Is the Ohio State situation worse than NU in 2007?

[mnhusker]

From what I've heard and read it's mostly the "Tressel is a saint and is only the victim of a witch hunt" crowd that wants the AD and President fired.

I don't think you will find many OSU fans that think Tressel shouldn't have been fired. Sure, there are a segment of the population that might think that Tressel is somewhat innocent but most fans want to put this situation behind them. Most want OSU to clean house from the top down. I don't think you will find anyone happy about the rumors and allegations. If the NCAA comes down hard on the football program, so be it. You can't do anything about the past but learn from it.

The fans are the ones who really get hurt in these situations. We all pay money to see these games and support the team, many fans provide donations, etc., and then something like this happens. Even though I'm indifferent to Ohio State, I do feel bad for the fans in a way.

That said, I'm finding it slightly humorous that schools (like Michigan) are having such a good time with this. It could be only a matter of time before some rock gets overturned in their own backyard and something bad starts spilling out to the NCAA.

I was thinking about this--who gains and who loses, and by how much. Basically, a lot of people lose, and the gains are very small.

Fans Lose: Their team's name gets dragged through the mud. And it'll probably cost them a couple of wins per year.

Team Loses: See above. Lose a bunch of schollies, a coach, could have wins vacated. Probably cost millions in revenue too. A huge setback for the program.

Coach Loses: Lost his job. His good reputation is trash now.

Boosters Lose: These guys are pariahs. I would NOT want to be the owner of the tat parlor/car dealership who started this whole thing. I'm sure their business will suffer.

Players Gain/lose: Gained a few tats, use of a car for a while, a little pocket money. But lost college fb career (some), their names are tainted, careers stunted, have sit out games.

I think we should add that every team that tries to have a clean program gains in situations when the NCAA corrects things as petty as they seem. It may seem like no big deal but what if Pryor and others came to OSU becasue they found out about sweet deals on cars and easy money signing autographs when they visited the college as high school students. What if some of these talented players came because OSU had better perks than Penn State or Michigan.

 

[skersfan]

I have not read the results, but every single talking head states they should have gotten worse, one coach was fired for lying, concealing evidence supposedly. He was the scapegoat for the SC deal, Pete Carrol saying he was never going to leave SC for any reason, leaves as the investigation gains momentum. Lienart again having an apartment where friends on the team lived, IE dad helped recruiting actions. I live out here and here a lot of stuff about it. Pete Carrol is not welcome at SC any longer, Reggie Bush is banned from coming on campus. This was a huge deal and came very close to getting the death pentalty. That program new about it period. If the NCAA could have proved it went above the position coach they would have. Lucky I think.

Tressel admitted to Ohio State that he lied, Ohio State notified the NCAA of the lies. Ohio state has continously reported the violations and I have heard they report more minor infractions than any other major program. Being up front with the NCAA is going to help. It is a mountain out of mole hill.

My guess is they will lose the championship game this year, and the bowl for this year. A couple of scholarships lost and that will be it. They have corrected the problems, taking the proving out of the mix for the NCAA.

I do not know if people want them to be guilty of more than they are because of hate or dislike(IE Michigan fan).

Really there is no proof of the selling the pants, just an email stating so. Tressel not following up on it or deciding it was not that big of deal and decided to do nothing about it. Or felt that he and the kids, could be in danger from the individual responsible for the dealings, he actually stated that in the early days of this.

I am giving no credit for Coach Tressels lying, I am stating the University notified the NCAA that he had.

I have not read the emails from Tressel, nor any that Smith or Ghee seent. I doubt I ever will. The worst part of this whole thing is the cover up and the actions of Coach Tressel in trying to do so. He is gone, Smith may follow, Pryor is gone. The culprits at the root of the evil have been punished. Where as in the SC deal, no one that actually did something wrong, other than a position coach suffered the pentalties. The school is left to suffer for what a couple of idiots did. I disagree with what happened to SC, but I think they brought this on themselves.

I want to see the people responsible for the actions get the pentalties. Not just walk away.

But again I see no real reason why a individual that is given something can not sell that articlc. Common sense says you should be able to. But the NCAA sees it as a heinous crime.

My guess that when the shoe is on the other foot, we will see things differently. We have been out of the winning mode for a few years, trust me, if and when we start to dominate college football, they will be here sniffing in garbage cans.\

Facts, we have a few players that sold a 40.00 gold pants pin. A coach that lied about it. A university that has reported the infractions and does so on a regular basis.

We have a player that recieved thousands of dollars worth of benefits, a coach that denied, a coach fired for covering it up, and a universtiy that DENIED it. Yet the NCAA was able to find a coach that they said knew all about it. He still denies it. Pete Carrol leaves. Two weeks prior stating he would never leave SC. Local media stating when he left that the pentalties were going to be harsh, and that him leaving confirmed it...

It amazes me that Ohio State can find out what Pryor was doing as a freshman, but SC had no idea what the top player in the country was doing. Knowing full well he would be approached at every opportunity.

I guess we will know possibly during the season, how the shoes fall. I hope it is a fair deal, but it would be a first for the NCAA.

 

[Enhance]

skersfan, are you really suggesting that everything going on with OSU, Tressel and Pryor is just smoke in the wind? Because there is no proof that he sold a pair of pants means that he also isn't responsible for the autographs/memorabilia he gave out for money and the tattoos/cars he allegedly received? The NCAA isn't going to give sanctions unless there is proof of those transactions, and at this point we have to assume they have it.

The reason the players get in trouble for selling their equipment is because it was given to them by the university, something the university views as their property until the player leaves the school. Whether you agree with it or not, those are the current rules and they must be followed. And until a rule is changed, it HAS to be followed.

 

[REDSTEEL]

I have not read the results, but every single talking head states they should have gotten worse, one coach was fired for lying, concealing evidence supposedly. He was the scapegoat for the SC deal, Pete Carrol saying he was never going to leave SC for any reason, leaves as the investigation gains momentum. Lienart again having an apartment where friends on the team lived, IE dad helped recruiting actions. I live out here and here a lot of stuff about it. Pete Carrol is not welcome at SC any longer, Reggie Bush is banned from coming on campus. This was a huge deal and came very close to getting the death pentalty. That program new about it period. If the NCAA could have proved it went above the position coach they would have. Lucky I think.

Tressel admitted to Ohio State that he lied, Ohio State notified the NCAA of the lies. Ohio state has continously reported the violations and I have heard they report more minor infractions than any other major program. Being up front with the NCAA is going to help. It is a mountain out of mole hill.

My guess is they will lose the championship game this year, and the bowl for this year. A couple of scholarships lost and that will be it. They have corrected the problems, taking the proving out of the mix for the NCAA.

I do not know if people want them to be guilty of more than they are because of hate or dislike(IE Michigan fan).

Really there is no proof of the selling the pants, just an email stating so. Tressel not following up on it or deciding it was not that big of deal and decided to do nothing about it. Or felt that he and the kids, could be in danger from the individual responsible for the dealings, he actually stated that in the early days of this.

I am giving no credit for Coach Tressels lying, I am stating the University notified the NCAA that he had.

I have not read the emails from Tressel, nor any that Smith or Ghee seent. I doubt I ever will. The worst part of this whole thing is the cover up and the actions of Coach Tressel in trying to do so. He is gone, Smith may follow, Pryor is gone. The culprits at the root of the evil have been punished. Where as in the SC deal, no one that actually did something wrong, other than a position coach suffered the pentalties. The school is left to suffer for what a couple of idiots did. I disagree with what happened to SC, but I think they brought this on themselves.

I want to see the people responsible for the actions get the pentalties. Not just walk away.

But again I see no real reason why a individual that is given something can not sell that articlc. Common sense says you should be able to. But the NCAA sees it as a heinous crime.

My guess that when the shoe is on the other foot, we will see things differently. We have been out of the winning mode for a few years, trust me, if and when we start to dominate college football, they will be here sniffing in garbage cans.\

Facts, we have a few players that sold a 40.00 gold pants pin. A coach that lied about it. A university that has reported the infractions and does so on a regular basis.

We have a player that recieved thousands of dollars worth of benefits, a coach that denied, a coach fired for covering it up, and a universtiy that DENIED it. Yet the NCAA was able to find a coach that they said knew all about it. He still denies it. Pete Carrol leaves. Two weeks prior stating he would never leave SC. Local media stating when he left that the pentalties were going to be harsh, and that him leaving confirmed it...

It amazes me that Ohio State can find out what Pryor was doing as a freshman, but SC had no idea what the top player in the country was doing. Knowing full well he would be approached at every opportunity.

I guess we will know possibly during the season, how the shoes fall. I hope it is a fair deal, but it would be a first for the NCAA.

Now there's reports that Tressel has received e mails March 27 2007 about this guy Talbott who was selling on e bay signed stuff from underclassmen which is before Pryor even came to Ohio State. Then he was warned again in 2009.

http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/otl/news/story?id=6652125

If any of this turns out to be true, I would expect the same kind of penalty USC received or worse.

 

[skersfan]

What I am saying is that none of this is proven.

Pryors lawyer states all the cars are legal and it will be proven no problem.

Pryors lawyer states all merchandise was after the freshman year and early sophomore year. A total of four or five items. The gold pants pins were not given by the university, but by a club of the university as I understand it.

Tressel did wrong by not notifying/admitting/informing the NCAA of the 5 players selling their stuff. To me it is a very little deal, nothing compared to the SC deal or the Auburn/Mississippi State deal.

I think because they came forward with it (meaning Ohio State) and took action the NCAA will go very light on them. I certainly could be wrong, but if it is treated fairly, I think the sanctions will be light, but who knows.

I tend to give the benefit of the doubt. I believe you are innocent until proven guilty of wrong doing. I think in this case there is more mistake than evil and I will hold judgement until proven to be sinister acts.

I think a good man made a mistake. A couple of kids sold stuff they thought was theirs.

As to the merchandise being sold, the individual denies it completely. And I do not think any of this falls under the criminal code, so I think it will be impossible to prove one way or another.

As far as the NCAA will look at it is. The head of the snake is gone. The player is gone, and most likely the athletic director will be gone. Who else would be responsible?

I just do not think it is as bad as some think. Mountain out of a mole hill.

 

[Nebula]

Actually USC had Mayo too. So it was 2 star players, 2 sports.

We're talking football here. The whole bball team could have been on the take and it wouldn't have mattered to the football team. USC self-imposed scathing sanctions on the bball program including a post-season ban and loss of scholarships, which the NCAA mostly accepted.

I think the Mayo situation played heavily into the arrival at the dreaded LOIC label of doom that USC got hammered with. The primary focus was with the Heisman winning Bush, but I do believe that the fact that the Trojans were sporting two high profile stars in two separate sports receiving improper benefits made the situation worse for USC than it would have been if all the impropriety had been isolated to Bush.

Either way, and hinging on how things play out with further investigations at OSU, it sounds like the potential exists for the Buckeyes to be looking at equal if not even greater sanctions than USC received in the near future. If that happens I do believe the situation will be worse for our conference mates than it was for us in '07. Simply because of the depth setbacks and temporary recruiting hindrances in terms of exposure OSU will be looking at. If NCAA investigations reveal serious infractions, that is.

 

[skersfan]

I agree if they prove cargate actually happened and the signed stuff was actually paid for then, their sanctions will be as bad and possibly worse, but currently none of that has been proven.

Just like this morning, on serius radio, I think the guys name is Jeff Wicert or close. He continously ran on about the new coach at West Virginia being removed from a CASINO at 330 am being drunk and disruptive, yet there are no police reports regarding it, he then went on to state the coach was legally drunk. Now if you do not have a police report how can you make the statement that he was legally drunk. This crap goes on all over. The media makes the facts by repeating them over and over.

I have no doubt the coach was having problems, but nothing like what this jerk is saying. Enough fans of opposing teams hear it, it is true it seems.

I tend to believe nothing but facts.

I think a lot of this stuff is the media manipulating the information to make it look or sound worse. Blood in the water.

I have very little respect for the media, but it seems on this board if it is not directed at Nebraska it is spot on at all times, but when they say things about our program they are never right.

I feel I know that Coach Tressel lied to the NCAA, some kids made mistakes as freshman and sophomores. Pryor and Tressel are gone, beyond that I have no real knowledge of facts. Until proven, I will trust that the University is doing everything correct. Just like I would do if this was going on with Nebraska.

 

[Hujan]

I have not read the results, but every single talking head states they should have gotten worse, one coach was fired for lying, concealing evidence supposedly. He was the scapegoat for the SC deal, Pete Carrol saying he was never going to leave SC for any reason, leaves as the investigation gains momentum. Lienart again having an apartment where friends on the team lived, IE dad helped recruiting actions. I live out here and here a lot of stuff about it. Pete Carrol is not welcome at SC any longer, Reggie Bush is banned from coming on campus. This was a huge deal and came very close to getting the death pentalty. That program new about it period. If the NCAA could have proved it went above the position coach they would have. Lucky I think.

You make some decent points, but I just want to touch on a couple things.

First, no one was fired for lying. McNair was not fired for lying. Part of the NCAA's sanctions were that university had to disassociate from the wrongdoers, including McNair. The new administration did not renew McNair's contact and brought in Kennedy Pola as the new RB coach.

There are no allegations that McNair (or anyone else) concealed evidence. The NCAA's entire case was that (1) McNair had a short phone conversation with the agents, and (2) was apparently at a birthday party for Marshall Faulk in San Diego, also attended by Reggie and the agents. Regarding the phone call, McNair stated that he had agreed to help Reggie vet prospective agents when Reggie announced his attention to go pro, and had received literally hundreds of calls from prospective agents, of which Michaels was one. None of that is improper and happens on a routine basis at every school. A problem only arises when the agent pays the player. McNair denies he knew that any agent was paying Bush. Notably, he is suing the NCAA over their findings, which should give you a sense of how weak the NCAA's case against McNair was.

Also, I have to touch on the Leinart deal. What happened was Matt and Dwayne Jarrett (his favorite receiver) were roommates. They moved out of a place near USC because they were concerned about over-the-top attention from fans. Matt's dad got the boys a lease at an apartment downtown and charged both boys $650 a month in rent. Matt's dad paid the rest. The NCAA found this to be a violation of the "extra benefit" rule and Dwayne was asked to pay the difference back, which he did. He was then reinstated. Basically you have a player's dad covering the difference in rent for his son and his son's roommate.

If you are going to count that as an example of a program out of control, I don't know what to say. To me, it gets to the heart of the problem with the NCAA that another poster touched on, where a roommate might violate an NCAA rule by letting his friend borrow his car. I mean, suppose a Nebraska player lives off campus with a regular student. Suppose also that the Nebraska player had some car trouble and didn't have the money to fix his car. If his roommate gave him the cash to fix his car, that would likely be an NCAA violation.

At bottom, the USC situation amounted to a lack of attention. The program had gotten a little to loose and wasn't paying as much attention as it should have. But there is no evidence that anyone from the school engaged in any intentional or knowing misconduct.

In law and in life, we punish intentional or knowing acts more than negligent ones. If I happen to not be paying attention while driving and end up killing someone, it is not as severe a punishment as if I ran someone down on purpose. But despite being negligent or grossly negligent in the management of the football team, USC ended up getting hit with the most severe sanctions since the SMU death penalty.

Ohio State has the added dimension of a coach making unequivocal lies, which he did not cop to until he was caught. It's hard to believe they'll get off any lighter than USC did. And, make no mistake, USC will be feeling the effects of these sanctions for the next decade.

Obviously I'm biased, but if I were a coach, I would much rather have come to Nebraska in 2007 than go to Ohio State now. If a few things had broken our way, we could have been playing in a BCS bowl in 2009, in just Bo's second season at the helm. Assuming at least USC-type sanctions, I wouldn't expect Ohio State to make a BCS bowl for the next four or five years.