AllNRed

The numbers are for the career (accomplishments on the field). Personally, I never said that Ron Dayne was a better back than Rozier, I simply stated he had a better career. Some don't know, or understand the difference. Others don't want to understand the difference because unless I say Rozier is the greatest back ever and his career surpasses all who has played before and after him, then I am disrespecting.......

So people who don't see your point of view don't simply have a different opinion, they're 1) offended, or 2) butthurt? Bit of a flawed point of view, that. You seem to be taking those comments literally......but since we are on the subject...... When I hear statements like "Ron Dayne doesn't deserve to highlight a HOF class" or "if he was on the Husker 82 roster, he would be 3rd string and barely get any carries" or "so what he has more yards/TDs, Rozier has a better ypc" or "he didn't have no one else on his team"..........that sounds a bit like someone is "offended" or "butt hurt" that someone who has never played for dear 'ol Nebraska having their career quoted as being better than one of the most beloved huskers to ever step foot in Lincoln. I'm getting elementary arguments to argue Rozier's greatness. IMO, that's a disrespect to him because he has done so much more on the field than to have the strongest argument for him being great is that "well, he had other talents he had to share snaps with" or "he has a better YPC average". The arguments are weak. Bigdsrip gave a great discription to why Dayne is worthy of being respected as one of college footballs elite RBs and the husker fans whom have chosen to take my little quote and run with it only have given arguments for Rozier that he has a better YPC and he had to play with Turner Gill & co. Fact is Dayne has accomplished everything that Rozier has accomplished as a college RB, but Rozier has not accomplished everything that Dayne has. You argue a 7.2 YPC average is better than a 5.9 YPC, true, but its not like 5.9 YPC is not a great average to have. No one looks at that stat and thinks less of a RB at any level. You also dismiss the fact that Dayne accomplished 1500+ total yards and 21 TDs than Rozier. Yes, I understand Rozier only played 3 years here, but if you add 1500 total yards and 21 TDs, wouldn't that make Roziers career that much better.....Yes.....so why is the fact that another player has it and Rozier doesn't make his career less than Rozier's...........oh, I figured it out..........Dayne wasn't a HUSKER, so he couldn't possible be compared to the greatest HUSKER RB of all time..................that my friend is what I mean by being offend or butt hurt.........."how dare I mention Dayne and Rozier in the same sentence"......

Ron Dayne has the most yards rushing of any D1A college running back, ever. So you're making the claim that he had the best career of any college running back to play D1A, ever? Because of yards? Do you think that the YPC argument is stronger?

This is an arbitrary definition. Conveniently, it supports a stance you've taken. Further, the stats don't clearly point to Dayne as having the better career. While he had more total yards, Rozier had a higher yard per carry average. Those stats can be twisted just about any way you like. When these two are so close with things like awards, etc., what is there left to compare other than total (career) stats? Gayle Sayers had a better YPC than Walter Payton. Who had the better career? Rex Burkhead had a better YPC than O.J.Simpson.......love Burkhead but on the field I'd take the "Juice".

This is an arbitrary definition. Conveniently, it supports a stance you've taken. Further, the stats don't clearly point to Dayne as having the better career. While he had more total yards, Rozier had a higher yard per carry average. Those stats can be twisted just about any way you like. Why is that more important to you. I can't think of any back to average 7.2 ypc other than Rozier.....good for him. Do you not think that the fact that defenses had more to worry about on the field at one time than just him, would open up the opportunity for him to get further down field when he does touch the ball. Even Bo Jackson averaged 6.6 ypc at Auburn.....and IMO, hands down that's the best athlete I've ever witnessed on a football field.

Defining a "college career" is the difference in the argument. There's no single definition, and that's where we vary. You cannot simply define a "college career" based on total yards and/or touchdowns - as we've already discussed, that would mean Taylor Martinez has already had a better "college career" than Tommie Frazier, and that's ludicrous. What's your definition of a "college career".......total yards and/ touchdowns is a big part of a college career because that's the whole point of playing the game. Gaining yards and scoring. We can add in national awards, which I pointed out that Rozier hasn't won an award that Dayne did not. We can talk about the win/loss column in the big games where's I also pointed out that Rozier was 1-1 in two Orange Bowls and Dayne was 2-2 (eclipsing 200 yards in both games gaining MVP in each). Both were consider the best RBs in the draft though Rozier went USFL route first. The only thing that tips the scale is #'s.......total yards & touchdowns. Of course Dayne got a extra season, but that extra season was a great season. He's 1500 yards & 21 TDs ahead of Roziers career totals. It's not like every back in the nation accomplishes just those numbers in a season. This thread turned into a Rozier vs Dayne because husker fans got butt hurt about me saying that someone's career was better than an all-time husker great's. There's 27 RBs ahead of Rozier on the all time rushing leaders for college. Closest to have 7.2 ypc on that list is LaMichael James with 6.6 ypc. But these guys are put in order of their ypc average, they are ranked in order of total production of their career. Discrediting a RB because he averaged 5.9 ypc and not 7.2 is like telling a SF because he averages 26 ppg and not 30+ Here's the list http://www.fbsstatis...hingleaders.htm Ron Dayne Wisconsin 6,397 1996 - 1999 Ricky Williams Texas 6,279 1995 - 1998 Tony Dorsett Pittsburgh 6,082 1973 - 1976 DeAngelo Williams Memphis 6,026 2002 - 2005 Charles White USC 5,598 1976 - 1979 Travis Prentice Miami (Oh) 5,596 1996 - 1999 Cedric Benson Texas 5,540 2001 - 2004 Damion Fletcher Southern Miss 5,302 2006 - 2009 LaDainian Tomlinson TCU 5,263 1997 - 2000 Herschel Walker Georgia 5,259 1980 - 1982 Archie Griffin Ohio State 5,177 1972 - 1975 Avon Cobourne West Virginia 5,164 1999 - 2002 Garrett Wolfe Northern Illinois 5,164 2004 - 2006 Montee Ball Wisconsin 5,140 2009 - 2012 LaMichael James Oregon 5,082 2009 - 2011 Mike Hart Michigan 5,040 2004 - 2007 Darren Lewis Texas A&M 5,012 1987 - 1990 Darren Sproles Kansas State 4,979 2001 - 2004 DonTrell Moore New Mexico 4,973 2002 - 2005 Anthony Thompson Indiana 4,965 1986 - 1989 George Rogers South Carolina 4,958 1977 - 1980 Trevor Cobb Rice 4,948 1989 - 1992 Michael Turner Northern Illinois 4,941 2000 - 2003 Ray Rice Rutgers 4,926 2005 - 2007 Paul Palmer Temple 4,895 1983 - 1986 Steve Bartalo Colorado State 4,813 1983 - 1986 Ken Simonton Oregon State 4,802 1998 - 2001 Mike Rozier Nebraska 4,780 1981 - 1983 Do I think all of these guys ahead of him are better backs.......H*** No. But some could be argued to have an equal or better career than Rozier. So, what that he had to share snaps with other great players on his team. When the #'s go into the books, notice there is no mention of Craig/Gill/Fryar or anyone one else.

It's almost like people just want to argue for the sake of arguing. Lawrence Phillips is probably my favorite husker RB even over Rozier, but Rozier obviously had a better career as a husker. My original post was simply just a statement saying that Dayne's "college career" was better than Roziers. Which it is. If we posted their stats up and no one knew who's stats were who's, yes we would give much credit to the player with a higher ypc and 1 less year, but we would say that the others collective amount of accomplishments on the field is better. No he didn't average 7.2 ypc but last I checked 5.9 or 6.0 ypc was pretty damn good also. And he did it for 4 seasons, without having an abudance of talent around him to take some of the focus off of him while he is on the field. Someone said that if he was on the 82 Husker squad he would be 3rd string getting barely any carries......that's the most ignorant comment I've heard on any football board I've ever been apart of, thus helped me to understand that regardless of what I say, they are simply not going to hear it because Rozier is the best.....

It's good that at least one person understands that this guy was an elite back and in a class all of his own. Another fun fact about him is that you can count on one hand how many times he fumbled as a Badger and still have a finger free. As I said in my first post, he was a beast of a player. No knock on anyone else in NU's or any other programs history, but he deserves to headline a HOF as much as anyone else.

Yet another example of comprehension not really being the strong point in a response.

Barry Sanders only had 3,797 yards rushing in college. Therefore, Ron Dayne is better. See how stupid this sounds? Sounds even dumber when that wasn't what I was saying. Comprehension seems not as important to some as it is to me.

So let me get this straight........Mike Rozier's career production was limited because Osborne happen to put other weapons around him but I should still consider it better than Ron Dayne's because Alvarez didn't do the same. Forget the fact that Dayne ran for more yards and TDs because Rozier would have done the same IF he had an extra year and less talent around him............thanks guys. I'd of never been able to see the light without you......

You don't understand because you obviously missed my original point. Not always the better player has the best career. And it's not that I was arguing passionately. I simply was responding to another poster who was responding to me. Similar to how I'm responding to you

Agreed! If the teams that finished above Wisky hadn't been prohibited from the title game, our season doesn't look as bad. We don't get waxed by a Wisky team that essentially had 4 weeks to put a little Nebraska stuff in every practice. Also, I like how we played OSU for a good portion of the game. And I think we beat PSU. I said it before the CCG, I don't know how you let Wisky even play in the game. There should be a rule that makes the next BiG team by record whether Legends or Leaders eligible for the game when sanctions take away multiple teams like that from one division. It was embarrassing that they even got in. And if we had beat them and went to the rose bowl, it would have been tainted just like Wiskys appearance in that game. I want accomplishments of substance. Earned, not defaulted to. I COULDN'T AGREE MORE WITH THIS POST. ESPECIALLY THE LAST SENTENCE.

You say this now, but had Bo finished the season with 7 wins this year and NU fans hoping Michigan and Northwestern are the only two teams in our division with better records due to their sanctions so that we can rematch a Wisconsin team who stole a game from us, you wouldn't be as comfortable with that post. No husker fan would. We don't like how somethings went down over the course of the season, but a 6 game win streak after a blowout on the road to a team who eventually finishes their season undefeated is much better to accept than a 1-3 finish of the regular season with the win coming from one of the two worse teams in the conference. Blowout losses hurt. They hurt even more when historically you are the one giving them out, but they still only equate to one loss at a time. We still stepped off the field with more points than the opponent 10 times this season. There's no way can I see a season only winning 7 as a better season.

P.S. To answer your question, yes, I am, though I'm a Texas kid, so during that time Nebraska was just another great team, and I was more focused on SMU/UT/aTm.........I became a Husker fan when a family member introduced me to Turner Gill my sophmore year in high school........I ended up moving to Omaha that following year, by coincidence, but still end up going to a Texas school (Baylor) on a track & field scholarship. That explains a lot. I guess so...........thanks for the discussion though. I don't normally do "intros" as to who I am on any message board simply because I figure no one cares. I just love talking college football and hearing different views both Husker fans and non Husker fans. It's amazing how many different angles and point of views 2 or 3 different people can get from watching one play. It's what drives me to discuss, long story short.

we know the feeling... i dont think Bo was even close to that bad of a hire? I wasn't talking about Bo. Then who...? vvvv OH GOD....

we know the feeling... THIS

If that's your criteria for a better career, then we'll have to agree to disagree. Also, you never answered my question: Were you alive to see Rozier play? Did you watch his Nebraska career live or do you rely on highlight reels? I guess we'll just agree to disagree.......... And I answered you question in my previous post.

The answer to that question doesn't either argument more right or wrong....... That's the same quote one generation would use in discussing who is a better NBA player Dr. J or MJ or LJB. I do this with my nephews and sons all the time. P.S. To answer your question, yes, I am, though I'm a Texas kid, so during that time Nebraska was just another great team, and I was more focused on SMU/UT/aTm.........I became a Husker fan when a family member introduced me to Turner Gill my sophmore year in high school........I ended up moving to Omaha that following year, by coincidence, but still end up going to a Texas school (Baylor) on a track & field scholarship.

Jack Hoffman 69 ypc /eot Nice....

Playing for a national championship and winning it is two different things. So let's just point out that Rozier played in the Orange Bowl, which is where the Big 8 Champ normally appeared, in back to back years. He's 1-1 in those games. Dayne appeared in the Rose Bowl, which is where the Big 10 Champ normally appeared, in back to back years. He's 2-0. Not sure why you are throwing the national championship appearance as a rebuttal being that we lost that game and this is well before the bowl selection system that was in place in 1999 was in place when deciding who is in the national title game. Rozier had a Chic Harley Award....I apologize, I missed that as was pointed out by another poster. Again, you are going back to the "more ypc" argument. That's great, but Dayne finished with a full season's worth, a great season at that, of yards & TDs more. What if - Rozier had another year, he could have surpassed Dayne easily in yards and TDs.........of course this COULD BE TRUE. What if - Rozier came back another year and got a season ending injury which hurt his worth for playing at the next level, never giving him a chance to play to the full ability of his talent after NU......of course this COULD BE TRUE. Taking out the what ifs...........who has more yards. who has more touchdowns, they both have the same awards, and both played in consecutive "Big Boy Bowls".........only one thing tips the scale towards Dayne when it comes to his career. My goodness. Why is that hard to accept.........Do I have to believe that Rozier's CAREER is better than every back that finished with more yards simply because they were used more or had less talent around them or played an extra year.......

Rozier also has a Chic Harley Award. The Doak Walker and Jim Brown Awards were created in 1990 and 1991. Thanks...I didn't know that he had a Chic Harley.......and forgot about DWA and JBA being newer awards. So, I won't hold that against Rozier.

Not sure who is saying that......for some odd reason, that's how my original post is being interpreted.

Taylor Martinez would have a better career if he accomplished everything that Tommie Frazier did, which we all know he has not. The comparison of those two is not the same as Rozier/Dayne. Both Rozier & Dayne won a Heisman Both Rozier & Dayne won a Maxwell Both Rozier & Dayne won a Walter Camp Both Rozier & Dayne were Player of the Year Both Rozier & Dayne were Consensus All Americans (Rozier Twice) Dayne also has a Chic Harley Award, Doak Walker Award, Jim Brown Award, MVP of two major bowl games (Rose Bowl).......with the addition of 1500+ yards and 21 more TDs.......... I really don't understand why you are misinterpreting what I am saying or if you are purposely doing so...........Rozier was a GREAT RB, one of the best in history. But based on his accomplishments on the field during his college career compared to Dayne's, Dayne gets the nod for having a better CAREER. Example since we are just throwing out names...........Ahman Green I believe is the all time leading rusher for the Green Bay Packers.....great athlete, had a great career.......Vincent Jackson...better known as Bo, arguably one of the best athletes to every play in the NFL, doesn't own a single record due to career being cut short from injury and early retirement. I would say Ahman had a better career than Bo without suggesting that Ahman is a better RB than Bo. Another example Colt McCoy at one time was the winningest college QB (I think the record was broken by Boise St's QB). I would argue that his career was great and much better than Russell Wilson's, but which QB would you say is better. I hope you see my point. I'm not knocking anything about Rozier, but he does not have the best college career of any RB in history, and Ron Dayne, though not a "better RB" has one of those careers that are better, based on accomplishments, not "what ifs".

Andy is a joke, IMO. Not a big deal. NU has had it's struggles but any team that has finished their last two seasons with 10 wins deserve to be top 25 in any preseason poll. Michigan St. #14......what is this guy looking at? Vandy........what? And Kansas St not even in the top #25......really.....didn't they just play in a BCS?