Knoxville Husker

I think the only positive most of us saw with BP was it was anyone other than BC. I think BP was a rather "blah" hire at the time for the majority of our fanbase, I know I was not real excited.

Your point is well taken, but a strong QB almost always makes the first guy miss, and frequently eludes 2-3 rushers to turn a bad play into something positive. Our guy simply has no such ability, but a good defense will get that type of pressure numerous time over the course of a game. You can't just curl up into a ball in those situations. The case in point is look at our defense. We got pretty good pressure and coverage frequently, but we missed at least three tackles when Hundley (who is not all that quick) converted that long 3rd down scramble. We stop that, and its more than likely 21-3 at halftime. Hundley is only a second year starter, but he has many times more pocket poise and elusiveness than TM. This is an innate ability which I believe you either have or you don't. Obviously if it came with experience we'd be having a much different post-UCLA conversation.

That's bunk. The defense is very green but we have some nice looking young players on the DL in particular. They definitely showed some flashes of what they can be and really had UCLA on their heels early in the game. Hundley was feeling the pressure and we were stuffing the run fairly well too. Our LB rotation has me puzzled, we need to find the best 3-4 guys that are ready to play now. Banderas I think will be good but is not ready to play right now it appears to me. It seemed to me we have 2-3 guys with more speed and quicker reaction times that aren't playing as much. What I saw was a veteran offense that failed to answer the bell in the second half. A couple of ball control drives with points at the end REALLY would have helped out the young D and possibly been enough to eke out the win. Instead our offense went into a complete shell and and it was just sickening to watch. The defense followed suit and appeared shell shocked, but that was far more expected than what we saw from the offense. Through it all UCLA managed just over 500 yards, which is not a huge deal anymore in this age of video game style offenses and rules making it harder to defend (e.g. the "phantom" QB roughing calls, targeting, defenseless player, etc.). Had we managed a respectable showing on offense in the second half, both the yardage and the game are very even, instead we are outgained 300 to 500 yards. Do the math, a couple good ball control drives fixes that no problem.

Your QB is "simply another wheel of the train." The guy who touches the ball every play on offense (and quite carelessly at times) is no more important than any other position? I beg to differ there. QB play is easily the most important position, it sets the tone for the entire team's confidence level and it is impossible to play offense with QB play as shoddy as we saw for 2.5 quarters of the UCLA game, much less win. As far as my post count, I am sure I have thousands at the former huskerpedia now huskermax, but I saw no reason to stay there due to the excessive attempts to censor posters, and who pays to use and Internet message board?

The first sentence of your post makes no sense to me. So there is no amount of poor play that should get TM benched? Really?!? The second sentence is right on. Benching a running QB who is hurt and seems to be incapable of running the bread and butter zone option play that got him the job makes perfect sense. Here's to hoping these coaches can come up with a solution, but I sure as heck ain't holding my breath that happens this year!

I saw few if any threads when I started this geared towards calling for change at QB, and thank you for highlighting exactly why as that was the whole point of this thread. I just considered it a given that the coach is at fault here, since that is who decides to play. The point of this thread is no matter what a guy has done or how hard he has worked, if the result is woefully inadequate its time to try another approach. This thread is not about attacking Martinez as at all. The Elephant in the Room is simply the fact that we are almost afraid to even talk about the horrid QB play for fear of being accused of such an attack. Thus we as good classy fans were tip toeing around the issue, big time. All I care about is calling it how I see it and speculating on what could make it better which is every fan's right. If NU is 0-12 I am still a fan, that's not going to change. I am sick to death for the last several years of seeing such butt ugly QB play, as any fan being honest would agree! Now I see some new Qb threads popping up, which I view as a good and healthy admission to finally make.

This is incorrect. The first option we had, Martinez made a very early pitch because a defender got in his face, and Abdullah got something like a nice six yard gain out of it. Brion ran the option very well, too, but it didn't get him anywhere. We've seen very little from Tommy so far. Haven't seen him throw. I'm very impressed with what we did see, but it is so, so early to be calling for his anointment. We're not calling for his annointment, but next year will be here soon enough and we all know any QB on the roster can probably get us 9 wins. This is as good a tmie as any to start figuring out what we have in Tommy, as he is expected to be "the guy" next year. If he fares poorly, that only strengthens the Qb competion with Stanton next year. And Stanton is not a viable option coming off that serious knee injury while being a true freshman. RK III is our emergency backup option should both TM and TA get hurt, just like Matt Turman years ago.

All that really mattered was the 3rd quarter. Martinez was 5/6 for 15 yards passing on our first drive. From there he went 1/6 for the rest of the quarter for 3 yards. He threw 5 straight incompletions over the course of our first 3 drives, and rushed 3 times for -5 yards. His inability to complete a single pass downfield and avoid catastrophic negative yardage plays doomed us. His numbers for the 4th quarter were 4/7 for 56 yards and 1 rush for -6 yards. That was where he hit Abdullah on a short pass that went for 40 yards, we had nothing going downfield all second half. So the final 2nd half tally is 10/19 for 74 yards. 4 rushed for -11 yards. Keep in mind this guy only plays because he was thought at one time to be of of the best running QBs in college football. We don't play him for his passing ability. Now that the running game has bottomed out, there is no to reason to stay married to him as the only QB worth playing when the game is still in doubt. Yet the game will almost always be in doubt with him at QB. Rather ironic, but to say Armstrong would just come in and be a turnover machine is silly. As long as Armstrong was capable of leading us to 3 and outs we'd be breaking even. On a couple of drives in the middle of the 3rd and 4th quarter when we could have made this respectable,TM went 1/6 for 1 yard passing and those were 3 and outs. We had three 3 and outs in the 2nd half, and the two in the 3rd quarter were back breakers.

Do you really think he is a running QB anymore? He is an atrocious running QB with a lot of speed. And now that seems to be gone as well. No reason for him to be under center any longer. Martinez only ever got the job because he was briefly the best running QB in college football, for a few games his freshman year. Now he is neither a good runner or game manager. -13 yards rushing. Time to move on. Beck is not calling 15-20 zone options a game because Tm can't run the play worth a damn anymore. I remember heading into the 2011 season bowl game against South Carolina, I had to decide whether to go see NU play while visiting sunny Florida in winter. Because of my complete lack of optimism that we'd any important game with TM at QB, I stayed home. Nothing has changed since then, in fact it only seems worse.

My recollection was TO forced Watson on Bo, and for two years we had the worst offense in the country. Now we have one of the worst defenses. TO clearly was wrong, but at least he got rid of BC. The morale is he doesn't know all and us fans were perfectly justified to dislike the Pelini hire. We've seen a very erratic team on both sides of the ball and a HC clearly learning on the job and not in his element. We don't have many good options, Frost is our best right now.

You hit the nail on the head. Nobody wants to bash a player and so we've just put up with this for four years now. That's why the thread title, most of us are just being too polite to say anything, for fear of being accused of bashing a kid who deserves better. I love Taylor Martinez for all he's given the program and am not the slightest bit angry at him or any NU player. I am just speaking honestly about what I see on the field and what could be done to correct it. TM has had a great career and will be noted as such, but I've seen enough of it and am ready for something different, as I believe the large majority of the fan base is but just chooses not to talk about it.

Hey man, the 1980s and 1990s called you to tell you that it's not the 1980s or the 1990s anymore. Sure the option may have worked back then, but it certainly doesn't work in today's game, which is all about the spread. And the biggest problem against UCLA was the QB? Not the offensive linemen? Not the running backs? Not the playcalling? But the QB? Whatever man. Enjoy Knoxville. Yeah TM was rock solid just like we expected and the strength of the team. Can't throw, can't run, but at least he can play one good quarter per game. Clearly we are not going to build our entire offense on old school option ball, like GA TECH has done quite well. I'd rather modernize and go with the Oregon style which I think resonates more with recruits this day also. That's what makes Frost a perfect hire to replace Bo, he could install that no problem at NU.

I have been around a long time as I alluded to watching Turner Gill first hand. Armstrong showed better timing and skill on the old school option in his short time on the field than TM in his entire career. Clearly that would give our run game a boost and the other team something else to worry about. Something legit that works, you fail to prepare for at your own risk, and you are hard pressed to address on the fly via halftime adjustments. Making teams prepare for both TM and a legit option threat QB makes far to much sense for Bo to figure out until at least game 10 or so this season, if we're lucky. So I don't advocate benching TM fully or all of the sudden, I think it starts with a timeshare. If TA plays lights out great, maybe he wins the job. We have nothing to lose either way. I don't think TM gives up, he's just not good enough plain and simple.

Through Martinez's Soph year we probably didn't have a better QB option. By the end of that year though, it was fairly obvious he didn't have "it", and I resigned myself to the fact he will never get us over the hump. That should have started to change the minute Tommy Armstrong Jr. stepped onto campus. Instead Bo stupidly locked in with TM, while TA took a shirt when he could have at a minimum gotten some valuable game experience. Now he has none, and we probably won't play him for that reason as it may give Bo his best chance to win the usual 9 games which seems to mean job security. What TO figured out by the 80s was you get your most talented players on the field ASAP, especially young QBs that can run the option. That probably saved his job in 1981 when he turned to Turner Gill after a 1-2 start to the season. Gill had a rough first game, but turned in some stellar performances in sparking the team to run through the Big 8 a perfect 7-0. Unfortunately a weird nerve injury knocked Gill out of the last couple games including the Orange Bowl, which could have turned a 7-point loss to Clemson into a win that would have made NU the first team ever to win a national title with two losses. Gill was dominant by the time his final season rolled around in 83, but as we know TO did not quite have the defensive side of equation figured out well enough to win a title. TO kept with it though, and the culmination was with Tommy Frazier from 1992-95, the greatest run ever by a starting NU QB. Yes Bo has also failed us on the defensive side of the ball. I can't fault those that want to focus blame there since that's why we hired them. However, those are about the only type of threads and comments I've seen. By far the biggest problem I saw on the field against UCLA was at QB, and we have seen it time and time again. That's also on Bo. Even he stated we could have been up by more at halftime, largely on the strength of what the defense did. Then, when the defense needed them most, the offense disappeared and we got rolled as a result as Mora knew just how to attack us. As far as TM in the NFL, thanks for that one I needed a good ROFLMAO at this point.

Our offense sucks. You nailed it, QB play is horrid and I'm counting the days at this point for change there. -13 yards rushing at the QB position, are you kidding me!?! We are playing a QB that doesn't throw well because we thought he was a dual threat. We thought he was going to be the best running QB in school history. That's moronic to cling to at this stage.

It's Tommy Armstrong Jr.

Finally, thank you! QB play is our biggest problem right now. You simply have to be able to improvise and make something out of nothing from that position. Our QB just panics and goes into a shell. If he doesn't drop the ball in the process or fling it wildly while falling, its a ten yard loss and the drive is OVER. And we've seen this over, and over, and over. We have some of the best skill position talent we've ever had, aside from QB. We're just trying to be nice about it. This is a message board and I'm calling it like I see it, the QB play stinks. It's time for change there, touchdown Tommy to the rescue!

We start a 4th year senior QB because as a freshman he ran for a few long TD and we got all giddy. In 2010 the guy is unreal. Comes out of nowhere and wins the starting QB job. We all see why, he's unreal on the read option, running for long TD after long TD. He's a phenom. Who cares if he's an erratic passer? Fast forward to 2013. School record 33 TDs. The tease continues, we need to look further. It's boom or bust. The QB play is erratic. Far too many costly turnovers, fueling blowout losses. No pocket presence. Poor passing mechanics. Inability to move the offense consistently for more than a quarter or two a game. No ability to improvise when a play breaks down. Terrible lateral speed when scrambling. No poise in the pocket or out of it. Traditional option game is poor and read option heyday peaked 4 years ago. I'm not trying to attack the player, just point out what we all see on the field. A 4th year starting senior QB did not get it done for us. I don't understand why this poor QB play is getting a pass. QB play is everything, just look at aTm who just played the best team in the last couple decades to within a TD on the strength of a Heisman QB and little else. aTm is an eight win team at best without Johnny Football, yet with him they played might Bama almost even. Play Tommy Armstrong Jr. Alternate him with Martinez, We need to get ready for next year anyway. We are not winning any championships with the current QB, and we need to give defenses something else to worry about. Namely, a legitimate option football threat that helps us gut out tough yards and the long drives that we need. It will also make our run game far less predictable, opening up things for our RBs.

Frost is a no brainer for us as HC. Oregon offense has not missed a beat. I want to see it continue for a full season, but he implements that here and we're golden. We have done nothing consistently well under Bo for several years now. Demoting Bo to DC would be my preference, unless we could throw a ton of money to lure Frost as OC but that doesn't fix the defense. As a head coach, I think Bo is fairly clueless though and we could do no worse with Frost.

The defense played a solid first half, good enough to have been up even more than 21-10. The offense proceeded to stink for 2.5 quarters. We knew the defense was green and would need some help. We knew Mora would make better adjustments at halftime than Bo. What was not expected was the complete stinker that the offense threw up in the 2nd half, especially when even one good drive probably keeps us two TDs closer heading into the 4th. We all know that hiring Bo was a mistake, that has been apparent for a while. In hindsight we all should find this as no surprise. The biggest problem with this team right now aside from coaching is at the QB position. We have no pocket presence, no option game, and a weak passing game. Did I mention we rushed for -13 yards from the QB position. What did we complete, 6 of our last 17 passes. No, running the ball more was not the answer, we couldn't do that effectively either. It's been pretty obvious for a while we've seen the ceiling of our current QB strategy, and its not a conference championship or even a bowl win. Get the option QB in. It's time to stop fooling around and get serious about the future. I am fine with the senior QB playing, but we've got to mix it up. Unfortunately this is not something the coaching staff will pick up soon enough if at all. I guess it has to get uglier. I put this one more on the offense. We would not get out gained 300 yards to 500 if they did their job. The offense was supposed to be unstoppable like 83 and 95 NU, what a laugh. It starts and ends with QB play. We don't have it. Sadly it sits right there on our bench.