Guy Chamberlin

Well on the one hand, regular people have to deal with people high on drugs and potentially violent all the time, and often don't call the police because it's a child, a spouse, or a friend. Unarmed social workers walk into high-risk situations every day, assess and de-escalate the situation, and call police only in the most urgent cases. In a majority of cases, the police do the right thing. But too many times, they don't. In the police shootings we're discussing, you have to ask yourself if the officer in question -- often backed by fellow officers -- is facing a life threatening situation when they use deadly force. Before facing any review within the criminal justice system, we have guys resisting arrest being executed. Turns out not all of these are resisting arrest scenarios, either. We also have Black men and women being held to a completely different standard, and that's really the issue here. And we do have entire police departments lying -- outright lying -- to protect their own, which has been SOP for as long as can be remembered, and few officers will deny it. It's not really an analogy I was making, just a legitimate source of frustration. Where to begin? I don't know about your middle school or high school, but what the Lincoln middle class white kids called partying and wilding was technically trespassing, vandalism, theft, and class one drug use and distribution. I remember many a fall night where the Lincoln police helicopter would fly overhead, tracking 50 of us with a spotlight as we wandered the neighborhood around Seacrest Field looking for trouble. When the police showed up, you know what we did? We ran. Laughing. Because we were young and fast and knew the neighborhood. I don't know if expected sympathy from the justice system, but we got it. That's why it's worth switching perspectives here: imagine a group of teenage blacks roaming the streets of Lincoln, drunk and stoned, tossing grassbags and eggs, smashing mailboxes, knocking out streetlights with snowballs, vandalizing construction sites, etc., and facing virtually no consequences. And of course we weren't a tiny minority of troubled class yahoos. Every popular girl shoplifted like crazy. Our biggest drug dealer is now a school superintendent in Kansas. My college roommate -- who I bailed out of jail when he tapped a police officer in the sternum while insisting we had the Constitutional right to play loud music in our own home -- is the vice-president of a large data analytics firm. I haven't egged a house in years. As white guys we could grow up and laugh at how stupid we were. As Black kids, we're dead or in jail.

Context and timing does have a lot to do with it.

I'm literally saying that old white guys thinking back on their youth, who then envision themselves doing the same thing with black skin, are inclined to say "oh sh!t....we could have gotten shot for that."

I've posted this in here before. It came up when I was hanging with some old Nebraska buddies, remembering the most legendary hijinks of our youth. Almost all of these guys are Trump supporters.. They've done pretty well in their lives. We may not agree on much, but they did have to agree that had we been black in our hell-raising days, we would have been dead or in jail years ago. That's they part some people just don't get.

First, as you say, resisting arrest puts you at greater risk, but it shouldn't be a death warrant. Second, as evidence has made painfully clear, many of these incidents involve people doing nothing wrong, and the confrontation is escalated by police with faulty information, mistakenly identifying a weapon, and sometimes just being pricks. Derrick Chauvin had a history of being a prick. Thirdly, both scenarios apply more often to Black people. I mean, you literally blamed the victim in the previous post. Even with your rationale, it still feels like proclaiming "ALL lives matter." While the sentiment is true, it's being used to distract from the real issue.

I didn't mean to misrepresent what you posted, but your point seemed to be that these unfortunate incidents wouldn't happen if people didn't resist arrest and treated police more respectfully. While that may be true, the proposition is really loaded, especially given yesterday's context, and it's an argument frequently aimed at Black people, ignoring some pretty major differences in police interactions.

Do police regularly get off of charges that would land anyone else in jail? Do police habitually protect their own using resources not available to others? Do police lie on the stand, and more to the point, lacking any video proof, does a policeman win virtually every "he said/she said" account entered as evidence? Has even compelling video evidence been ignored until yesterday? Are juries reluctant to convict police, mindful that the job is stressful and a conviction might discourage future recruitment? Is there any doubt that while you consider the Chauvin verdict correct, the Chauvin verdict would not have happened if there were merely eyewitnesses recounting what they saw, up against Chauvin and fellow police witnesses assuring us the actions were valid --- which is what they tried to do, rather dishonestly? And seriously.....are you saying that because you can't recall anything like this happening since Rodney King, it doesn't happen? This isn't "my view". It's just the way it is. I get the desire to use the "one bad apple" theory, and the rightwing's attempt to switch the narrative to making black protestors the real threat, but it's pretty cruel and ignorant for anyone who genuinely wants to move forward. I could grab some stats off Google. You could, too. But I'm going with the account of an ex-policeman who writes really well. https://www.vox.com/2015/5/28/8661977/race-police-officer

This was your first post on the subject. Nothing about justice. Everything about the protestors. Going so far as to say it was all for nothing. Pretending they should have just waited quietly for a legal system that habitually screws up these verdicts. This is the ugliest take you could have on today's events. Stick around and take the heat you've already earned on this thread, Pooh. Members 3,679 3,729 posts Posted 2 hours ago Just think, all that rioting and destruction for nothing. All that summer unrest all for nothing. Maybe next time, all the BLM leaders and CNN, MSNBC anchors will wait until the justice system makes it decision before crushing business owners dreams by destroying their business’s

Well......yeah. The point is that some people want to use the worst possible example to discredit a much larger population and their justifiable goals. In case you didn't notice, the issue isn't rioting. Also to your point, the British thought the Americans were lower class thugs. True story. Another true story: Sam Adams and associate patriots were clever provocateurs. They encouraged and sometimes orchestrated the vandalizing and harassment of stores owned by Americans who sided with the British. As these escalated, it was also understood and encouraged that getting a British soldier to over-react and kill a colonist would be good for galvanizing anti-British sentiment. And that's the Boston Massacre for you. Now don't get me started on the British East India Company.

I'm not sure either, but if you study the Civil Rights movement, you'll find it didn't succeed by waiting patiently, trusting the system, and making people less uncomfortable with their grievances. If you want to go pure patriot, read how America earned its independence from Britain. Rioting, vandalism, and strategic massacres are celebrated as the cornerstone of our freedom.

The question is whether a white frat boy jacked on coke and trying to crawl out of a police cruiser would ever have a knee on his neck for nine minutes until he died. In my experience, no. I mean, Kyle Rittenhouse couldn't even get the attention of police waving a M&P 15 rifle on the street where he just killed two people. A unarmed 13 year old Black kid gets shot for reaching into his pocket. Asking Black people to be extra super respectful because they're Black is the problem, not the solution.

Both the protests and the riots came after years of similar cases where folks waited patiently (as Archy prefers) only to have the officers face zero jail time and often the barest of consequences. Time after time after time after time after time after time. The George Floyd video felt like the last straw. Even when caught in a snuff film, who wanted to bet Chauvin wouldn't skate? The protests were justified. Maybe some of the rioting, too. I mean, holy f#&%, what's wrong with this country? The looting -- as mentioned -- is the work of opportunists who work Super Bowls, police funerals, and power outages, too. Did the protests force the jury's hand for the first time in memory? Well that kinda kills the argument for remaining silent and trusting. But let's face it. If the incident hadn't been fiilmmed, Derrick Chauvin would be having cocktails right now.

They coincide with Super Bowl celebrations, too.

You may not be able to prove intent to kill, but the apparent disregard for whether Floyd lived or died, and the amount of time spent lifeless under the knee strikes me as another degree beyond manslaughter. Another way of looking at it: people guilty of manslaughter don't often have time to weigh the unfolding consequences and correct their reckless/dangerous actions, hence the lesser charge. Chauvin had 9 and a half minutes, with his own safety never in question.

These are the things and events that happen when sacred human rights are so unceremoniously & viciously stripped away from great patriots who have been badly & unfairly treated for so long. Go home with love & in peace, BLM. Remember this day forever.

I think the only remaining point of this thread is that the never-ending Portland rioting is being driven by things uniquely Portland, including a full-fledged local rioting community that lives to agitate. It's not really indicative of BLM or Antifa or a President who refuses to criticize violent protestors by name, especially in the case of Portland protestors who may not feel affiliated with any name. If you do not equate the Portland and/or larger BLM protests to the Jan 6 insurrection and other right wing physical confrontations, keep in mind that many people do as a way to make excuses for each. I just don't think both causes are equal. In no post did I suggest the rightness of the cause excuses violent and counter-productive behavior.

I'm going to guess you would hate them even more if they traveled to a precinct where none of them lived.

Last time: I don't approve of their actions. Got it? But I understand the cause they're protesting. I think that's where a majority of people land. On the other side, I think some people on the right understand and sympathize with the January 6 mob, but believe they really shouldn't have stormed the Capitol and threatened the lives of Congress people. That being said, comparing protests against systemic inequality to protests of a fraudulent election conspiracy is a false equivalency. One is profoundly more dangerous to America than the other. I have no idea why I have to explain arson in Portland and the trial in Minnesota. I don't even understand the comparison. The presumption that I speak for Antifa as a liberal pretty much demonstrates the problem, especially after multiple posts trying to make my POV explicitly clear.

Portland and Seattle have been small hotbeds for folks of a certain anarchist bent for several years There are many reasons to enjoy both cities, and people I know who live there assure me that life goes on unaffected outside the fairly tiny zone in question. There is cosplay involved, as I mentioned in my previous post.

Compare the statements Trump made when somebody wrote them up for him, and the unscripted comments he made the next day. Bottom line; every white supremacist organization endorses Donald Trump — and Tucker Carlson for that matter— because they speak their language. You may not believe this, but the Left has never considered Biden one of them, and neither does Biden. They just have more in common than the cult that has swallowed the right

well no. You’re still determined not to understand. It’s not okay to be a violent little d******d, but if reality exists, one cause is definitely more real than the other. That’s why people and politicians sided with protesters not looters, and where the entire premise of January 6 went off the tracks

True, he did not call them a$$h@!es, or address them as Dave, Justin, or Mindy, but everything you're trying to infer here is wrong: https://www.reuters.com/article/uk-factcheck-biden-condemned-antifa/fact-check-joe-biden-has-condemned-antifa-violent-protests-idUSKBN2712ZA

I was hoping you and Archy would have read the words I chose, which clearly demonstrated my lack of respect for Antifa tactics and posturing. Then when I said exactly how much I was willing to defend them, I simply pointed out that the far left was fighting against something that was verifiably real, and unjust, while the far right was fighting against a fraudulent conspiracy theory that's incredibly stupid.

There is a strain of Northwest anarchist that has long viewed itself as avenging comic book culture warriors much the way of Proud Boys and others. They are extremely small in number and role play to their own tune. I think some of them are genuinely a$$h@!es with ego issues. Joe Biden has yet to tell them he loves them and they're special. Here's how much I'll apologize for whatever you want to call Antifa: they are fighting against the inequities of police enforcement in America — a real thing. The rightwing equivalent is fighting to overturn a fraudulent election -- not a real thing.

For whatever reasons, 25%-30% of Americans have no intention of getting any COVID vaccination, although a certain percentage would do so if required or incentivized, i.e. as part of their job. That was roughly the same number when the vaccine was announced last fall as it was just prior to the J&J announcement.