Jim Hammer

You aren't going to be swayed. You've said so earlier in this thread. The fact that you ignore evidence that refutes points you try to make proves that you are ignorant to what the protests are about and have no desire to learn. And like Nebfanatic said, ignorance is merely a lack of knowledge. There are many topics I am ignorant about. But I don't go on message boards to try and have a discussion about those topics. I made my first comment on page 3 because I hate anthem protests. I wasn't intending to get this into it. Simple as that. Nobody is forcing you to post in this thread. But when you do, you are taking part in a discussion. If you refuse to see the other side and refuse to learn about why they are protesting, you are going to get backlash.

You aren't going to be swayed. You've said so earlier in this thread. The fact that you ignore evidence that refutes points you try to make proves that you are ignorant to what the protests are about and have no desire to learn. And like Nebfanatic said, ignorance is merely a lack of knowledge. There are many topics I am ignorant about. But I don't go on message boards to try and have a discussion about those topics.

Big surprise.

It's hard to have a discussion with ignorant people who refuse to learn and ignore piles of evidence presented to them. We can only hope that they are the minority and the rest of us can move forward.

The reason for this huge disparity is the gun culture we have in the US. Cops facing criminals armed with guns don't have the luxury those in other countries that don't have nearly as many guns. But those other countries do a much better job of training their officers and have instituted policies that reduce the lethality of criminal interactions: http://www.mintpressnews.com/what-norway-is-getting-right-about-policing-that-american-cops-just-cant-figure-out/208413/ That is something we should emulate.

The reason I brought up guns is that it makes the cops job a lot harder to not kill someone if their own life is being threatened. If a criminal points a gun at a cop, the cop should shoot them. And not to wound, to kill. If someone pulls a knife, you have many more means to incapacitate them non-lethally. But we have a lot of killings where the cop's life isn't in danger, and that's why we have these protests. When a black person dies in this matter, it makes the news. White people die too, but it doesn't bend the needle as far as the media goes. Going by the numbers, the instances of blacks being killed isn't that much greater than those of white people. But studies have shown that over all, blacks to get worse treatment from the police than white people. So whether or not you agree with the way MRI and others protest, you have to admit there's a problem with law enforcement in this country.

I think you missed this article: http://www.cnn.com/2016/10/17/us/police-chiefs-group-minorities-apology/ When you're pressured by a growing majority, it's hard not to force an apology out of yourself. Or maybe he realized what was going on and felt the need to apologize. Not everyone finds it hard to admit when they are wrong. Mildly valid? Way to minimize all those dead people who were unjustly killed by the police.

One of the reasons we have so many police shootings is the police have to deal with so many armed criminals. But that's a gun control issue and I'm not going to derail this conversation by talking about the gun problem.

I +1'ed your post because I am sure that you will get a lot of hate for posting this. I 95% agree with what you are saying (The only thing I didn't agree with I struck out). Like I said in an earlier post, sure this is raising attention to the matter. Doesn't mean it's positive attention. Everything legislatively has been done, that's what MLK did. Changing society is impossible to force.law enforcement reform isn't impossible to force There isn't any law enforcement reforming to do! Of all of the high profile cop shootings, maybe one or two have been racist at most, and the rest were more than likely with reason and the guy he shot happened to be black. And for many of the ones that are presumed to be racist, people love to assume the cop is automatically the bad guy, without listening to both sides.Well considering there have been 2000+ people killed by police in the last 2 years I would disagree with you. You are acting like all cops are complete monsters. Their job is to take care of the monsters, not be the monsters. Most do a good job of fulfilling that. >99% of killings are warranted. Believe it or not, if a danger is posed to the cop, they are supposed to shoot the person that is threatening them! Nobody is saying all cops are bad. We know the majority do a great job. But those who don't need to be held accountable. And use of deadly force is only warranted if the officer feels his life is in danger, not just if they feel threatened.

This protest isn't going to do anything for those who won't admit to there being a problem in this country. Their lives are fine, how can it be different for others? Instead of being upset with the protest, try to learn about why it's taking place and what minorities deal with on a daily basis.

I think you missed this article: http://www.cnn.com/2016/10/17/us/police-chiefs-group-minorities-apology/

...and the coaches' reaction to players NOT taking a knee, which is even sadder. Right. People have the right to chose if they want to stand or kneel. Glad you finally agree.

Police chief group issues apology to minorities: http://www.cnn.com/2016/10/17/us/police-chiefs-group-minorities-apology/ Probably doesn't happen without the protests.

The biggest problem in this country is the income gap between the very rich and the very poor. We need to invest in the inner cities to bring jobs and opportunity to poor people. And those poor people are disproportionately black. It's not a handout, it's a helping hand.

Former presidential candidate was shouted down and booed off of HIS OWN stage for saying "All lives matter." http://www.cnn.com/2015/07/18/politics/martin-omalley-all-lives-matter/ Black Lives Matter Co-Founder: ‘All Lives Matter’ a Racial Slur, ‘White Folks Gotta Give Up Something’ http://www.breitbart.com/big-government/2016/02/23/black-lives-matter-co-founder-all-lives-matter-a-racial-slur/ Every Time You Say “All Lives Matter” You Are Being an Accidental Racist http://www.huffingtonpost.com/jesse-damiani/every-time-you-say-all-li_1_b_11004780.html Obama Explains The Problem With ‘All Lives Matter’ "...“I think the reason that the organizers used the phrase “black lives matter” was not because they were suggesting nobody else’s lives matter,” he said. “What they were suggesting was, there is a specific problem that is happening in the African-American community that’s not happening in other communities. And that is a legitimate issue that we’ve got to address.” --Barack Obama https://thinkprogress.org/obama-explains-the-problem-with-all-lives-matter-780912d54888#.dtnb7120l So landlord, if you disagree with me, take it up with the founder of Black Lives Matter and your president. Oh, and the Black Lives Matter crowd to which your link pointed is mostly white, so that might be damning to the point you are trying to make. As for the second link, I think All Lives Matter and I said something when it happened, so that article is disingenuous and discredited. I have been pointing out the disturbing trends in police shootings before Rose-Ivey was born, back in the time of Waco and Ruby Ridge, but I do want to thank him for his kneeling to make me aware that I wasn't really aware. Try reading and comprehending your links. Saying "All lives matter" is dismissing minorities that don't enjoy many of the same privileges as white people.

And that's the problem. White people don't know what it's like to be black and the day-to-day hardships they face. There may be some instances where being black is an advantage, but they are very few and very far between. Read this and get back to me: http://www.deanza.edu/faculty/lewisjulie/White%20Priviledge%20Unpacking%20the%20Invisible%20Knapsack.pdf

The bolded part is where things get blurred a bit. There are black people in this country that I would very much like to be treated like. I'm sure there are white people that most blacks would like to be treated like. However, there are also black people in this country that I wouldn't like to be treated like just like there are white people in this country that most black people would not like to be treated like. There are pockets of this great nation where a lot of the factory jobs have disappeared placing many white people on welfare. In these areas, crime is now running out of control and drugs are rampant. While it doesn't get the media coverage, a lot of the whites in these areas face similar circumstances. Of course you'd want the same treatment as a black pro athlete, actor or musician. And no one wants to be treated like poor white trash. But if you take a black person and a white person of the same socioeconomic status, which one would you want to be? There are lots of jobs, but they are crappy jobs. The middle class is being wiped out because no one wants to pay that kind of salary. So those jobs go overseas or they are replaced with a cheaper solution. The problem is people are making less money, and companies are reaping bigger profits. More of the money in these companies needs to go to the employees. Profits should be redistributed so a larger portion goes to those doing the producing. Being a cop is like being an umpire. If you do your job well, no one notices. But everyone knows who Don Denkinger is (maybe not the younger kids). There are going to be mistakes, just like every other job. But when a cop screws up, someone dies. And speaking of things no one has replied to, that Ferguson report talks about the racist policies that black people have to deal with. That investigation was only for Ferguson, but you're kidding yourself if you think that's the only place that does that kind of stuff.

Personal attacks are no way to disagree with someone's opinion. My comments I made earlier in the thread were in no way snarky, and you went off on me in a way that I did not go off on anyone else. I get really worked up over this subject (see my post following the one you quoted). So when I see people who are unwilling to listen to the players because of the form of their protest, it demonstrates to me that they really don't care. We have a large percentage of our population that live in a different America from you and me. I am making an effort to understand it, are you? I have yet to hear someone answer my question if they would like to be treated the same as black people in this country. You notice no one has replied to post number 906. There's more discussion in this thread about the posters feelings than what he actual protest is about. So I really am not worried about stepping on some toes. I'm trying to push this topic forward and make this country a better place.

This isn't a topic in which we can remain pleasant in discussing. People need to be taken out of their comfort zone. I was raised in an all white community and went to an all white school. I've never experienced what minorities experienced growing up in this country. I was raised to respect everyone and treat them how I would want to be treated. I started to become aware of these problems during diversity training for my new career as a teacher in an inner city high school. We took a bus around the neighborhoods that these kids are growing up in and it physically hurt me to learn what these kids go through. The cycle of poverty is a vicious thing. One of my students lost his father last week to cancer at 38. I wonder if he had better access to health care if he's still be alive. I learned about white privilege. It's easy to just live our own lives when we have no idea what those less fortunate are going through. Well, what can we do? I don't know for sure, but we can start by electing people who will look out for the interests of all people, not just the wealthy ones who donate to their campaigns.

So, my message will be disregarded if they person doesn't like my "tone"? What does that sound like? Like someone won't pay attention to the protest if they don't like the form it takes? If you don't like my tone, don't jump in making snarky comments without reading through the thread first. If you act disingenuous, be prepared for the repercussions. I've tried putting some thought into this topic and have been respectful to those who seem like they actually want to learn about the issues behind the protest even though they didn't like MRI and others taking a knee.

Lots of people pretend they want to know the issues, but won't put in the effort to actually find out. Or know and don't care so they deflect with "I don't like how they protest, so I'm going to ignore it." First, the end game is progress and awareness. Even if MRI never kneels again he will have accomplished this in his own small context, and will not be a hypocrite for stopping. Second, the University would care and give time and due diligence in listening to anyone with real perceived slights or injustices. Ok. That is totally fine. Thank you for fully answering some questions. 1)So this is a protest to raise awareness. No problem. Will he tell us when we are all aware? 2) can I get a list of these "real" injustices? I just want to make sure my injustices are as "real" as the next persons. Does the university have this in writing. I just want to make sure that if they tell me NO, I can say but Landlord said you would listen... 1. When you pull your head out of your ass, you will become aware. Then hopefully, we can all make some progress. 2. Do your own homework. Google "white privilege". Read the report from Ferguson that lays out the racist policies carried out by the police. https://www.justice.gov/sites/default/files/opa/press-releases/attachments/2015/03/04/ferguson_police_department_report.pdf Odd. I thought I stuck pretty much to what I thought could have made the protest better, I did not want it go to personal attacks. Are we through with civil talking? If so, I would like to stay on the board but will not respond to personal attacks, I do not think that helps. The protests pretty much accomplished what they were supposed to accomplish. If you didn't want to be attacked personally, you shouldn't have posted crap like "these 'real' injustices" and "Will he tell us when we're all aware?" Statements like that show you have no interest in the actual issues and you're just feigning outrage at the protester's methods to deflect. And I couldn't care less if you stay on the board or not. If you actually want to discuss issues in an intelligent and mature manner, great. Quit with the passive aggressive BS and join the adults.

Lots of people pretend they want to know the issues, but won't put in the effort to actually find out. Or know and don't care so they deflect with "I don't like how they protest, so I'm going to ignore it." First, the end game is progress and awareness. Even if MRI never kneels again he will have accomplished this in his own small context, and will not be a hypocrite for stopping. Second, the University would care and give time and due diligence in listening to anyone with real perceived slights or injustices. Ok. That is totally fine. Thank you for fully answering some questions. 1)So this is a protest to raise awareness. No problem. Will he tell us when we are all aware? 2) can I get a list of these "real" injustices? I just want to make sure my injustices are as "real" as the next persons. Does the university have this in writing. I just want to make sure that if they tell me NO, I can say but Landlord said you would listen... 1. When you pull your head out of your ass, you will become aware. Then hopefully, we can all make some progress. 2. Do your own homework. Google "white privilege". Read the report from Ferguson that lays out the racist policies carried out by the police. https://www.justice.gov/sites/default/files/opa/press-releases/attachments/2015/03/04/ferguson_police_department_report.pdf