jmfb

Not pretty but perfect. I miss seeing those hard nosed, stand up multiple defenders and still manage to get into the endzone runs. I was at this game in Seattle At the time many including myself thought this one was going to be a real tough game Lots of people sceptical of how SF would handle the nasty away crowd NU came in cool and confident- and quieted a loud and kind of nasty crowd- to NU fans anyways Frost really showed his toughness that day and won a lot of people over He was our most physical running QBs Ive seen in nearly 50 years of watching NU. He was a beast to take down inbetween the tackles and allowed TO to develop some new twists to take advantage of that

I have played on very good teams and you are wrong on your assessment of swagger. Those 90's teams jumped around, taunted and made gestures all the time. No different then what they do know except they backed it up. My personal experience of playing on, playing against and coaching for, coaching against many teams like that are much different than yours The dominant teams NU had in the 70s, 80s and 90s- from watching them in person and knowing and coaching with a bunch of the guys who played then- some coaching their sons.-They would disagree with you about quiet confidence vs jump around swagger. BTW Ive seen a lot of that fake bravado swagger of late in the tunnel- often times followed by a blowout loss. NU tried some of that jump around swagger stuff for a very brief time period when NU was trying to break through the OU losing funk. TO let the kids do more of that, didnt work very well at all.

There is a big difference between hopping around, jumping all over each, making a bunch of gestures etc and swagger The swagger the dominant NU teams of the past wasnt about false bravado They just came out onto the field very focused and confident that they were going to play physical and effective football So did the opposition- who often times were looking for a soft place to lay down in the 3rd or 4th quarters If youve been a part of a team like that- you know what Im talking about- inner passion and legit confidence in the end outcome That comes from demonstrated and consistent excellence in the offseason and practice- not some false bravado thing prior to the game

Tell Bill Snyder it takes great talent to win 8,9,10, games Some recruiting classes in the 60 rank Winning Nat Championships yes, not winning 8,9,10 games Its the excuse of weaker coaches and failures everywhere- always something to blame

Great coaching has very little to do with luck Thats why hes making what $6,000,000 a year? Most people have absolutlely no clue how big a difference coaching really makes and yes the great ones like Snyder and Urban can put together 8 win seasons without a lot of talent Thats how Urban set the record as biggest one year turnaround in DI history and why he has won early and won big at every single stop When you are at the top or sharing it- out of about 130 guys who are HC in DI- and those guys have seperated themselves from 1000s of others- you can do a lot of things others cant. Just like the very top performers in any field/endeavor. I know a HIgh School coach , good friend who has taken 6 jobs, everyone one but 1 he took over a last place team, one hadnt won a game in 3 years. He won championships at every stop, some in 1 year, all within 3.. He feels his mission is to turnaround HS programs then train and turn them over to others. He hasnt missed yet- in NC and SC- it isnt luck when you do it consistently Those on the bottom may call it luck to make themselves feel better about themselves- same goes for about everything these days,. However if youve been around it, lived it, guys being honest with themselves- understand the real picture and everything it takes to achieve excellence at the highest level- they give those guys the credit they deserve.

Re-read what Junior wrote jmfb...You must have missed the underlined part Its LUDICROUS to Bowling Green was stacked- that is what he said A TWO win team is stacked? k The guy has won and won HUGE at every stop no matter how bad the team was prior That's why he makes the big $$- has won multiple national titles at 2 different schools The haters or detractors against Urban couldn't carry his jock strap.

So would you say that Nebraska had an offensive system that allowed a quarterback to complete only 50% of his passes and still be successful? I'd say "using the passing game as a constraint to keep an offense more productive" might in fact "keep a defense honest" at the same time, especially as you say that Nebraska established it's 47% passing game as as a "legitimate threat" that defenses had to respect. Pretty sure we're all in agreement about a lot of stuff. But it's hard to let go when challenged. Im thinking 3 National Championships- almost always in the top 10 and "in the conversation" more often than not over 25 years would mean yes Osborne was a genius at putting a defense in conflict and using constraint theory both in play design- scheme design and play calling. Subtle innovations like a QB buck trap against Washington- Empty QB trap against Florida, Trap off belly action with RG faking sweep- head bob, foot fake against Miami- using the defenses keys against themselves etc So many games first play HUGE gains or even TDs- based on scheme/playcalling If you want to hear what is was really like- listen to a former player and coach like Damon Benning talk about it. The NU team was LAUGHING at Florida before the game- when the Gator players were doing their truck pump thing. NU KNEW it was going to be a blowout based on the scheme and plays TO had in place on O and D. Close in the first, but every player I know on that team- talked about how TO had it all mapped out and they knew they were going to score 50+ Lots of guys right and wrong about things- like anything else Football is an amazing thing- guys who have never played or coached before- really don't understand the game- feel qualified to critique and sometimes feel superior to guys - College coaches- who have done it and successfully for a long period of time. So many people I hear say- all they have to do is X or Y to be successful- when its much more complicated than that. They aren't making nuclear bombs, but under the covers if people saw what was involved would absolutely make their heads spin.

Urban took over a "stacked" Bowling Green and Utah teams? Bowling Green went from 2-9 to 8-3 in year 1 under Urban Utah went 12-0 and he was coach of the year in conference his last year Don't think so The guy lost what 1 game in 3 years at OSU and won National Title Won 2 Titles at Florida, not done before or since. The guy deserves his due one of the top 2 coaches Now, possibly top 10 all time Time will tell- don't bet against him

One doesnt have to be at a certain percentage of passing plays to be "balanced" or keep a defense honest Osborne used the passing game as a constraint to make his offense more productive Roll your coverage to get another DB playing aggressive on the run and have your backside LB play aggressive on the run? Expect to see the backside Tight End on a big play off the Option Play Action Pass. If a defense failed to honor his constraints- he would make them pay. He would force teams to play him the way he wanted them to play by alignment and assignment and sometimes even personnel . Even with passers that only hit 47% of their passes were effective using this approach because there was a perceived legitimate threat that a long ball had a reasonable chance of being caught for a big gain. The payoff wasnt worth the risk, just ask Minnesota- who tried to do it for 3 quarters and NU scored 84 points against them- after going 3 and out the first possession. I havent looked at the numbers but Im guessing even our worst % passers had a pretty good yards per attempt average- which is what really matters when using constraint theory to gain lots of yards in football. A low completion % for long yards per completion can be just as constraining as one of those 65% dink and dunk teams that average 6-7 yards an attempt No need to pass a certain # of times. Pass when the constraint is no longer honored or when the matchup is significantly in your favor or when down, distance, field position and game situation allow for a "throw away" play. At the end of the day, Osborne passed when he wanted to on his terms, when he did that his teams passed well. When playing the best teams you also have to be competent at throwing when the defense is sitting on pass. TO was much better at that than many give him credit for- being able to pass when forced to do so. His double slant call against Mizzou in the 97 game is a good example or the comeback against Miami etc As to passing 36 times against Pacific: Many coaches, myself included will take a specific game we feel very confident about the end result. In that game the game plan will be all about getting better at things we need to get better at. It may also be about seeing how younger or less utilized players respond to working with the top unit, then end goal being to figure out where we are at, see what other players can do and develop the team- in low risk situation.

ISU in that tiny stadium that ALWAYS seemed to be windy and cold, wasnt any trip to grandmas In the late 70s, their fans were down right nasty- one of the worst student sections around- Dexter Green era LOTS of car vandalism, guy parked right next to me lost both a window, antenna and a tire

Pretend TO couldnt have made the adjustments to have a similar amount of success as well? Nick Saban and Urban Meyer seem to have figured out how to do it- Im thinking TO is in their class. TO changed his D over time, Im guessing he would have been able to do it again, pretty smart guy. Is Wisconsins Power RUn offense a hurry up pass happy thing? Or is it something more in tune with what TO saw back in his day when teams werent scoring 59-70 points on his teams? The Lombardis, Osbornes, Swtizers, Rocknes, Warners, Meyers, Sabans of the world are always going to succeed big, no matter the era.

Im not sure anyone is ranking Riley anywhere close to Bill Snyder in real lifeThe guy deserves his due Erickson came in behind Riley and they didnt miss a beat, did better in fact When Snyder left KSU fell apart and Snyder resurrected them again- with recruiting classes in the 40s, 50s, 60s, Just quoting stats. I think Snyder is a good coach, just not as great as you are portraying him to be! I also believe Riley is a much better teacher & fit for the Huskers. How would you like to portray Snyder? When he took over at KState, they had the worst record in D1 football. They hadn't won a game in 27 attempts. Then you look at the history of KState. They were the first D1 team to lose 500 games and had the worst historical record of any D1 program. With all of this history, he's still accomplished six top ten finishes. I can't think of a single coach who has taken over a team with similar circumstances and had even half the success Snyder has had. Well, I'm not a fan of this guy or the football program but, Howard Schnellenburger took over a Miami team that (I believe) was talking about completely dropping football before he took over. They were pathetically horrible and nobody cared about them in Miami. He promised an NC within 5 years and delivered. Now, even with Miami's success since then, I would rather be a fan of KSU than thug U. But, you asked about someone taking over a really bad program and had anywhere close to the same success. How is the weather in Miami? vs Manhattan How about population base- compared to Kansas? How does Florida compare to Kansas when it comes to having LOTS of good football players within 20, 50, 100, 200, 500 miles? Lots of big airports, direct flights in Miami- got to drive quite a ways to KC from Manhattan to get flights Miami has beaches, Manhattan, not so much Miami has night life- other things kids like- Manhattan, not so much KSU may have been a much tougher gig, dont you think? Howards success was short lived- he wasnt able to consistently replicate it like Snyder Snyders success wasnt a flash in the pan Jimmy Johnson and Cocker did pretty well after Howard left- National Titles etc KSU fell apart after Snyder left

Thanks for taking the time and having an open mind, Lo Country. Folks suffering through this thread may have forgotten that I had originally responded to your post asserting that while Tom Osborne teams may have lost, they were never beaten, and a couple subsequent posts about Osborne only losing to great teams. First hand memories and historical evidence confirms that Tom Osborne teams got beaten pretty bad by those great teams, and his losses to unranked and lower ranked teams were hardly abberations. His Nebraska teams had plenty of letdown games, fumble-fests and clunkers, like a lot of Top 20 teams do every year. His potential departures in 1978 and 1990 confirms that criticism of Osborne was not limited to a tiny minority that didn't understand football. There's a good reason for remembering Nebraska football in the '90s, but there were different storylines in the the 20 years preceeding it. I'll leave jmfb to argue that on balance, Tom Osborne was a great coach, presiding over season after season that Bo Pelini and the fanbase would love to have had. An argument that no one here has disagreed with. Youre the one beating a dead horse and a lot of the info isn't correct For Example in 1996 Arizona State was ranked #2 going into the Rose Bowl and came one play away from winning the National Title- finishing 4th a year NU fought its way back into the National Title conversation. In 1990 both Georgia Tech and Colorado ended up being #1- we lost to both. I think one of those Washington Teams ended up winning a National Title too. Lots of the games posted are from teams ranked higher than NU and most times with better recruiting classes. Look at all the #1- 5 teams on that list. My goodness when was the last time we even played a National Championship team? People have no context or real thing to compare it to today. NU under TO averaged 15 in recruiting ranking There was no big fan movement to look at anyone other than TO to coach ALL great coaches have agents, teams beating on their doors, that's life All the near misses I pointed out more than made up for the tiny handful of "bad" losses As someone that had season tickets throughout all of the TO years from 1970 forward- and working in a good sized office, and interacting with lots of football coaches/Football people, attending away games/bowl games etc- I didn't see anything that looked like paying fan support to replace TO. If there was an oddball comment which I heard very little of, the reaction was usually rolled eyes and a smirk from most. Im disagreeing with you, that's it. "plenty" of bad games would mean those teams wouldn't end up in the top 10 or TO being in the Hall of Fame- or in the top 3 all time in most guys lists. Which wasn't the case at all. Jesus H Christ on a crutch. I picked Tom Osborne's first seven seasons because that only seemed fair, then I listed 8 ties or losses to unranked teams, and another five losses to teams ranked lower than Nebraska. One of those was a 35 - 10 beatdown by Oklahoma, when Nebraska was ranked #2 and favored in the game. In our 27 - 0 loss to OU, Nebraska never snapped the ball in OU territory. In our 28 - 14 loss to OU, they rushed for 482 yards. In that 35 -10 loss to OU, Nebraska had six turnovers. In our 38 - 7 loss to OU a good Nebraska team shot itself in the foot with turnovers and penalties, showing big game yips once again. Again, that's just in the first seven seasons, a period of time where we think we gauge a coach's tendencies and perhaps his "ceiling." In the '80s, Tom Osborne also lost to unranked and lower ranked teams -- no more or less an aberration -- while generally keeping NU in the championship hunt, including a truly legendary 1983 team. But by now he was also earning enough of a reputation for losing big games that the streak of bowl losses inspired jokes that other posters here still remember (not unlink Bo Pellllini.) In hindsight we can say it wasn't fair. In the moment it seemed like Tom Osborne got outcoached when it mattered most. I'm glad you only hung out with 100% supporters, but this view was shared by people who understand football. I think it's a valuable bit of perspective on a coach who would go on to become a legend and first ballot hall-of-famer. Had Tom Osborne bolted in '78 when stung by criticism, or stubbornly refused to make changes in 1990 like some coaches we could name, he would have had a 17 year career that we could all defend on paper, but never quite celebrate. If you want to tell me that Tom Osborne never had a game like Wisconsin 2012 or McNeese State 2014, I promise to go downstairs and shoot myself. Go get the gun then NU under TO never lost to a 6 loss team by 39 or let anyone score 70 points on them- especially a power running team, which is what Wisconsin did. We all know Wisconsin could have easily scored 84 on is after having 63 at the end of 3. I dont remember any TO games like that, because it never happened. NU never let a !AA team hang with them to the last seconds, requiring a miracle one man play to win it If Im wrong on the above 2, please show me where- 39 point loss/70 point beat down (could have easily been 84) to 6 loss team and miracle last second win vs a DIAA team My personal experiences attending those games and living in Omaha- when it comes to any big number of fans wanting a different coach are much different than yours. As to those OU teams- yes, lots of those teams were either National Title contenders or National Title Winners. They werent the Wisconsins of the world- 6 loss teams with recruitng classes ranked below us. OU was always my second favorite team, loaded with athletes and always a great running game. Loved watching them play.

Snyder at #6 as a career number within that group seems about right

Many feel Snyder will be in the Hall of Fame He is a legend and looked on as a template to follow for a lot of coaches in weak situations A favorite amongst High School coaches Nationwide

Thanks for taking the time and having an open mind, Lo Country. Folks suffering through this thread may have forgotten that I had originally responded to your post asserting that while Tom Osborne teams may have lost, they were never beaten, and a couple subsequent posts about Osborne only losing to great teams. First hand memories and historical evidence confirms that Tom Osborne teams got beaten pretty bad by those great teams, and his losses to unranked and lower ranked teams were hardly abberations. His Nebraska teams had plenty of letdown games, fumble-fests and clunkers, like a lot of Top 20 teams do every year. His potential departures in 1978 and 1990 confirms that criticism of Osborne was not limited to a tiny minority that didn't understand football. There's a good reason for remembering Nebraska football in the '90s, but there were different storylines in the the 20 years preceeding it. I'll leave jmfb to argue that on balance, Tom Osborne was a great coach, presiding over season after season that Bo Pelini and the fanbase would love to have had. An argument that no one here has disagreed with. Youre the one beating a dead horse and a lot of the info isn't correct For Example in 1996 Arizona State was ranked #2 going into the Rose Bowl and came one play away from winning the National Title- finishing 4th a year NU fought its way back into the National Title conversation. In 1990 both Georgia Tech and Colorado ended up being #1- we lost to both. I think one of those Washington Teams ended up winning a National Title too. Lots of the games posted are from teams ranked higher than NU and most times with better recruiting classes. Look at all the #1- 5 teams on that list. My goodness when was the last time we even played a National Championship team? People have no context or real thing to compare it to today. NU under TO averaged 15 in recruiting ranking There was no big fan movement to look at anyone other than TO to coach ALL great coaches have agents, teams beating on their doors, that's life All the near misses I pointed out more than made up for the tiny handful of "bad" losses As someone that had season tickets throughout all of the TO years from 1970 forward- and working in a good sized office, and interacting with lots of football coaches/Football people, attending away games/bowl games etc- I didn't see anything that looked like paying fan support to replace TO. If there was an oddball comment which I heard very little of, the reaction was usually rolled eyes and a smirk from most. Im disagreeing with you, that's it. "plenty" of bad games would mean those teams wouldn't end up in the top 10 or TO being in the Hall of Fame- or in the top 3 all time in most guys lists. Which wasn't the case at all.

Im not sure anyone is ranking Riley anywhere close to Bill Snyder in real life The guy deserves his due Erickson came in behind Riley and they didnt miss a beat, did better in fact When Snyder left KSU fell apart and Snyder resurrected them again- with recruiting classes in the 40s, 50s, 60s,

Someone else put up a bunch of stats with 31 being their number of reference not mine ASU that season ended up #4, really good team- Jake Plummer at QB They lost a heartbreaker in the Rose bowl by 3, then ranked #2, had they won they would have won the National Championship. Getting shut out was bad, but we were still getting our QB situation figured out. Tough game for a first time hard road game starter- ASU played great. NU was starting a new QB Scott Frost- and by seasons end was hitting it pretty hard and back in the hunt had it not been for the Flu/Food poisoning fiasco that cost us that crazy close game against Texas My point is- the "bad" games are so infrequent and almost always against such good competition, they dont matter much at all. The great coaches are consistent over the long haul, the lesser ones arent.

For those that werent around to see TOs teams back before he won all those National Titles, he came pretty close quite a few times, which earned him some leeway when he had one of those 17 abberations on a 307 game career. 1975 In National Title hunt until Thanksgiving- losing to OU by 25 and then just barely losing the Fiesta Bowl by 3 to ASU- 2 loss season. 1 play away from 1 loss season 1978- Lost to National Champion Alabama by 17 game 1, Fought themselves back into Nat Title hunt with win over OU, but lost to MO by 4 the following week, lost to OU by 7 in Bowl game. So right on cusp 1979- In title hunt until Thanksgiving- lost to OU and Houston by combined 6 points- and lost late. Lost to Houston in last 12 seconds. So just 2 plays from being undefeated. On cusp. 2 plays away from undefeated season. 1980- 2 Losses- both close nail biters to FSU and OU- again 2 plays from an undefeated season- on the cusp 1981- Lost to Iowa, Penn State and Nat Champion Clemson- all by 1 score or less. Crazy as it sounds worked themselves back into conversation. 3 plays away from undefeated. Close 1982- One crazy loss to Penn State on very controversial set of 2 plays. NU extremely close again- 1 play away/ bad call away from undefeated season 1983- Can anyone get any closer? One tipped pass against Miami away from winning Nat Title- undefeated season 1984- Close again, 2 losses, Syracuse by 8 and OU by 10 1985 FSU by 4, OU by 20, Michigan by 4, 2 plays away from 1 loss season 1986- CU by 10, OU by 3, a total of 13 points, one play away from 1 loss season- in title Hunt 1987 OU by 10, FSU by 4, In title Hunt, 1 play away from 1 loss season 1988 UCLA by 13, Miami by 20 1989 CU by 6, FSU by 24- 1 play away from 1 loss season 1990- "Bad Season"- CU by 15, then OU by 35 and GTZ by 24 1991- WA- really good WA teams then- Nat Title times for them- 15, MIami 22 1992- WA- 15, ISU 9, FSU 13 1993- FSU by 2, a game IMO stolen from NU so one bad call, one play away from undefeated and Nat Title 1994- Nat title 1995 Nat title 1996- Back in the hunt after losing early to #2 ASU- had it not been for the "food poisoning/Flu" of a good portion of the NU team- NU beats Texas and is right in thick of things for National Title 1997- National Title So- as you can see- TOs teams were often times right in the thick of things and only a play away from an undefeated season or 1 loss season. For me and most NU fans back then- that earned him whatever he wanted. There was no big movement to look for another coach. He was right on the cusp and would eventually get his National Titles- that was my thought anyways IMO he had a series of really bad breaks go against him, that had to eventually even themselves out. Sure lots of broken hearted NU fans- but most of us knew or at least were hoping TO would finally win a Nat Title for his sake- not ours. When you compare today vs back then- remember NU was playing in much better Bowl games and would often times lose to the eventual National Champions either in conference- Oklahoma was incredible, CU etc Non Conference Nat Champions- Washington, Bama, FSU, Penn State, #2 ASU etc or Bowl Game- Clemson, GT, FSU, Miami

17 losses by 11 points or more in 307 attempts Only a single loss to an unranked team by 11 or more and Im guessing OU had something to play for that game or was on the edge of being top 20 That is once every 18 games- an incredibly small amount about once every couple of years His consistency is astounding by any standard

Good post Could very well be true, could happen here BUT for those that lived through the BP era rather than just reading about it- most of us will remember his legacy goes well beyond stringing together 7 winning seasons IMO the reason he was let go had to do with his spiteful attitude towards NU fans and administration along with turning the players against the fans, his on the field antics, lack of professsionalism and poor representation of the U. Personally I supported his firing, not that it matters. As to Frank Solich- while no Hall of Fame coach, I thought he deserved more time to develop JMO A guy like Mike Riley is going to see more patience from the majority of fans if the w/l record is similar to Bos. I dont see MR having the same maturity, PR, attitude issues BP had. Lets hope we dont have to find out.

To say great coaches adjust their approach a bit over time goes without saying As to him changing the offense- not so much. Same for s/c. The biggest changes were on scheme and philosophy on D- which had to happen thanks to changes in offensive schemes in college football. Its really tough to match up if you stay in a 50 in the modern game. Sorry, but I thought every NU fan knew about the CU offer, pretty common knowledge for most NU fans At the end of the day TO turned that offer down- all great coaches get feelers/offers. If you are in the top echelon in your profession, no matter what you do, you get calls all the time from head hunters Many professionals these days feel it makes sense to move every 5-7 years Maybe TO didnt want to end up like another Chuck Fairbanks at CU, or wander too far from home- he really disliked his pro football experience. My guess is he would have had the type of success Bill McCartney had there. We will just have to agree to disagree, I remember it differently, i rarely missed a game and no one in our block of 4 season ticket seats or even within earshot in our section was calling for TOs job. To put it in perspective- the same cant be said about Bill C or Bo P. Some of the faces have changed in the section- but fans are fans. EVERY fan base will have a group that wont be satisfied no matter what you do- even a guy like Bob Stoops at OU has a small group of uninformed unappreciative detractors, who are loud and consistent. I just spoke to a guy last week from OKC that told me all about it with a shaking head and smirk on his face.

Yes, he looked at CU and turned it down If I was finishing in the top 10 pretty much every year like he was and getting some near misses at NTs and there was a tiny bit of grumbling, I would be disappointed too. The grumbling wasnt big, no threat to the sellout streak etc ALL the coaching staff was disappointed after beating OU and the silliness of having to play them again in the Bowl game, that would make anyone disappointed. All great coaches- Bear Bryant, Bobby Bowden and even TO adjusted their approaches a bit as the game and landscape changed, all the great ones do. TOs offense over time became more run dependent than the early years and the defense moved from a 50 to 40 look etc

Again I went to nearly every TO coached home game, 3 KO classics, several bowl games, all 3 National Title Wins Yes there was some disappointment last second losses etc- but no one was seriously asking themselves, lets get coach X to come here and take TOs place !990 was an awful team? GT game was against a team that won the NT- and yes, that team had some locker room lawyers that quit on the team- a one time abberation NU lost that year to National Champion Colorado- National Champion GT and OU an 8-3 OU team that lost only to Texas by 1, National Champion Colorado and ISU by 2, OU wasnt eligible to play in a Bowl game, so our game was it. In his worst year, TO still had a pretty good season by many measures. The deal is, even in his "bad" years most of the time we were a top 10 team and often times in the conversation, more often than not, in the conversation People would die to have that right now

CU won a National Title and they werent more talented than NU? OK You must not been watching some of those insanely talented OU teams Barry had back in the day Look at the recruiting class rankings: NU didnt pay anyone to play- lots of lower ranked recruiting classes often times in the 20s Average rank: 15th: http://hailvarsity.com/news/college-football-recruiting/a-brief-history-of-husker-recruiting-rankings-1987-2012/2013/01/ My guess is it would be even lower if they had records that went back to 1973- Later NU was a bit better, National Championships etc Osborne better respected, longer tenure etc Average rank of 15th, but finishing with 3 National Titles and almost always in the Top 10- so much better than the recruiting rank- Beating more talented teams, having better seasons than more talented teams. As to 8 Bowl losses in a row, many times we were playing the eventual National Champion- Clemson, G Tech, FSU, Miami, Miami. Belong in a Bowl ? OK top 10 teams playing for National Champioships dont belong in a bowl? K When you are good like we were back then, you play better competition in the Bowl games than the NU teams do now