism. In 1958, Cuba was a relatively well-advanced country by Latin American standards, and in some cases by world standards.[ So Cuba was not poor before the revolution. As for the market manipulation by the US that may have some merit but we have seen other communist countries and we know the history of economics with those countries, it doesn't work. How about we hold them to a global standard and not a Latin American standard? did you not see where it said and some cases world standard. Why don't you do a little research that you expect everyone else to do. Many sites say that Cuba's middle class was almost COMPARABLE to the US. Why the focus on the middle class? Why not focus on the populace as a whole? Is it because, on average, Cubans were far less well off than the US both before and after the revolution? http://www.columbia....lution/cuba.htm What did Cuba look like under Fulgencio Batista, the dictator who Castro toppled? Unemployment led to all sorts of hardship. 43% of the rural population was illiterate. 60% lived in huts with earth floors and thatched roofs. 2/3 lived without running water and only 1 out of 14 families had electricity. Daily nutrition was terrible. Only 4% of rural families ate meat regularly. Most subsisted on rice, beans and root crops. Bad diet and housing caused bad health. 13% of the population had a history of typhoid, 14% tuberculosis and over 1/3 intestinal parasites. Edit: anyways, moot point. I'm not arguing in favor of communism or Castro. I'm just pointing out that you it is a shoddy argument to say that a poor country is poor because it chose communism . . . when it was poor long before anyone had heard of Castro. I was merely pointing out that Cuba was wealthier then as compared to now. It would be interesting to see the literacy rates, housing, and the all the other stats that you showed in today's Cuba. And there will always be poor people just as there will always be rich people but the country as a whole was wealthier when it was a democracy from what I have read! Link to comment
carlfense Posted December 9, 2011 Share Posted December 9, 2011 I was merely pointing out that Cuba was wealthier then as compared to now. It would be interesting to see the literacy rates, housing, and the all the other stats that you showed in today's Cuba. And there will always be poor people just as there will always be rich people but the country as a whole was wealthier when it was a democracy from what I have read! You would probably be surprised. For example ---- Literacy rate: 99.8% of the population over 15 can read and write. Housing isn't listed on the world factbook page but you should be able to find this stuff if you are genuinely interested. https://www.cia.gov/library/publications/the-world-factbook/geos/cu.html Link to comment
johnnyrodgers20 Posted December 9, 2011 Share Posted December 9, 2011 I was merely pointing out that Cuba was wealthier then as compared to now. It would be interesting to see the literacy rates, housing, and the all the other stats that you showed in today's Cuba. And there will always be poor people just as there will always be rich people but the country as a whole was wealthier when it was a democracy from what I have read! You would probably be surprised. For example ---- Literacy rate: 99.8% of the population over 15 can read and write. Housing isn't listed on the world factbook page but you should be able to find this stuff if you are genuinely interested. https://www.cia.gov/...ok/geos/cu.html Definitely surprised by the unemployment rate of the 15-24 age category. 3.1, WOW!! I also noticed this in your article. The quota system also fostered inefficiency and prevented the rational use of agricultural resources. Primarily, it inflated costs and discouraged new investments. Clearly, the goal of modernizing and rationalizing agriculture was not "socialist". Anycapitalist reformer could have taken a look at Cuba and said that capitalism needed to be unleashed in order for the economy to develop. The cartel structure should have been smashed and productive agricultural practices encouraged. Link to comment
carlfense Posted December 9, 2011 Share Posted December 9, 2011 I was merely pointing out that Cuba was wealthier then as compared to now. It would be interesting to see the literacy rates, housing, and the all the other stats that you showed in today's Cuba. And there will always be poor people just as there will always be rich people but the country as a whole was wealthier when it was a democracy from what I have read! You would probably be surprised. For example ---- Literacy rate: 99.8% of the population over 15 can read and write. Housing isn't listed on the world factbook page but you should be able to find this stuff if you are genuinely interested. https://www.cia.gov/...ok/geos/cu.html Definitely surprised by the unemployment rate of the 15-24 age category. 3.1, WOW!! I also noticed this in your article. The quota system also fostered inefficiency and prevented the rational use of agricultural resources. Primarily, it inflated costs and discouraged new investments. Clearly, the goal of modernizing and rationalizing agriculture was not "socialist". Anycapitalist reformer could have taken a look at Cuba and said that capitalism needed to be unleashed in order for the economy to develop. The cartel structure should have been smashed and productive agricultural practices encouraged. Like I said, I'm not defending communism. Just saying that life in Cuba was not great before Castro and it isn't great after Castro. Link to comment
Sub-Husker Posted December 9, 2011 Share Posted December 9, 2011 wow, where on earth did this thread go Cuba. Link to comment
carlfense Posted December 9, 2011 Share Posted December 9, 2011 wow, where on earth did this thread go Cuba. I'd like to go to Cuba. Cigars and rum please. Link to comment
HSKR Posted December 10, 2011 Author Share Posted December 10, 2011 wow, where on earth did this thread go Cuba. I'd like to go to Cuba. Cigars and rum please. I've heard and read many times that Cuba is a very unique place to visit and if the US ever drops the sanctions then go right away before all the commercialism takes over the country and changes it forever. It's in somewhat of a time capsule and the culture has been untouched by American commercialism. Heck they probably have more classic cars there then here. There isn't a country in the world that would take in more tourism money from the US then Cuba would if it was allowed. Link to comment
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