tschu Posted March 17, 2014 Share Posted March 17, 2014 What lol It's like I spend a half hour typing up a really good account and explanation and that's the response that I get. Cripes Link to comment
rawhide Posted March 17, 2014 Share Posted March 17, 2014 It's not about class warfare either. That's a ridiculous angle that Fox News like to play all the time. I don't hate anyone for being rich - I mean isn't that the goal? I don't hate Tiger Woods or Phil Mickleson for being good at my favorite sport of golf. And capitalism is the greatest system society has come up with because when run properly it generates the most productivity, the greatest gains to society, it does create upward mobility and reward hard work. But capitalism with very little regulation and with money driving all of the political decisions in the country creates a situation where hard work isn't rewarded. Where upward mobility is less and less possible. Where, instead of hard work paying off and generating more money to spend and driving a growing economy, the middle class struggles just to get by. So you get what we have now - Families with both parents working long hours - more hours than any country on earth - struggling to get by, drowning in debt, while the very rich just speculate and play with our debt using various speculative investments and securities, able to hedge against losses while playing with other people's money. AND THEN WHEN THE BUBBLE BURSTS WE HAVE TO BAIL THEM OUT USING OUR MONEY TO PREVENT TOTAL ECONOMIC COLLAPSE. There needs to be wealth inequality. It is a product of capitalism. Those who innovate and bust their asses and are talented need to be rewarded with riches. But right now the scale is tipped waaaaaaaaay too far in their favor. I'm not disagreeing with you but what's the solution besides penalizing the most wealthy; possibly some whom have even "worked" for it. ps I'm not wealthy Link to comment
carlfense Posted March 17, 2014 Author Share Posted March 17, 2014 Proves it. They aren't CEO's cause they're stupid. Wealth reflects intelligence? Link to comment
tschu Posted March 17, 2014 Share Posted March 17, 2014 It's not about class warfare either. That's a ridiculous angle that Fox News like to play all the time. I don't hate anyone for being rich - I mean isn't that the goal? I don't hate Tiger Woods or Phil Mickleson for being good at my favorite sport of golf. And capitalism is the greatest system society has come up with because when run properly it generates the most productivity, the greatest gains to society, it does create upward mobility and reward hard work. But capitalism with very little regulation and with money driving all of the political decisions in the country creates a situation where hard work isn't rewarded. Where upward mobility is less and less possible. Where, instead of hard work paying off and generating more money to spend and driving a growing economy, the middle class struggles just to get by. So you get what we have now - Families with both parents working long hours - more hours than any country on earth - struggling to get by, drowning in debt, while the very rich just speculate and play with our debt using various speculative investments and securities, able to hedge against losses while playing with other people's money. AND THEN WHEN THE BUBBLE BURSTS WE HAVE TO BAIL THEM OUT USING OUR MONEY TO PREVENT TOTAL ECONOMIC COLLAPSE. There needs to be wealth inequality. It is a product of capitalism. Those who innovate and bust their asses and are talented need to be rewarded with riches. But right now the scale is tipped waaaaaaaaay too far in their favor. I'm not disagreeing with you but what's the solution besides penalizing the most wealthy; possibly some whom have even "worked" for it. ps I'm not wealthy Raise the taxes, a lot, on the rich. Like it sounds horrible (ZOMG CLASS WARFARE!) but let's go back to at least Reagan-levels of 50% or 60%. Raise capital gains tax to 30-40%. Raise the estate tax back to the level that it used to be so that wealth can find its way back into the economy, not just the wallet of kids of the rich. Cut middle class taxes by a bit, not much. Invest heavily in education. This is key. Give the middle class a platform to stand on to help the US become powerful again in the world economy. Find some way to get money out of politics. This will be the biggest factor, and I'm not sure what the solution is. Getting rid of Super-PACs entirely is a dream, but maybe a pipe dream. This is by far the biggest factor. Get the money out of our elections. I don't think it can be 100% done, but reduced. edit - and I don't have all the answers. I don't! I have suggestions. If someone had all the answers, this stuff would be easy. Link to comment
tschu Posted March 17, 2014 Share Posted March 17, 2014 I'm not disagreeing with you but what's the solution besides penalizing the most wealthy; possibly some whom have even "worked" for it. There needs to be wealth inequality. It is a product of capitalism. Those who innovate and bust their asses and are talented need to be rewarded with riches. But right now the scale is tipped waaaaaaaaay too far in their favor. shifting scales =/= penalizing And it's not even shifting scales to something radically new. It would be shifting scales to the way things were back in the 60s, 70s and 80s. Link to comment
BigRedBuster Posted March 17, 2014 Share Posted March 17, 2014 What prevents people like us from starting a business and making it successful and becoming rich? Link to comment
tschu Posted March 17, 2014 Share Posted March 17, 2014 It's like you didn't even read Link to comment
carlfense Posted March 17, 2014 Author Share Posted March 17, 2014 What prevents people like us from starting a business and making it successful and becoming rich? It's a lot easier to make that argument using generalities . . . Link to comment
BigRedBuster Posted March 17, 2014 Share Posted March 17, 2014 What prevents people like us from starting a business and making it successful and becoming rich? It's a lot easier to make that argument using generalities . . . What do you mean? Link to comment
carlfense Posted March 17, 2014 Author Share Posted March 17, 2014 What prevents people like us from starting a business and making it successful and becoming rich? It's a lot easier to make that argument using generalities . . . What do you mean? Not sure what you're asking . . . Link to comment
rawhide Posted March 19, 2014 Share Posted March 19, 2014 Proves it. They aren't CEO's cause they're stupid. Wealth reflects intelligence? I think I can safely point out numerous politicians that proves weath=intelligence is incorrect. Link to comment
carlfense Posted March 19, 2014 Author Share Posted March 19, 2014 I think I can safely point out numerous politicians that proves weath=intelligence is incorrect. I would agree. I'd offer a couple billionaires who think that an increase in the top marginal tax rate from 35% to 39% is reminiscent of Nazi Germany. Link to comment
rawhide Posted March 19, 2014 Share Posted March 19, 2014 There's a buncha millionaires in the Senate and House who have worse ideas than that. Link to comment
carlfense Posted March 20, 2014 Author Share Posted March 20, 2014 There's a buncha millionaires in the Senate and House who have worse ideas than that. Worse than Nazi Germany? Link to comment
rawhide Posted March 20, 2014 Share Posted March 20, 2014 Depends on your point of view. No, not gas chamber worse. I thought you were referencing the taxes in Nazi Germany not the whole clusterf#@k. Link to comment
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