Is the Ohio State situation worse than NU in 2007?

[Hujan]

Alleged Infraction: After a four-year investigation (the longest in NCAA history) a single player was found to have received a single vehicle of approximately $20,000 value. That same player's family was permitted to live rent-free in a modest San Diego home for a year, for an approximate value of $54,000. The benefits were paid by agents who were intending to seduce that player into leaving USC before graduation in order to declare for the NFL draft. The school was alleged to have a compliance program that was "insufficient" and therefore "should have known" about the aforementioned the player's receipt of extra benefits.

Ohio State

Alleged Infraction: With no formal NCAA investigation, at least two dozen players over a span of several years are implicated in a scheme in which they received numerous benefits, including multiple cars, jewelry, and tattoos. The players reportedly received the benefits not in exchange for their prospective NFL carriers, but as a result of their status as college athletes. The benefits were also indirectly conferred by the school insofar as the players sold valuable items that had been supplied to them by the school. Most importantly, the head football coach knew about the infractions for a significant period of time, yet failed to disclose the same to school officials or the NCAA, and in fact lied to both regarding how long he possessed this information.

USC - $20K vehicle plus $54K rent vs OSU - free tatoos (very minor value) and lying to the NCAA. The cases are not similar. There were serious dollars involved at USC. OSU is more comparable to AJ Green selling his jersey and Dez Bryant lying to the NCAA except in OSU's case it was the head coach.

The whole car thing at OSU is yet to be settled and there are conflicting reports on what is true.

Sure, if all that is ever found is the tattoos, then I agree that it may not compare to the USC case. But remember that USC was investigated for FOUR YEARS, and Reggie Bush was the ONLY athlete who was found to have received any improper benefits. From everything you've seen and heard, what do you think four years of investigating would turn up at Ohio State?

If it is as big as being reported (and Pryor's decision to leave Ohio State suggests it may be) then I can't see how anyone can deny it is much worse than the USC case.

 

[Hujan]

I have to agree with Hujan, there is nothing even remotely close to what SC did, not to mention SC fought them every step of the way, tried to cover up with coaches not telling the truth after the infractions were discussed with investigators. Tressel told one lie, he did not know of any wrong doings. That is about it as I see it.

Tressel falling on his sword will lessen the sanctions is my guess. And again I think it was about protecting his players, who did stupid things. Getting a tatoo, stealing a house for a year hardly compares. Not to mention Lienarts little deal with daddy paying for a upscale apartment and other players living in it.

The horse is out of the barn, close the door but no reason to slam it.

We have a lot of kids sporting fancy tats all over their bodies, supposedly starving on scholarship money but can afford ten thousdand dollar full sleves, not likely. Those living in glass houses should dress in the basement, and not answer when the NCAA comes calling.

I think you may have misinterpreted what I was saying. I was saying that what appears to have happened at Ohio State is far worse. For the record, USC cooperated with the investigation, they simply did not self-impose sanctions because many felt that they had done nothing wrong, insofar as there was no proof that anyone at USC knew what was going on with Bush. And the fact that no one knew makes some sense since Bush was not driving a new car every month; he was given a Chevy Impala that cost $23,000. Not exactly the type of car to raise eyebrows. And obviously no one at USC could expect to notice that Bush's family was living rent free in their San Diego home.

Now, to be fair, the NCAA accused Todd McNair, USC's running back's coach, of being untruthful. But that was simply because he denied knowing that Bush was receiving benefits, and the NCAA---based on the thinnest of evidence---felt otherwise. (Or, more precisely, felt that McNair possessed information that "should have" put him on notice that Bush was receiving benefits.) This is different from Jim Tressell admitting that he mislead investigators and compliance officials.

To me, you've got a single player and no true coverup vs. multiple players and the head coach admitting he lied to investigators. Bottom line is that if the USC case is any indication, Ohio State is likely in for some seismic sanctions.

 

[redblooded]

Actually USC had Mayo too. So it was 2 star players, 2 sports.

 

[Hujan]

Actually USC had Mayo too. So it was 2 star players, 2 sports.

We're talking football here. The whole bball team could have been on the take and it wouldn't have mattered to the football team. USC self-imposed scathing sanctions on the bball program including a post-season ban and loss of scholarships, which the NCAA mostly accepted.

 

[IlliniHusker]

Assuming the rumors all turn out to be true and the NCAA finds the truth, I have to ask myself the following. Since multiple players are involved at tOSU for multiple years, how come only Tressel admitted he hid the abuse and resigned? How many other coaches / admin people within the Buckeye organization knew and did nothing and haven't yet been punished? I've read some of the Buckeye chat boards and they want the Athletic Director Gene Smith fired (some want the university President fired!).

I do believe that the fan base is strong & will insist the tOSU will eventually return to a national power, but it may take quite a few years.

 

[NUance]

Assuming the rumors all turn out to be true and the NCAA finds the truth, I have to ask myself the following. Since multiple players are involved at tOSU for multiple years, how come only Tressel admitted he hid the abuse and resigned? How many other coaches / admin people within the Buckeye organization knew and did nothing and haven't yet been punished? I've read some of the Buckeye chat boards and they want the Athletic Director Gene Smith fired (some want the university President fired!).

I do believe that the fan base is strong & will insist the tOSU will eventually return to a national power, but it may take quite a few years.

Good point. Other coaches—trainers and position coaches—would have been more likely than Tressel to see these things first hand. But I doubt if any get called to task. Tressel already fell on his sword. So the blame will attach to him.

 

[Enhance]

Assuming the rumors all turn out to be true and the NCAA finds the truth, I have to ask myself the following. Since multiple players are involved at tOSU for multiple years, how come only Tressel admitted he hid the abuse and resigned? How many other coaches / admin people within the Buckeye organization knew and did nothing and haven't yet been punished? I've read some of the Buckeye chat boards and they want the Athletic Director Gene Smith fired (some want the university President fired!).

I do believe that the fan base is strong & will insist the tOSU will eventually return to a national power, but it may take quite a few years.

I agree with that. It seems that Tressel can't be the only one responsible for knowing something and not saying anything about it.

I don't think the Buckeyes will fall of the face of the earth, but they should become accustomed to the idea that eight to nine win season and no BCS trips probably lies in the future for at least the next four years, especially once they're in the middle/recovering from sanctions.

 

[The Dude]

From what I've heard and read it's mostly the "Tressel is a saint and is only the victim of a witch hunt" crowd that wants the AD and President fired.

 

[jaws]

From what I've heard and read it's mostly the "Tressel is a saint and is only the victim of a witch hunt" crowd that wants the AD and President fired.

I don't think you will find many OSU fans that think Tressel shouldn't have been fired. Sure, there are a segment of the population that might think that Tressel is somewhat innocent but most fans want to put this situation behind them. Most want OSU to clean house from the top down. I don't think you will find anyone happy about the rumors and allegations. If the NCAA comes down hard on the football program, so be it. You can't do anything about the past but learn from it.

 

[Enhance]

From what I've heard and read it's mostly the "Tressel is a saint and is only the victim of a witch hunt" crowd that wants the AD and President fired.

I don't think you will find many OSU fans that think Tressel shouldn't have been fired. Sure, there are a segment of the population that might think that Tressel is somewhat innocent but most fans want to put this situation behind them. Most want OSU to clean house from the top down. I don't think you will find anyone happy about the rumors and allegations. If the NCAA comes down hard on the football program, so be it. You can't do anything about the past but learn from it.

The fans are the ones who really get hurt in these situations. We all pay money to see these games and support the team, many fans provide donations, etc., and then something like this happens. Even though I'm indifferent to Ohio State, I do feel bad for the fans in a way.

That said, I'm finding it slightly humorous that schools (like Michigan) are having such a good time with this. It could be only a matter of time before some rock gets overturned in their own backyard and something bad starts spilling out to the NCAA.

 

[NUance]

From what I've heard and read it's mostly the "Tressel is a saint and is only the victim of a witch hunt" crowd that wants the AD and President fired.

I don't think you will find many OSU fans that think Tressel shouldn't have been fired. Sure, there are a segment of the population that might think that Tressel is somewhat innocent but most fans want to put this situation behind them. Most want OSU to clean house from the top down. I don't think you will find anyone happy about the rumors and allegations. If the NCAA comes down hard on the football program, so be it. You can't do anything about the past but learn from it.

The fans are the ones who really get hurt in these situations. We all pay money to see these games and support the team, many fans provide donations, etc., and then something like this happens. Even though I'm indifferent to Ohio State, I do feel bad for the fans in a way.

That said, I'm finding it slightly humorous that schools (like Michigan) are having such a good time with this. It could be only a matter of time before some rock gets overturned in their own backyard and something bad starts spilling out to the NCAA.

I was thinking about this--who gains and who loses, and by how much. Basically, a lot of people lose, and the gains are very small.

Fans Lose: Their team's name gets dragged through the mud. And it'll probably cost them a couple of wins per year.

Team Loses: See above. Lose a bunch of schollies, a coach, could have wins vacated. Probably cost millions in revenue too. A huge setback for the program.

Coach Loses: Lost his job. His good reputation is trash now.

Boosters Lose: These guys are pariahs. I would NOT want to be the owner of the tat parlor/car dealership who started this whole thing. I'm sure their business will suffer.

Players Gain/lose: Gained a few tats, use of a car for a while, a little pocket money. But lost college fb career (some), their names are tainted, careers stunted, have sit out games.

 

[IlliniHusker]

Nuance is right - the punishment extents beyond the guilty and affects many people who were innocent. I especially feel bad for the players who didn't cheat on the rules and the ordinary fans who will endure a poor teams for years.

Coaches - in football its true that they are usually penalized beyond a loss of job at a school; it carries over to their career (ex - Gary Barnett). Sometime a coach escapes by going to another school (Lane Kiffin) or going to the pros (Pete Carroll). In basketball the coaches seem to get away with murder! It seems that a lot of crooked coaches jump from one college to another.

 

[skersfan]

Last I heard innocent till proven guilty.

Listened to Pryors lawyer yesterday. States all this happened after his Freshman year, selling the pants and such. Never sold equipment owned by the Univeristy. Can prove all cars were owned by or provided as a true loaner vehicle from the dealership. Most of us have had them. States he never sold his name to anyone on memorphila. The individual accused of selling such, denies and can prove it is not true.

Coach Tressel has lost his good name on a witch hunt. My guess is we have the exact same things going on here, and pretty much everywhere else. Trying to protect his kids got him in trouble. Wrong no question, but no where near what he and the universtiy are going through.

Why is it people want to believe the worst in everything and everyone.

The ones that will suffer for this, are the kids that were recruited this year, that had absolutely nothing to do with the thing. It is an unjust system that needs to be changed. Fine the University heavily, fine the coach, and get the NFL to follow suit as college football is nothing but a farm system for the NFL. The fans have no control over what goes on, nor do the kids on the team or the ones being recuited.

Punish the ones responsible for the actions, and try to compare apples to apples. Bush did wrong and it was proven he did. SC tried to cover it up, delayed information, denied every step of the way. Ohio State openly admitted/informed the NCAA of the infractions, notified that their head coach lied, has never hid anything to my knowledge.

re

Everything about the NCAA is geared to make money for the fat cats, the kids that do the work, bring the fans to the stadium, really only get squat in the comparisson.

 

[Hujan]

Last I heard innocent till proven guilty.

Listened to Pryors lawyer yesterday. States all this happened after his Freshman year, selling the pants and such. Never sold equipment owned by the Univeristy. Can prove all cars were owned by or provided as a true loaner vehicle from the dealership. Most of us have had them. States he never sold his name to anyone on memorphila. The individual accused of selling such, denies and can prove it is not true.

Coach Tressel has lost his good name on a witch hunt. My guess is we have the exact same things going on here, and pretty much everywhere else. Trying to protect his kids got him in trouble. Wrong no question, but no where near what he and the universtiy are going through.

Why is it people want to believe the worst in everything and everyone.

The ones that will suffer for this, are the kids that were recruited this year, that had absolutely nothing to do with the thing. It is an unjust system that needs to be changed. Fine the University heavily, fine the coach, and get the NFL to follow suit as college football is nothing but a farm system for the NFL. The fans have no control over what goes on, nor do the kids on the team or the ones being recuited.

Punish the ones responsible for the actions, and try to compare apples to apples. Bush did wrong and it was proven he did. SC tried to cover it up, delayed information, denied every step of the way. Ohio State openly admitted/informed the NCAA of the infractions, notified that their head coach lied, has never hid anything to my knowledge.

re

Everything about the NCAA is geared to make money for the fat cats, the kids that do the work, bring the fans to the stadium, really only get squat in the comparisson.

There is some misinformation there. There are no allegations, let alone proof, that USC tried to cover anything up. They denied that they knew Bush was getting benefits. How in God's name are they supposed to know that Bush's $23,000 car was paid for by an agent? Or that Bush's parents are living rent free in their San Diego home?

It's not fair for USC to deny that they didn't know, then accuse them of "covering things up." A denial is a denial, nothing more.

And how in God's name can you credit Tressel for admitting he lied? The fact is he lied. Bottom line, what you have is:

USC saying from the get go that they didn't know Bush was getting benefits and sticking to that story. Notably, the NCAA never found evidence to actually contradict this.

Ohio State saying they didn't know, then admitting they knew all along after e-mails surface proving that Tressel was lying.

And somehow you think the USC situation is worse? Can't understand that.

 

[Enhance]

Last I heard innocent till proven guilty.

Listened to Pryors lawyer yesterday. States all this happened after his Freshman year, selling the pants and such. Never sold equipment owned by the Univeristy. Can prove all cars were owned by or provided as a true loaner vehicle from the dealership. Most of us have had them. States he never sold his name to anyone on memorphila. The individual accused of selling such, denies and can prove it is not true.

Coach Tressel has lost his good name on a witch hunt. My guess is we have the exact same things going on here, and pretty much everywhere else. Trying to protect his kids got him in trouble. Wrong no question, but no where near what he and the universtiy are going through.

Why is it people want to believe the worst in everything and everyone.

The ones that will suffer for this, are the kids that were recruited this year, that had absolutely nothing to do with the thing. It is an unjust system that needs to be changed. Fine the University heavily, fine the coach, and get the NFL to follow suit as college football is nothing but a farm system for the NFL. The fans have no control over what goes on, nor do the kids on the team or the ones being recuited.

Punish the ones responsible for the actions, and try to compare apples to apples. Bush did wrong and it was proven he did. SC tried to cover it up, delayed information, denied every step of the way. Ohio State openly admitted/informed the NCAA of the infractions, notified that their head coach lied, has never hid anything to my knowledge.

re

Everything about the NCAA is geared to make money for the fat cats, the kids that do the work, bring the fans to the stadium, really only get squat in the comparisson.

There is some misinformation there. There are no allegations, let alone proof, that USC tried to cover anything up. They denied that they knew Bush was getting benefits. How in God's name are they supposed to know that Bush's $23,000 car was paid for by an agent? Or that Bush's parents are living rent free in their San Diego home?

It's not fair for USC to deny that they didn't know, then accuse them of "covering things up." A denial is a denial, nothing more.

And how in God's name can you credit Tressel for admitting he lied? The fact is he lied. Bottom line, what you have is:

USC saying from the get go that they didn't know Bush was getting benefits and sticking to that story. Notably, the NCAA never found evidence to actually contradict this.

Ohio State saying they didn't know, then admitting they knew all along after e-mails surface proving that Tressel was lying.

And somehow you think the USC situation is worse? Can't understand that.

Took the words right out of my mouth. +1