Complex Offense

[I Bleed RED]

Just a little FYI captain, I do have experience in West Coast offenses. I played college football, and coached college football while in graduate school at a Pac-10 school. I was a quarterback so I have an idea about a few offenses. Want a hint.....I unfortunately beat NU in the Holiday Bowl.

Also, stop talking about me and start talking about the topic.

 

[captain obvious]

Just a little FYI captain, I do have experience in West Coast offenses. I played college football, and coached college football while in graduate school at a Pac-10 school. I was a quarterback so I have an idea about a few offenses. Want a hint.....I unfortunately beat NU in the Holiday Bowl.

Also, stop talking about me and start talking about the topic.

OK, so you were the signal caller on the '98 Arizona Wildcats.

 

[DaveH]

Keith Smith?

 

[BIGREDFAN_in_OMAHA]

I have long been in the camp that believes Coach Callahan has made the offense too complicated and part of becoming a college coach should be to adapt it to college players. Not every player is an academic All-American and I'm certain it can be overwhelming to many of these young minds as they page through the very thick playbook.

I am a fan of Coach Callahan and I do like the system he is developing. I know he stresses getting the players alot of reps. When I saw him speak before the Spring game this year he said the players averaged twice as many reps as a typical team would in the spring. His basis for comparison was Auburn which had a couple coaches up this spring and he had asked them how many reps they normally had per practice. I'm certain having all the reps does help especially with muscle memory and making everything second nature. Yet I also think it would take awhile in the system to learn the plays so they are second nature.

 

[I Bleed RED]

Well, I guess I shouldn't say played...LOL. I never took a snap on the field except in total garbage timeand that was only twice. BUT Keith is one of my great friends and the person I ltalk to a lot when we break down offenses and teams. He is often the person I use as an unbiased opinion to make sure I am not just being a hater.

 

[captain obvious]

Well, I guess I shouldn't say played...LOL. I never took a snap on the field except in total garbage timeand that was only twice. BUT Keith is one of my great friends and the person I ltalk to a lot when we break down offenses and teams. He is often the person I use as an unbiased opinion to make sure I am not just being a hater.

Well, congrats to you on your fine career. But I'm pretty sure that all parties involved with game plan formulation, playcalling, and even play execution have a bit more perspective on this situation than you do.

Chillax dude.

Now to stay on topic: Is the system too complex? I think the answer to this question lies in the partial derivative of the following equation with respect to :hellloooo : y(x,z, :hellloooo ) = 900000x^2 + :corndance -2z + :hellloooo ^ :madash .

 

[I Bleed RED]

And those people on this board that are part of that would be???

 

[captain obvious]

And those people on this board that are part of that would be???

That's kind of my overall point. Speculation is for fans. Criticism is for journalists and other professional hangers-on. Legitimate evaluation is for coaches, players, assistants, trainers, etc. Firing Coach Bill Callahan is for Steve Pederson.

 

[robsker]

so after all the bullsh#t, has this system been proven to be anymore productive than any other one used at NU? and if so, how would we know that?

Good question. I'd say that we do not have enough data to say definatively. It will take more time to see if there is some sustained success.

But wow, what a high benchmark to set! To compare any system to the success that the Devany/Osborne in their day is a tall order. The NU offensive system, operative in the 70's, 80's and early 90's (which itself evolved) will likely never see an equal --- or even a close competitor. That said, that was then and this is now.

Maybe he's good?!? What are you implying?

And yes, I know what you're implying...but go ahead and say it.

Not implying anything, simply stating. Based on what we have seen so far, my take is that Cally's playcalling is weak. But..... we have not seen enough to know whether that has been situational (not his players, not the proper talent level, etc.) or not. Further, people do get better and grow into what they are doing. he is new (sort of) to college football. So, the verdict cannot be made now --- by this time next year or seasons end next year, probably. Right now, I would say the early indication is that he is weak as a gameday coach. Now, he has some strengths --- recruiting is one of them. He is typically good at bringing in assistants. He has clearly a great work ethic. He has positive attributes and I appreciate him and his contributions. Perhaps it is too early to see him give the offense over to someone else --- but it should be noted that few head coaches are the offensive playcaller as well.

 

[skersOVRsc]

My god. Have any of you ever played football before? Yes, the calls are more complicated than 32 Dive like in high school or junior high, but it's not like the players are mentally challenged. Gimme a break.

Every player has a part of the call that they have to pay attention to. The only one that really has to have it all together is the QB because they have to spit the play out in the huddle.

Oh and as far as guessing run or pass. Well, you have a 50 50 shot. Not really surprising that you'd be able to guess right.

The terminology is to complicated to pick up for the kids.

Kids? Kids?

Sam Keller is a kid? He's 23 years old for Christ sake.

Here's an example. Tell me what's complicated about this. I took these from a slide show on the West Coast offense.

You have a route call, backs call and a line call.

It might be too complicated for a bunch of guys to play in a back yard, but it definitely isn't too complicated for a kid who has been playing football for the better half of his life.

:yeah This isnt a special ed class, its D1 football (done in a Dan Hawkins voice). Football was invented long befor Carols rule of let the freshmen play and I'm sick of that being the battle cry of most Callahan haters. So what if it is best suited for kids who have been in the program for a couple years, successfull programs let kids sit all the f'ing time. NU was one of three teams to finish in the top 25 in rushing offense, passing offense and scoring offense..........and magicaly we did it with all these overwhelmed confused players...........get over it. :steam

 

[Hunter94]

successful programs don't let the really good kids (freshman, USC is one team that comes to mind) sit around and wait. THEY PLAY THEM!

I believe the stat from last year was that USC STARTED 17 freshman!

If cally's system prevents that due to its complexity, then yes, there is a price to be paid for the system, keeping the best guys off the field.

and there are many other coaches who get top talent freshman on the field their first year as well.

 

[admo]

Mighty fine. Hey some other fresh topic ideas besides "Complex Offense":

Keller/Ganz - who's better?

Should Cosgrove stay or go?

Freshmen playing time - more or less?

Callahan vs Solich?

If we had Pollini?

Grixby.

 

[skersOVRsc]

successful programs don't let the really good kids (freshman, USC is one team that comes to mind) sit around and wait. THEY PLAY THEM!

I believe the stat from last year was that USC STARTED 17 freshman!

If cally's system prevents that due to its complexity, then yes, there is a price to be paid for the system, keeping the best guys off the field.

and there are many other coaches who get top talent freshman on the field their first year as well.

If I remember correctly NU had 12 last year and 7 so far this year............whats your point. Who gives a f#*k how many freshmen you get on the field, its not a race. If anything that looks bad if you have that many Freshmen starting, why do the new guys have that much more talent than the guys you have been training for the last 3 years? Sure there are gonna be the Petersons and Bush's, but they are the exception, not the rule. Show me the dominant player on the NU roster that has been left on the bench because of the playbook............Ganz? Anyone else?..........no there's not.

 

[Hunter94]

you completely missed my point. the excuse for not playing talented freshmen in the past has been the complex nature of our playbook.

year in and year out since cally has been here, except recently, which is a nice trend, freshman get very little playing time, compared to a lot of other programs out there.

why the hell would we leave a talented freshman on the bench and let a guy with marginal skills, who knew the system, get all the reps? how many times have we heard the rant, "i want the most talented kid on the field"? my point is, with cally's system, this will not happen as often as it might in someone else's system, which is not as complex, period.

the reason USC is so successful is the nature of their program which allows freshmen to play more often, thus they get some of the absolute best players, knowing they will have a great chance to start as a freshmen and Pete Carroll recruits with that message in hand.

there is nothing inherently wrong with callys system, it just doesn't give a lot of the young kids coming in a chance to get involved early, that's all. just the way it works here, which i think is highly overrated.

 

[DaveH]

Considering simply how deep USC is, I can't believe they play a bunch of freshman....