The Atheist Experience show

[bennychico11]

By the way benny - how is that working out, if you don't mind me asking? Curious how religious/atheist couples work out differences sometimes (or maybe they just don't come up).

 

I'll admit it's not easy. Religion and politics are two things we don't agree on and probably never will. But I don't think you absolutely have to in order to make a relationship work.

I've always supported her choice in what she believes. I said if it makes her happy and she gets warm feelings every time she goes...then more power to her. But it's not for me. Still, I've agreed to get married in the Catholic church for her and expose our children to the Catholic denomination while they grow up. I've also told her that if our kids ask me questions on my views on religion, I'll tell them my thoughts. But we both want them to experience it for themselves before making a decision when they are older. I grew up Methodist and was pretty involved with the church when I was young. But as I look back on it now, I always questioned what I was reading or being taught. It seemed as if I just going through the motions and not really accepting it on faith. As if I was there more for the social interaction with people my own age versus being there for spiritual reasons. But I never knew of a non-religious life. When I finally asked myself why I can question and be rational about everything else in my day to day world, except religion...that's when I started thinking more about religion skeptically.

 

My fiance and I avoided the religious conversation for awhile because it upset her. One day we brought it up again, discussing specifically what will happen when we have kids. I explained to her that I don't think she ever really asked me my thoughts on religion. So she decided to listen. It was one of the better discussions we had on the topic without anyone getting upset (I tend to talk emphatically which she translates as getting upset/mad). I defined atheism for her as having a lack of belief in god claims. The reason I did that was because she had a misconception with the word...thinking I believed in the devil. I've found this quite common with theists. I went on to explain why I disagree with the bible, why I think she and many others believe in it all simply because they were brought up that way and they don't know anything differently, etc. etc. Anyway, I think we ended the conversation agreeing to disagree. And I hope it ended with both of us being a little more understanding of each other...and being a little more open about our beliefs.

 

I don't think we've seen the end to our discussions. We actually are scheduled to attend pre-marriage counseling in a few weeks (we get married in May). From what I understand it's a Catholic based counseling hosted by a volunteer couple. She's worried about the classes...specifically the religious questions that might arise. She keeps thinking we'll fail, lol...I told her I'll be respectful of her and the others in the class, but I won't lie when asked what I believe. I said, I think they more want to see that we've actually talked about these important topics and not just brushed them under the rug. In fact, I kind of hope for religious questions to be asked of me so that we CAN discuss this more with a mediator.

 

I think faith is very personal thing. She can believe what she wants and I can believe what I want. And we can meet somewhere in the middle and still be happy the rest of our lives. Or at least I hope so. I'm willing to give it a shot

[knapplc]

Benny, I'm not Catholic so maybe this is off base, but doesn't the Catholic church have issues with non-believers being married in a Catholic ceremony? I could swear I've heard of people being denied church weddings because they were Protestant or non-believers. Have you guys considered this as an issue? What will your fiance do if the church says no to you taking part in a Catholic wedding?

 

Or am I way behind the times on this, and it's not an issue?

[bennychico11]

Benny, I'm not Catholic so maybe this is off base, but doesn't the Catholic church have issues with non-believers being married in a Catholic ceremony? I could swear I've heard of people being denied church weddings because they were Protestant or non-believers. Have you guys considered this as an issue? What will your fiance do if the church says no to you taking part in a Catholic wedding?

 

Or am I way behind the times on this, and it's not an issue?

 

it depends on the priest and bishop I believe. I think the only requirement for most is you have to be baptized in a Christian church and agree to raise your kids Catholic.

We've actually already met with the priest. He's a really cool guy (had three bottles of whiskey sitting on his bookshelf...my kind of guy . Since I was baptized Methodist he just wanted my baptismal certificate. He even asked me if I still go to church and I said I didn't. He said I was always welcome at the Catholic church and that even if we as a family decide that Catholicism isn't for us...then that's fine. He remarked that the best working marriages he's seen have been Methodists and Catholics, lol.

 

My fiance and I did agree awhile back that if the priest refused to marry us because of my views...then we'd find some other place. She really had her heart set on getting married in the church but didn't want someone marrying us who didn't like us for us. Heck, we thought we'd be rejected from the church purely because we're living together! But he didn't seem to care.

[knapplc]

That's good news! Things have definitely changed in the Catholic church, then.

[Ratt Mhule]

Benny, I'm not Catholic so maybe this is off base, but doesn't the Catholic church have issues with non-believers being married in a Catholic ceremony? I could swear I've heard of people being denied church weddings because they were Protestant or non-believers. Have you guys considered this as an issue? What will your fiance do if the church says no to you taking part in a Catholic wedding?

 

Or am I way behind the times on this, and it's not an issue?

 

My aunt is a Catholic, but my uncle (God rest his soul) was a non-believer and they got married in a Catholic church I believe. I wasn't born when they got married, but if I remember correctly, it was in a Catholic church.

[bennychico11]

just kind of a follow up if anyone is interested:

my fiance and I had our first marriage class Sunday. It actually is a little different than I (and my fiance) thought it would be. Going into it, she told me I was supposed to be "good" and not get into any debates with anyone...lol. However, we soon realized that most of what we're going to be doing is only talking between the two of us. There really isn't any "group time". We watch a couple videos at the start of each section, separately answer questions out of a book and then go over them with our fiance.

Although it is Catholic based there frequently are interfaith couples that go through the courses. The couple leading the course wanted to stress they aren't trying to convert anyone...but it's obvious they assume everyone already is a Christian. There are questions such as "how do you think God works through each of you to make a better relationship", etc. In fact, the videos we watch are produced by the diocese of St. Louis. A lot of these I left blank. I told my fiance that I'm more interested in hearing her responses on the religious ones. We talked a bit about her wanting me to attend church more with her, what to do with the kids eventually, etc. We already live together too, so a lot of the questions of "who will do the dishes", etc. have already been figured out. We pretty much are a married couple in that sense, lol.

I kept waiting for her to kick me at certain parts during the videos. In fact, at one part they were interviewing a couple about their relationship and the husband turned toward the camera and said he wanted to address all the guys out there. He said, "I don't care how big you think you are, you're not bigger than God. And if you think you can make your marriage work without God in your life, you're severely mistaken. I tried it. It doesn't work."

I almost had to laugh, because I knew if the other people in the room weren't there, my fiance would have turned to me and said "See!" haha

We left the classes feeling satisfied. It went pretty much exactly how I assumed it would...just less group time than I figured. But my fiance was relieved it wasn't "group sharing". I explained to her that I think they do that because they know we wouldn't open up as much in a group as we would to each other.

 

We've got 3-4 more classes to go to. I can post more about those if anyone is interested in hearing it. It might help those who also are scheduled or are considering attending faith based marriage classes. This one was pretty much just an introduction class. At the end of the class the couple invited us to something called RCHI or something like that (I can't remember the exact acronym). I guess it's classes for non-Catholics to learn more about the Catholic faith. For those who are interested in becoming Catholic or those who aren't but just want to learn more. I'm going to consider maybe attending those...just to get a little more knowledge on why the Catholics do what they do.

 

Ironically, the day before we had our classes a couple door to door Evanglicals knocked on our door. He wanted to share with me why god allows suffering in the world and what the Bible has to say about it. I was kind of caught off guard because I wanted to talk to him a little bit...but my fiances parents had just arrived in town for a visit. I didn't want to be rude in front of them and start debating this guy on our door step, so I just politely said no thank you to his pamphlet and let him go. I kicked myself for at least not taking the pamphlet to read.

[Ratt Mhule]

Keep posting Benny. I'd like to hear about the process for when (hopefully) I find a fiance and attend these classes. And it is RCIA (Rite of Christian Initiation of Adults) so you were pretty close.

[bennychico11]

And it is RCIA (Rite of Christian Initiation of Adults) so you were pretty close.

 

thanks for that.

 

We had class #2 on Sunday. Only two more to go...and I'm ready for them to be over. lol. They aren't terrible, just cheesy and predictable. Sit down, watch a video, read silently in the book, answer the questions silently (they never give us enough time to finish the questions), go over the answers with your fiance, rinse and repeat. It's kind of like going through a driver's education course.

 

Anyway, this class was about "Love, Disillusionment and Joy" (basically what happens when the romance fades)..."Substance Abuse, domestic violence, gambling, etc." and then sex and sexuality. The parts that I actually did like were when we talked about trying to keep the romance alive. Since we've moved in we sometimes find ourselves in a rut of just coming home from work, complaining about our days, making dinner and sitting on the couch with our laptops or watching TV. We both agreed we need to set aside some more date nights to spend with each other. Especially when we plan to have kids down the line.

The substance abuse/violence/gambling/sex addictions was pretty straight forward since neither of us have any issue with any of those. We pretty much just answered no to the questions. Except we did have a small chat on how I'll need to stop drinking too much. Sometimes when we hang out, I think I'm still in college

Sex and sexuality was similar to the first section about keeping the romance alive. Except they (the church) defined sexuality as being romantic in a non-physical way. So, showing your love emotionally day to day. This section also touched on cohabitation. It was rather funny actually, because the priest in the video commented on how many times he sits a couple down for the first time to fill out paperwork and asks them their address. He asks the guy his and then the girl hers...and there's a silence. Then it's obvious they are living together. We found this funny because it's exactly what happened with us.

The priest in the video continued to talk about why the church frowns on cohabitation, throwing out statistics about how 50% of those people usually get divorced, etc. However, I tend to disagree with that opinion. I don't think physically living together before marriage is what causes divorces. There's other problems within the marriage...and nothing magical happens when you change addresses after you sign the marriage papers. Those problems are bound to creep up at one time or another.

 

There was another video where a woman claimed she didn't believe in god when she got married to her religious husband. She said she got in a discussion with the priest at the time before they got married. It got heated and she yelled at the priest saying, "well, I don't believe in god. So there!" And the priest responded, "That's fine. But do you believe in the person you're about to marry." And then apparently that got her thinking that if she could believe in loving her fiance, it might open her up to god's love. I almost burst out laughing. I couldn't believe that acknowledging her love for another human being was enough for her to decide in belief of a god.

 

The class ended that night with huge storm that ripped through KC. Lightning, hail, flash flooding...I wondered if it was god telling us we shouldn't be getting married! But then the weather passed

[bennychico11]

as a side note (and back to the original topic)...one of the best clips from AE a few weeks ago:

 

 

Very well said. Pretty much summed up what I've been struggling with over the past few years.

[knapplc]

We had class #2 on Sunday. Only two more to go...and I'm ready for them to be over. lol. They aren't terrible, just cheesy and predictable. Sit down, watch a video, read silently in the book, answer the questions silently (they never give us enough time to finish the questions), go over the answers with your fiance, rinse and repeat. It's kind of like going through a driver's education course.

 

Anyway, this class was about "Love, Disillusionment and Joy" (basically what happens when the romance fades)..."Substance Abuse, domestic violence, gambling, etc." and then sex and sexuality. The parts that I actually did like were when we talked about trying to keep the romance alive. Since we've moved in we sometimes find ourselves in a rut of just coming home from work, complaining about our days, making dinner and sitting on the couch with our laptops or watching TV. We both agreed we need to set aside some more date nights to spend with each other. Especially when we plan to have kids down the line.

The substance abuse/violence/gambling/sex addictions was pretty straight forward since neither of us have any issue with any of those. We pretty much just answered no to the questions. Except we did have a small chat on how I'll need to stop drinking too much. Sometimes when we hang out, I think I'm still in college

Sex and sexuality was similar to the first section about keeping the romance alive. Except they (the church) defined sexuality as being romantic in a non-physical way. So, showing your love emotionally day to day. This section also touched on cohabitation. It was rather funny actually, because the priest in the video commented on how many times he sits a couple down for the first time to fill out paperwork and asks them their address. He asks the guy his and then the girl hers...and there's a silence. Then it's obvious they are living together. We found this funny because it's exactly what happened with us.

The priest in the video continued to talk about why the church frowns on cohabitation, throwing out statistics about how 50% of those people usually get divorced, etc. However, I tend to disagree with that opinion. I don't think physically living together before marriage is what causes divorces. There's other problems within the marriage...and nothing magical happens when you change addresses after you sign the marriage papers. Those problems are bound to creep up at one time or another.

 

There was another video where a woman claimed she didn't believe in god when she got married to her religious husband. She said she got in a discussion with the priest at the time before they got married. It got heated and she yelled at the priest saying, "well, I don't believe in god. So there!" And the priest responded, "That's fine. But do you believe in the person you're about to marry." And then apparently that got her thinking that if she could believe in loving her fiance, it might open her up to god's love. I almost burst out laughing. I couldn't believe that acknowledging her love for another human being was enough for her to decide in belief of a god.

 

The class ended that night with huge storm that ripped through KC. Lightning, hail, flash flooding...I wondered if it was god telling us we shouldn't be getting married! But then the weather passed

 

Sounds like you have a good basis on which to head into marriage. Marriage is great. I'm terribly happy I got married to my wife. She's my best friend to this day. I nearly lost her a few years back, and that was a life-changing experience, and it's been hell coming back from that, but that's what you sign up for when you wed.

 

We had a perfect marriage for 12 years. Never argued, at all, for over a decade. Life happens, stuff changes, and suddenly you're not the same person you were when you got married. That's where the sober commitment comes in, and where you figure out what you and your relationship is made of.

 

Enjoy the happy times, and hopefully they never fade. But be ready for life to come knocking rudely at your door with stuff you never expected, with stuff that just knocks you on your butt. It'll likely happen some day, so don't go nuts on your wife when it does. And if she goes nuts on you, remember what it was like for you today. That helps.

[bennychico11]

Enjoy the happy times, and hopefully they never fade. But be ready for life to come knocking rudely at your door with stuff you never expected, with stuff that just knocks you on your butt. It'll likely happen some day, so don't go nuts on your wife when it does. And if she goes nuts on you, remember what it was like for you today. That helps.

 

thanks for that. I think I've realized the crux of the classes is basically telling you "sh#t's gonna happen...so watch out for it." Which I knew going into this. We just gotta realize that there's going to be more good than bad days, and not to dwell on the bad.

[huskerjack23]

as a side note (and back to the original topic)...one of the best clips from AE a few weeks ago:

 

 

Very well said. Pretty much summed up what I've been struggling with over the past few years.

Richard Dawkins saw this video when it was posted on richarddawkins.net forums and he's now been in contact with the AE crew. Who knows what will come of it but it'd be awesome if it got Dillahunty more exposure like we were talking about before.

[bennychico11]

Richard Dawkins saw this video when it was posted on richarddawkins.net forums and he's now been in contact with the AE crew. Who knows what will come of it but it'd be awesome if it got Dillahunty more exposure like we were talking about before.

 

I think I heard that in last weeks episode. That would be great if the crew there could hook with Dawkins. I really enjoy listening to Matt speak and would love to see more debates with him and other believers.

[Ratt Mhule]

Richard Dawkins saw this video when it was posted on richarddawkins.net forums and he's now been in contact with the AE crew. Who knows what will come of it but it'd be awesome if it got Dillahunty more exposure like we were talking about before.

 

I think I heard that in last weeks episode. That would be great if the crew there could hook with Dawkins. I really enjoy listening to Matt speak and would love to see more debates with him and other believers.

 

Debates are pretty pointless when it comes to religion. Obviously the callers are not going to convince this man God exists and this man is not going to convince believers God doesn't exist. Everybody has their own beliefs and that will not change. Matt does not have every answer to the universe and neither do believers. We will all find out one day if we were right or not. And we'd all HATE to be wrong.

 

I did watch that last show you posted and I gotta say the other guy was wrong about when he said we can never be friends. That is not true, I have been friends with many non-believers and I don't let my religious beliefs affect my friendships with them. We've had discussions about it, but then its over and we are still friends.

[bennychico11]

Debates are pretty pointless when it comes to religion. Obviously the callers are not going to convince this man God exists and this man is not going to convince believers God doesn't exist. Everybody has their own beliefs and that will not change. Matt does not have every answer to the universe and neither do believers. We will all find out one day if we were right or not. And we'd all HATE to be wrong.

 

Not necessarily. I think debates or discussions about religion are very beneficial. I like to know what other peoples thoughts are on the subject and I like to share mine. I don't expect to "convert" anyone and don't expect to be converted...but it helps me gain further knowledge on the subject. It helps me form my own thoughts and beliefs better. I was a believer for many years of my life. I was raised in a Christian home and had members of my extended family who were VERY religious. I questioned some teachings and religious opinions that were taught to me...but I never questioned the idea of god. Then I listened to the other side...to people like Matt...and it got me thinking more about my faith.

No one on the show claims to know every answer. In fact, I don't think any of them claim to know for certain that a god doesn't exist. They're main goal is to get people to use reason and not to accept things on faith. To question and form they're own rational thoughts on things that have been accepted as truth for so many years.

 

I did watch that last show you posted and I gotta say the other guy was wrong about when he said we can never be friends. That is not true, I have been friends with many non-believers and I don't let my religious beliefs affect my friendships with them. We've had discussions about it, but then its over and we are still friends.

 

I think that's great that you can have friendships with people outside your faith. Obviously I can do the same. I wish everyone could...but there are many who can't. Once they find you're not a believer it gets in the way of them being able to see you for you. Many want to save your soul and feel like it's their duty to do so. And many who don't even know you presuppose you're of the devil and you're a bad person. They say they'll pray for you as if your life is worthless unless they do. That they're somehow better than you because they know god. My uncle is gay and has been since I've known him. And my grandmother (a devout baptist) refuses to speak to him. He's pretty much not a part of the family because her religious dogma has told her he's going to hell.