The Abortion Dress

[Red Dead Redemption]

 

If I were so irresponsible with money that I spent so much that I needed to take bankruptcy twice so that I could go on living s happy life, I wouldn't later wear a short around advertising the fact.

How do you know she was irresponsible?

[JJ Husker]

 

 

 

Well I guess you're certainly free to feel and act that way about murder if you wish zoogs.

I'm sure not going to get anybody's face and try to make them feel bad for some choices they have made but, you have to admit (or maybe you don't) that being proud of having had multiple abortions and bragging about it with an abortion dress is taking it a bit too far. It sure is for me. I found this linked story repulsive. I used to like Plimpton as an actress in Raising Hope and the Real O'Neals...not anymore. I won't be able to watch her without thinking of her selfish abortion dress.

 

Why is killing a fetus an acceptable choice but failing to choose to be responsible with a persons reproductive activities not important? How about not getting pregnant if you don't want a child? What's wrong with that approach? They make these things called contraceptives and, the good thing is, you don't have to start a life and then kill it to prevent an unwanted birth.

 

So much judgement in this post ( and others that followed)

I had no idea you were a very close friend of Martha. Apparently you know all the details of her situation, circumstances, thoughts, options and actions at the time of her conceptions and abortions, and the time in between. Could you please share them with us?

Read the link zoogs posted in post #16, then you'll know as much about her as I do. If, after that, you still don't like what I had to say, tough sh#t.

No need to get angry, all you had to do was admit that you knew very little about the details of someone's situation before you passed judgement. Thank you for proving me right.

So you didn't read the article. Gotcha.

[JJ Husker]

 

If I were so irresponsible with money that I spent so much that I needed to take bankruptcy twice so that I could go on living s happy life, I wouldn't later wear a short around advertising the fact.

How do you know she was irresponsible?

Wait. Is this one of those trick questions like; what color was George Washington's white horse?

[Red Dead Redemption]

 

 

 

 

Well I guess you're certainly free to feel and act that way about murder if you wish zoogs.

I'm sure not going to get anybody's face and try to make them feel bad for some choices they have made but, you have to admit (or maybe you don't) that being proud of having had multiple abortions and bragging about it with an abortion dress is taking it a bit too far. It sure is for me. I found this linked story repulsive. I used to like Plimpton as an actress in Raising Hope and the Real O'Neals...not anymore. I won't be able to watch her without thinking of her selfish abortion dress.

 

Why is killing a fetus an acceptable choice but failing to choose to be responsible with a persons reproductive activities not important? How about not getting pregnant if you don't want a child? What's wrong with that approach? They make these things called contraceptives and, the good thing is, you don't have to start a life and then kill it to prevent an unwanted birth.

So much judgement in this post ( and others that followed)

I had no idea you were a very close friend of Martha. Apparently you know all the details of her situation, circumstances, thoughts, options and actions at the time of her conceptions and abortions, and the time in between. Could you please share them with us?

Read the link zoogs posted in post #16, then you'll know as much about her as I do. If, after that, you still don't like what I had to say, tough sh#t.

No need to get angry, all you had to do was admit that you knew very little about the details of someone's situation before you passed judgement. Thank you for proving me right.

So you didn't read the article. Gotcha.

What makes you think I didn't read it, and how would that disprove that you freely admitted that you knew very little about someone's situation before you first judged them?

[Red Dead Redemption]

 

 

If I were so irresponsible with money that I spent so much that I needed to take bankruptcy twice so that I could go on living s happy life, I wouldn't later wear a short around advertising the fact.

How do you know she was irresponsible?

Wait. Is this one of those trick questions like; what color was George Washington's white horse?

 

 

So you cannot demonstrate how she was irresponsible and didn't use contraception. Gotcha.

[zoogs]

Abortion is a tough topic. I understand the desire to castiage, but I hope we as a society keep moving away from that as opposed to backsliding.

(Most) of us would like to exercise some level of control in family planning, I suspect. Or at least have at some point in our lives. And as we know, both quality of both sex ed and efficacy of contraceptives weren't always at the level they're at today, and there's room to get much better.

For example, IUD use increased within 83% within the past decade, with implant use tripling (TIME, comparing 2006-10 to 2011-13). The ACA has introduced a contraceptive mandate (currently facing court challenges!) that should help further drive down the rate of unintended pregnancies -- still unfortunately high in the United States relative to our peers. The ongoing reality is not the same one that people of previous generations faced; consider that before bestowing too much confidence onto armchair pronouncements about a 45-year old actor's sexual responsibility.

Parenthood is a weighty thing, and ought to be a conscious commitment -- and not a suitable punishment for either irresponsibility or birth control failures.

 

In these conversations there's often an undercurrent of our collective eagerness to slut-shame women -- in a culture that simultaneously exalts studliness in men. It's an oft-misdirected broadside that hits a lot of women who don't deserve it in the slightest. That is what Martha Plimpton has been speaking up about, and she's not alone. This universal message that she's a (small) part of articulating is one that hopefully we can all take in, or at least try to understand.

[JJ Husker]

 

 

 

Read the link zoogs posted in post #16, then you'll know as much about her as I do. If, after that, you still don't like what I had to say, tough sh#t.

No need to get angry, all you had to do was admit that you knew very little about the details of someone's situation before you passed judgement. Thank you for proving me right.

 

So you didn't read the article. Gotcha.

 

What makes you think I didn't read it, and how would that disprove that you freely admitted that you knew very little about someone's situation before you judged them?

 

You are absolutely right. I mean how could I possibly begin to form an opinion about her feelings on abortion, women's reproductive rights, and specifically her reasons for getting an abortion unless I were to be privy to some of her very personal thoughts, words, and beliefs on such matters? Oh, wait a minute. Snap. If I recall correctly, I read about 20 some paragraphs of her personal writings on such things. And I believe I encouraged you to also read it but you were apparently dead red set on claiming I knew very little about her situation. Funny, but awkward, huh?

 

I guess you can collect your PC style points for using the word "judged" even though I have done no such thing. Judging would involve pronouncing a sentence or stating how I think she should be punished for her actions. Please show me where I have done that if you wish to continue to use words that don't actually mean what you think they should mean. It is not my job to judge her. It is however my right to form an opinion about her, which I have done with much more information than you have apparently. In fact, I probably know more about her beliefs on abortion and acceptable motives for getting one than I do about any other person on this earth, with the possible exception of myself. Funny how a mere 15 minutes of reading could've prevented someone from looking like a complete asshat who didn't have a f'ing clue what they were talking about. A little effort and knowledge can go a long ways. Try it next time.

[Red Dead Redemption]

 

 

 

 

Read the link zoogs posted in post #16, then you'll know as much about her as I do. If, after that, you still don't like what I had to say, tough sh#t.

No need to get angry, all you had to do was admit that you knew very little about the details of someone's situation before you passed judgement. Thank you for proving me right.

 

So you didn't read the article. Gotcha.

 

What makes you think I didn't read it, and how would that disprove that you freely admitted that you knew very little about someone's situation before you judged them?

 

You are absolutely right. I mean how could I possibly begin to form an opinion about her feelings on abortion, women's reproductive rights, and specifically her reasons for getting an abortion unless I were to be privy to some of her very personal thoughts, words, and beliefs on such matters? Oh, wait a minute. Snap. If I recall correctly, I read about 20 some paragraphs of her personal writings on such things. And I believe I encouraged you to also read it but you were apparently dead red set on claiming I knew very little about her situation. Funny, but awkward, huh?

 

 

Oh, wait a minute. Snap. If I recall correctly, it was zoogs that posted that article that detailed her advocacy, not you. You hadn't read that before your first post full of assumptions and shaming. It seems all your initial info was only from the OP which only said she'd had a couple abortions when she was younger. Even after zoog's article was posted you and others still implied and shamed her for being irresponsible, when neither article details what efforts she did or didn't take to not get pregnant. Funny, but awkward, huh?

 

 

I guess you can collect your PC style points for using the word "judged" even though I have done no such thing. Judging would involve pronouncing a sentence or stating how I think she should be punished for her actions. Please show me where I have done that if you wish to continue to use words that don't actually mean what you think they should mean. It is not my job to judge her. It is however my right to form an opinion about her, which I have done with much more information than you have apparently. In fact, I probably know about her beliefs on abortion and acceptable motives for getting one than I do about any other person on this earth, with the possible exception of myself. Funny how a mere 15 minutes of reading could've prevented someone from looking like a complete asshat who didn't have a f'ing clue what they were talking about. A little effort and knowledge can go a long ways. Try it next time.

 

Again, you're assuming I didn't read the article that zoogs posted, and you seem to don't remember your posts BEFORE zoogs posted that article, thus your posts are once again terribly misinformed and misleading.

 

And "judging" someone has a broader definition than just pronouncing a sentence/punishment. Funny how a mere 2 minutes of reading a dictionary could have prevented someone from.... (I'm sure you know how the rest of it goes...)

 

You like to form opinions about people based on very little information? Maybe you should try that on yourself. In your very first post in this thread, you said, "I'm sure not going to get anybody's face and try to make them feel bad for some choices they have made but,"

 

Yet that's exactly what you did when you shamed zoogs for his beliefs, by implying he condones "murder". And you do plenty of shaming in subsequent posts.

 

What is somebody called when they say they won't do something, but then they go ahead and do it, multiple times even?

 

You also referenced her "selfish" abortion dress. I"ll admit my reaction to the dress and her methods did not sit well with me, but if you had read and comprehended her blog and you would understand that her advocacy is not about being "selfish". She is speaking out for others. A little effort and knowledge can go a long ways. Try it next time. And try it without losing your temper and using profanities -- that is very telling about you as well.

[zoogs]

Hm. I think all this sniping at one another is unnecessary.

 

I"ll admit my reaction to the dress and her methods did not sit well with me, but if you had read and comprehended her blog and you would understand that her advocacy is not about being "selfish". She is speaking out for others.

Yeah, I think that's the important thing. People get driven under to the point where they're unwilling to admit or talk about it for fear of censure -- even if it's in cases generally regarded as OK such as 'good faith efforts to prevent the pregnancy'. I can see why the response to this would be a bit loud. Though I think she expresses herself more clearly in words than in a dress of controversial taste.

[Moesker]

 

 

 

 

If we can legally and morally kill a person who is brain dead (i.e., remove them from feeding tubes) then why is it immoral and should be illegal to end the existence of something that's never achieved consciousness?

I was not aware "we" could morally kill a person who is brain dead.

Also, I don't believe "achieved consciousness" is the make or break point for a whole bunch of people in this debate.

 

Some, actually a whole bunch of, people believe that life is created at the moment of conception.

Some people feel that ending a life, for whatever reason, through whatever means, is not up to us but rather should be determined by natural death. I'm not saying I am of this belief in all cases but I also sure don't think abortion should be used as simply another birth control option.

i don't have a strong opinion either way, but it does seem that consciousness, measured by some sort of brain activity, is a more reasonable point of demarcation than conception or cardiac death.

So when does consciousness begin?

 

 

I don't know, but I'm looking forward to it.

 

Gunga, gunga-lagunga.

[JJ Husker]

 

 

 

 

 

Read the link zoogs posted in post #16, then you'll know as much about her as I do. If, after that, you still don't like what I had to say, tough sh#t.

No need to get angry, all you had to do was admit that you knew very little about the details of someone's situation before you passed judgement. Thank you for proving me right.

 

So you didn't read the article. Gotcha.

 

What makes you think I didn't read it, and how would that disprove that you freely admitted that you knew very little about someone's situation before you judged them?

 

You are absolutely right. I mean how could I possibly begin to form an opinion about her feelings on abortion, women's reproductive rights, and specifically her reasons for getting an abortion unless I were to be privy to some of her very personal thoughts, words, and beliefs on such matters? Oh, wait a minute. Snap. If I recall correctly, I read about 20 some paragraphs of her personal writings on such things. And I believe I encouraged you to also read it but you were apparently dead red set on claiming I knew very little about her situation. Funny, but awkward, huh?

 

Oh, wait a minute. Snap. If I recall correctly, it was zoogs that posted that article that detailed her advocacy, not you. You hadn't read that before your first post full of assumptions and shaming. It seems all your initial info was only from the OP which only said she'd had a couple abortions when she was younger. Even after zoog's article was posted you and others still implied and shamed her for being irresponsible, when neither article details what efforts she did or didn't take to not get pregnant. Funny, but awkward, huh?

 

 

I guess you can collect your PC style points for using the word "judged" even though I have done no such thing. Judging would involve pronouncing a sentence or stating how I think she should be punished for her actions. Please show me where I have done that if you wish to continue to use words that don't actually mean what you think they should mean. It is not my job to judge her. It is however my right to form an opinion about her, which I have done with much more information than you have apparently. In fact, I probably know about her beliefs on abortion and acceptable motives for getting one than I do about any other person on this earth, with the possible exception of myself. Funny how a mere 15 minutes of reading could've prevented someone from looking like a complete asshat who didn't have a f'ing clue what they were talking about. A little effort and knowledge can go a long ways. Try it next time.

Again, you're assuming I didn't read the article that zoogs posted, and you seem to don't remember your posts BEFORE zoogs posted that article, thus your posts are once again terribly misinformed and misleading.

 

You like to form opinions about people based on very little information? Maybe you should try that on yourself. In your very first post in this thread, you said, "I'm sure not going to get anybody's face and try to make them feel bad for some choices they have made but,"[/size]

 

Yet that's exactly what you did when you shamed zoogs for his beliefs, by saying he condones "murder". And you do plenty of shaming in subsequent posts.

 

What is somebody called when they say they won't do something, but then they go ahead and do it, multiple times even?

 

You also referenced her "selfish" abortion dress. I"ll admit my reaction to the dress and her methods did not sit well with me, but if you had read and comprehended her blog and you would understand that her advocacy is not about being "selfish". She is speaking out for others. A little effort and knowledge can go a long ways. Try it next time. And try it without losing your temper and using profanities -- that is very telling about you as well.

 

 

 

 

I have not lost my temper at all. However I do get frustrated with people who seem to read one thing yet comprehend only what they wish it all meant.

 

Please show me where "I got in her face" or "tried to make her feel bad". You claim I have shamed her and others. Where? You are misconstruing my opinion with some outward actions that haven't taken place. If you don't want to know or understand my opinion on this issue, you probably should quit reading what I write. But, in the absence of that, the least you could do is to refrain from claiming I am doing things that just really aren't happening anywhere other than between your ears.

 

A couple of her statements on the issue....

"One in three women in the United States has had or will have an abortion in her lifetime. It is one of the most common realities of women’s lives. Abortion is more than a choice, and it shouldn’t be a luxury. It is a critical and essential aspect of women’s lives and health care. And it is normal. It is a fact of female human life that will never, ever go away, not under any fantastical circumstances. There will always be, for all time, as there has always been, a need for abortion care."

 

"I count myself among the millions of women throughout history and in this country and over the world who have had abortions. Me, I don’t feel one iota of shame in saying it and I’ve never been shy about it. My friends and family all know. My romantic partners have always known. I make absolutely no secret of it. We’re normal. We’re women. We have abortions sometimes. Get used to it."

 

"For context alone I will say that in my case, as is true for many women, there was nothing tragic or depressing about the circumstances surrounding my decision, and there was no guilt or remorse afterward. (There is no “post-abortion syndrome.” That is a fake, made up thing that does not exist. My situation was pretty run of the mill. I didn’t want to have kids at the time or with the people I got pregnant with. Pretty simple. Pretty straightforward. Totally okay."

 

My opinion- I don't like her position on the issue and I think her reasoning for having multiple abortions is unacceptable. Of course she doesn't give a rats ass about my opinion or what I find acceptable. She doesn't have to, that's her right. I'm not condemning her. I don't sit in judgment of her. But I do find her views, and her desire to flaunt her abortions with a special celebratory dress, disgusting and repulsive. And, this is just my opinion again but, I see no substantial difference between aborting a viable fetus, that will become a human baby if somebody doesn't go out of their way to kill it simply because it may be inconvenient in their life, or murdering a 3 month old baby because, hey, when were babies not inconvenient? Is inconvenience on a persons life the only hurdle to meet to make a life or death decision on another persons life? I sure don't think so.

[Moesker]

 

And, this is just my opinion again but, I see no substantial difference between aborting a viable fetus, that will become a human baby if somebody doesn't go out of their way to kill it simply because it may be inconvenient in their life, or murdering a 3 month old baby because, hey, when were babies not inconvenient? Is inconvenience on a persons life the only hurdle to meet to make a life or death decision on another persons life? I sure don't think so.

We agree to disagree on this as well. I don't feel a million two week old fetuses are equal to a three month old but that is just my opinion.

[JJ Husker]

 

And, this is just my opinion again but, I see no substantial difference between aborting a viable fetus, that will become a human baby if somebody doesn't go out of their way to kill it simply because it may be inconvenient in their life, or murdering a 3 month old baby because, hey, when were babies not inconvenient? Is inconvenience on a persons life the only hurdle to meet to make a life or death decision on another persons life? I sure don't think so.

We agree to disagree on this as well. I don't feel a million two week old fetuses are equal to a three month old but that is just my opinion.

 

I don't have a problem with that. There is plenty of room for disagreement on some of the details.

[Red Dead Redemption]

 

 

 

 

 

 

Read the link zoogs posted in post #16, then you'll know as much about her as I do. If, after that, you still don't like what I had to say, tough sh#t.

No need to get angry, all you had to do was admit that you knew very little about the details of someone's situation before you passed judgement. Thank you for proving me right.

So you didn't read the article. Gotcha.

What makes you think I didn't read it, and how would that disprove that you freely admitted that you knew very little about someone's situation before you judged them?

You are absolutely right. I mean how could I possibly begin to form an opinion about her feelings on abortion, women's reproductive rights, and specifically her reasons for getting an abortion unless I were to be privy to some of her very personal thoughts, words, and beliefs on such matters? Oh, wait a minute. Snap. If I recall correctly, I read about 20 some paragraphs of her personal writings on such things. And I believe I encouraged you to also read it but you were apparently dead red set on claiming I knew very little about her situation. Funny, but awkward, huh?

Oh, wait a minute. Snap. If I recall correctly, it was zoogs that posted that article that detailed her advocacy, not you. You hadn't read that before your first post full of assumptions and shaming. It seems all your initial info was only from the OP which only said she'd had a couple abortions when she was younger. Even after zoog's article was posted you and others still implied and shamed her for being irresponsible, when neither article details what efforts she did or didn't take to not get pregnant. Funny, but awkward, huh?

 

 

I guess you can collect your PC style points for using the word "judged" even though I have done no such thing. Judging would involve pronouncing a sentence or stating how I think she should be punished for her actions. Please show me where I have done that if you wish to continue to use words that don't actually mean what you think they should mean. It is not my job to judge her. It is however my right to form an opinion about her, which I have done with much more information than you have apparently. In fact, I probably know about her beliefs on abortion and acceptable motives for getting one than I do about any other person on this earth, with the possible exception of myself. Funny how a mere 15 minutes of reading could've prevented someone from looking like a complete asshat who didn't have a f'ing clue what they were talking about. A little effort and knowledge can go a long ways. Try it next time.

Again, you're assuming I didn't read the article that zoogs posted, and you seem to don't remember your posts BEFORE zoogs posted that article, thus your posts are once again terribly misinformed and misleading.

 

You like to form opinions about people based on very little information? Maybe you should try that on yourself. In your very first post in this thread, you said, "I'm sure not going to get anybody's face and try to make them feel bad for some choices they have made but,"[/size]

Yet that's exactly what you did when you shamed zoogs for his beliefs, by saying he condones "murder". And you do plenty of shaming in subsequent posts.

 

What is somebody called when they say they won't do something, but then they go ahead and do it, multiple times even?

 

You also referenced her "selfish" abortion dress. I"ll admit my reaction to the dress and her methods did not sit well with me, but if you had read and comprehended her blog and you would understand that her advocacy is not about being "selfish". She is speaking out for others. A little effort and knowledge can go a long ways. Try it next time. And try it without losing your temper and using profanities -- that is very telling about you as well.

 

 

 

 

I have not lost my temper at all. However I do get frustrated with people who seem to read one thing yet comprehend only what they wish it all meant.

I get frustrated with people who can't figure out the quote function (*snicker*)

 

Please show me where "I got in her face" or "tried to make her feel bad". You claim I have shamed her and others. Where? You are misconstruing my opinion with some outward actions that haven't taken place. If you don't want to know or understand my opinion on this issue, you probably should quit reading what I write. But, in the absence of that, the least you could do is to refrain from claiming I am doing things that just really aren't happening anywhere other than between your ears.

I've already pointed it out, but I get that you don't want to admit it. Implying that I made it up and that I think you literally got in someone's face is disingenuous, diversionary and avoidance.

 

 

I'm not condemning her. I don't sit in judgment of her.

Ummm....

 

 

That Martha Plimpton.....what a piece of sh#t person she is.

 

she is a c**t. I want her to feel shame. She should feel shame. She's a piece of sh#t. I wish her mother had aborted her.

 

I don't care for her cavalier attitude either, and I don't agree with everything she said in her blog, but I understand she is speaking out for others who can't, and the issue is bigger than her and is not about her and her abortions. The beginning of her blog was about healthcare providers denying women a reasonable and affordable opportunity to prevent unwanted conceptions. If you want to see an example if irresponsibility, there it is.

[JJ Husker]

Funny.....most of my comments were specifically about her and her abortions. Interesting that you apparently couldn't figure that out and now claim it is all about some bigger issue. Maybe try considering what it is exactly a person is saying before becoming argumentative and dillusional.

 

BTW- I didn't do sh#t with the quote function. I know how it works. I simply responded, at the end, after all of the quotes, and that is how the HB system mangled it. So you can stick your condescending snicker up your ass. And, since I know you'll have trouble here again....I'm not mad or angry. Just being extremely blunt since you seem to have such trouble with comprehension. Good day.