ColoNoCoHusker

Thanks for narrowing that down to the 35 years or so that she was there. There are countries that were measured by the length of her tenure...

Glad you included Britt's 14 points. Most of the criticism's of it are valid but I have found it's a great conversation piece when discussing fascism and still has lots of merit. Some consider totalitarianism as a super-set which includes fascism. My view is this is a bit more of a fluid continuum rather than strict hierarchy. One piece of fallout post-WWII was an avoidance of identifying regimes as fascist. There was a lot attached to that term so politically and sociopolitically that tag carried a lot of risk. Since the end of the cold war, the term has come back in vogue. I say this as there are a lot of regime's that have not been identified as fascist that really should have. The other thing to keep in mind is the impact of internet-based technology on these points. When China took over Hong Kong, they went from straight-line Communist over to Democratic Socialist with Capitalist sectors very quickly. Had Hong Kong reverted to China in 1980 instead of 2000, EVERY Hong Kong bank would have moved its holdings out before the takeover. Fiber optic allowed those banks with billions of $ in assets under management to "wait & see". On the other end of the spectrum, eaves-dropping without people having a clue is easier than ever. Lastly, I think the rampant sexism is a function of other factors than fascism. Don't get me wrong, these regimes are sexist but if you look at gender roles in countries like Italy/Germany/Spain/etc before/after/during fascist regimes, the sexism is rampant in the culture independent of fascism. As far as Trump and his administration, so far Trump has demonstrated a complete authoritarian persona. He has also demonstrated command-control authoritarian approach to governing/decisions. I think he is trying to create a cult of personality within government agencies but nobody is getting on that train. I think he would like to be fascist, but he doesn't have the blind allegiance of those in charge of most government agencies (below the appointed positions). He is definitely trying to change that. I think his focus truly is personal financial greed and everything else is secondary. Unfortunately, his ego is his biggest "appetite" so I think he could turn here very quickly. We are in in his first week and are having a discussion about whether or not Trump is fascist, totalitarian, authoritarian or other. I think we will know the answer within 6 months. It's obviously apparent given this is a widespread conversation across the country. Keeping this conversation alive is our best chance at minimizing the self-aggrandizing talking head that is Trump.

Pre-warnings about "not being responsible for property loss", "don't speak to conservative media at the OWH", "Fuhrer Trump", etc. Ah, thx. And you are right, that is really not good... Similar to the women's suffrage protests of a hundred years ago (using property damage to create support)... Don't like the methods but worked in the past, unfortunately...

You mean our current laws or whatever it is Trump's trying to do? Because those are two very different things. For example - Trump's Muslim ban excludes countries where he has business ties. Do you agree or disagree with this selective enforcement? Do you think this is an ethics violation? I'm talking about deporting illegal immigrants. As for the so called 'Muslim ban', you could look at it from a business interest or that those countries are war zones. How do you vet a refugee from Syria for instance? It's nearly impossible. Who has expressed a problem with deporting illegal immigrants? You can look at a Muslim ban from any number of angles. The best one would be the human angle, as in, they're humans, they're suffering, if we can help then we should. It isn't impossible to vet refugees from a war zone. It just takes work. That's a small price to pay to help someone whose life is on the line. It is not an insurmountable problem, nor has it been. I have seen a few different numbers of terrorist that passed the vetting but should not have. Both sets of numbers are single-digits out of hundreds of thousands of people. We are talking on the order of 0.000007% of the total. By comparison, our judicial system WRONGFULLY convicts between 0.025% and 0.00017% of those convicted in any given year. The most conservative number is 100x as many as wrongfully passed immigration vetting. Given so many more people wrongfully convicted, should we suspend our judicial system while we determine the efficacy? It is ludicrous. I am not saying changes should not be made but to ban immigration from certain countries despite the facts is crazy.

Is this what you are asking about? Did you read the whole you/BRB/me string? I am not trying to be rude... Atbone95: "they're bluffing, and they're proving it daily." BRB: "All Teach and I are saying is that we aren't fully believing the "total bluff" comment from you when we experienced things totally different BECAUSE the school has and continues to crack down. Me: "Atbone95 exaggerated a bit, but not by much."

BRB/LOMS - Continuous improvement as a business practice is part of numerous certifications, audits, industry methodologies, etc. As you mentioned, the idea is to constantly evaluate if something can be done better. I have never seen it implemented in a way that halts the business or business function unless there is an actual egregious finding. The idea is assume success, check for failure. If something is already at 99% efficient, how do you know that unless you are tracking based on a process of continuous improvement? If you have the key performance indicators in place, the evaluation is very easy to do real-time. You are both correct from different sides of the coin, especially as comparing it back to our immigration policy ban. It could not more asinine ban based on a feeling nowhere rooted in fact.

The Greek system was held to a lower standard when I was there. The reasoning has always been the alumni. I had friends in FIJI and they seem to get away with more than other fraternities. I know two UNL chapter officers that cut all ties with FIJI after their terms. They were that disgusted with what they encountered. If that chapter was at any other University, the chapter would have had charter revoked & recolonized several times over. I do believe the Greek system can be a force that builds great leaders and citizens and has a positive impact on the community. Left unchecked, it can easily create the worst of society as well. The latter happens all too often, imo. Good Lord....if the frats would do anything like the partying they did while I was there, the entire greek system would be shut down and bulldozed. But we're not talking about partying? Or are you talking about sexism being more prevalent back then? The comment from Atbone about Farmhouse was about an incident where unfortunately a kid who had diabetes partied too much and died. I know of other frats on campus who have been shut down because of partying. When I was in college, it was like the school didn't care. I don't remember anyone dying and the kid from Farmhouse was a strange incident with his diabetes. But, full blown keg parties in houses with drunks all over the yard and stumbling down the block...music blairing...etc. I remember being at some parties in houses that reminded me of Animal House. NO WAY could they do that now......and that's a good thing. Re: Farmhouse... I hate that excuse. Yes, he had a medical condition. He was still forced to drink alcohol to a BAC well over a dangerous line. People on campus like to use it as a copout, but it isn't like it didn't happen. He's dead. That was a sad couple of months on campus. Whoa whoa whoa.....Please don't take my comments as meaning I condone what happened that night or am using that as a copout. I know families who know the kid. It's an extremely sad situation that should have never happened. My point is actually in the other direction. Things happened when I was in school that SHOULD have been cause for fraternities to be locked up and kicked off campus but weren't. The school literally would look the other way. I was refuting your comment about how the school refuses to punish. Yes, maybe Farmhouse should have been punished harder. There are other frats who have been kicked off for breaking rules. My point is the school is much more willing to punish now than they used to be. And, from what I have heard, most frats have taken notice and don't do things the way they used to do. Fair - I wasn't meaning to jump on you in an any way. I was speaking to how some people like to use that as an excuse to look the other way. We have been given some pretty strict warnings, including threats of a mass-Greek extinction if things don't improve. Then Phi Psi brands a pledge, Sig Ep ties a kid down to a bench and covers him in ketchup and mustard, another fraternity knocks a girl out cold at a party, numerous rape/sexual assault allegations.... nothing. To speak to the current perception of the university from a fraternity leader's POV: they're bluffing, and they're proving it daily. That's all I'm saying; I don't expect the FIJI decision to show any different. Branding a pledge and sexual assault should not be tolerated. But....covering a pledge with ketchup and mustard? OK....maybe they shouldn't have done it. But....not sure if that is at the same level of the others you listed. You obviously are in the middle of it right now and have totally different perspective than the rest of us. All Teach and I are saying is that we aren't fully believing the "total bluff" comment from you when we experienced things totally different BECAUSE the school has and continues to crack down. I was there right after the keg ban. The logic was a keg requires group effort where individual containers in whatever number do not. I remember going and grabbing hundreds of cases of beer but it was an individual party. I remember when I had to be the rep to IFC for the weekend party inspections. We had to be escorted by house officers; never mind we would sit at the door for almost an hour while a house officer was located. Meanwhile, we would watch kegs being taken out the back door along with all the minors. Since it was not "inside" the fraternity nothing could be done. The process tweaked slightly and has evolved but there is always a loophole left behind. List goes on of these types of examples. Yes, crack downs happened but only AFTER something very egregious and even then it is half-hearted changes. They are implemented poorly or with little oversight. What should have taken months to change has taken decades. Atbone95 exaggerated a bit, but not by much.

When the thread started, I took to my phone to find pictures of him (archived off). We ran into him & hung out at our bowl games like 3 years in row. Super awesome guy and spitting image of our actual mascot.

This probably needs it's own thread. This article does a decent job of characterizing the differences. The key in mind at least right now, is this statement: http://www.differencebetween.net/miscellaneous/politics/differences-between-fascism-and-totalitarianism-ideologies-and-their-applications/ We could easily become fascist or be moving in that direction. Only time will tell. EDIT: The difference between the two is similar to Leninist vs Stalinist Communism (or Maoist vs Stalinist). There is a ton more in common but for what differences do exist, they are marked distinctions...

The Greek system was held to a lower standard when I was there. The reasoning has always been the alumni. I had friends in FIJI and they seem to get away with more than other fraternities. I know two UNL chapter officers that cut all ties with FIJI after their terms. They were that disgusted with what they encountered. If that chapter was at any other University, the chapter would have had charter revoked & recolonized several times over. I do believe the Greek system can be a force that builds great leaders and citizens and has a positive impact on the community. Left unchecked, it can easily create the worst of society as well. The latter happens all too often, imo. Good Lord....if the frats would do anything like the partying they did while I was there, the entire greek system would be shut down and bulldozed. But we're not talking about partying? Or are you talking about sexism being more prevalent back then? The comment from Atbone about Farmhouse was about an incident where unfortunately a kid who had diabetes partied too much and died. I know of other frats on campus who have been shut down because of partying. When I was in college, it was like the school didn't care. I don't remember anyone dying and the kid from Farmhouse was a strange incident with his diabetes. But, full blown keg parties in houses with drunks all over the yard and stumbling down the block...music blairing...etc. I remember being at some parties in houses that reminded me of Animal House. NO WAY could they do that now......and that's a good thing. Re: Farmhouse... I hate that excuse. Yes, he had a medical condition. He was still forced to drink alcohol to a BAC well over a dangerous line. People on campus like to use it as a copout, but it isn't like it didn't happen. He's dead. That was a sad couple of months on campus. Partying is one thing, being wholly irresponsible with alcohol is another situation entirely. Fraternity brothers (& sorority sisters) are supposed to look out for each other and be upstanding members of the community. This level of poor judgement is entirely unacceptable. Call it hazing, call it whatever. It is not "partying". I had a friend from high school that lost his arm & a kidney from over-drinking in college. His fraternity brothers took him out for his 21st birthday. He went to a bar where the bartender was from his house; they lined up 21 shots and he did them all. He ended up around 28 shots + 4-5 monster beers. He was ~140lbs. He went back to the house, passed out, nobody checked on him for 2 days. He passed out such that he cut off circulation to his arm and stewed in his own necrosis for 2 days. He lost the kidney from BAC & necrosis getting into the blood. He was hospitalized for over 2 months but he was lucky to live. All these types of situations involve preying on the weak or someone in vulnerable situation. That is not something we should be celebrating or condoning in any manner.

Nice article, NM! Girls mental development is so much faster than boys especially through elementary school. Yet, somehow, boys perform much better in stem. That is such a glaring disconnect. While our society is not a meritocracy, our school system certainly should be...

The Greek system was held to a lower standard when I was there. The reasoning has always been the alumni. I had friends in FIJI and they seem to get away with more than other fraternities. I know two UNL chapter officers that cut all ties with FIJI after their terms. They were that disgusted with what they encountered. If that chapter was at any other University, the chapter would have had charter revoked & recolonized several times over. I do believe the Greek system can be a force that builds great leaders and citizens and has a positive impact on the community. Left unchecked, it can easily create the worst of society as well. The latter happens all too often, imo.

That was my understanding; thank you for confirming the situation.

There needs to be a finding of wrongdoing which I am a bit doubtful will occur. I personally believe the allegations against the members are true. The penalty should result in the members & fraternity demonstrating better respect for women and others different than themselves. Most fraternities have service to the community as a core aspect of their founding which I believe has been lost. As far as specifically what the penalty should be, I don't have any real good ideas for what would be fair, reasonable, and standard. Emotionally, I would be OK if they were forced to hang from a tree by their genitals while protestors pelted them with rocks. I do recognize that is extreme.

Moiraine - I've heard a very consistent version of the story from several protesters that were there as well. There's too much smoke as it were but not enough fire for any meaningful penalty...

Some ATO members are being investigated by UNL because they were also implicated by the marchers. It's in the LJS article. The article states that ATO is not being investigated as part of the Title IX investigation. Otherwise, I don't see any reference to ATO members being implicated, unless I misreading it?? This kinda alludes to it "the investigation will look at individual students, not the fraternity or neighboring Alpha Tau Omega". I took that as casting a wider net is probably safer rather than ATO members actually being implicated. Just curious, maybe I'm missing it.

Applying this logic to your business: I am going audit the books of your business. It's good practice and every company should do it. I am going to shut down your business while I ascertain whether or not your business and accounting practices follow acceptable and required methodologies. My issue with your logic is you have made no effort to know the process in place under the previous administration. You assume that because Muslims from bad areas immigrate to this country that our process is NOT constantly reviewed, you also assume it must bad; and you assume this review requires a ban on immigration to determine its efficacy. I think it's bad form and flawed on your part, as well as a disingenuous effort to remain ignorant on the situation. I'm not making the assumption that it is not constantly reviewed. I'm sorry if I have not made the effort to know all the processes of all our federal government. Apparently you have from that position on your high horse. At least we all know where to come ask questions when knowledge of our federal government's inner workings are needed. Thanks for volunteering your infinite expertise in all areas. I just did basic research that you seem unwilling to do on a topic that you consider to be important. I don't see the snarky sarcasm being necessary but that has become a common theme of yours lately when your ignorance is questioned. Huh, imagine that, I got snarky when called ignorant. All I've done is try to provide another point of view and some reasonable insight into why some of these things appear somewhat logical from outside the bash everything Trump circle jerk. Have fun in your little echo chamber. I'm out. You asked questions, they were answered with references provided, you ignored the information and then throw a Trumper tantrum when called out in the least degree. Sounds like I'm not the one in the echo chamber. Thank you again for confirming that while you feign otherwise, you'd rather deal in "alternative facts" than discuss possible truths. Enjoy your bliss...

Vicente is going to have a higher approval rating than Trump Fox's rating were probably better than Obama's, honestly. He was the first National politician in generations who prioritized improving Mexico above his own corruption. EDIT: I never thought a President of Mexico would have more integrity than a US President... I'll just leave it at that.

Applying this logic to your business: I am going audit the books of your business. It's good practice and every company should do it. I am going to shut down your business while I ascertain whether or not your business and accounting practices follow acceptable and required methodologies. My issue with your logic is you have made no effort to know the process in place under the previous administration. You assume that because Muslims from bad areas immigrate to this country that our process is NOT constantly reviewed, you also assume it must bad; and you assume this review requires a ban on immigration to determine its efficacy. I think it's bad form and flawed on your part, as well as a disingenuous effort to remain ignorant on the situation. I'm not making the assumption that it is not constantly reviewed. I'm sorry if I have not made the effort to know all the processes of all our federal government. Apparently you have from that position on your high horse. At least we all know where to come ask questions when knowledge of our federal government's inner workings are needed. Thanks for volunteering your infinite expertise in all areas. I just did basic research that you seem unwilling to do on a topic that you consider to be important. I don't see the snarky sarcasm being necessary but that has become a common theme of yours lately when your ignorance is questioned.

The media failed to include what he actually meant... "We're gonna come up with a new plan that's going to be better health care for more people at a lesser cost [for the insurance providers]."

Applying this logic to your business: I am going audit the books of your business. It's good practice and every company should do it. I am going to shut down your business while I ascertain whether or not your business and accounting practices follow acceptable and required methodologies. My issue with your logic is you have made no effort to know the process in place under the previous administration. You assume that because Muslims from bad areas immigrate to this country that our process is NOT constantly reviewed, you also assume it must bad; and you assume this review requires a ban on immigration to determine its efficacy. I think it's bad form and flawed on your part, as well as a disingenuous effort to remain ignorant on the situation.

Knapplc - I know ATO is right next door but I have not heard any allegations against them. Are you asking based on thoroughness/proximity or based on an actual allegation? FIJI's history with this sort of thing works against it unfortunately. The head office investigations of assault, underage drinking, falling from balconies exonerated the fraternity until UNL found otherwise. Honestly, if Johnny Carson wasn't an alumni, the house would have lost it's charter in the late 1980's

Two wrongs on one bike... Either bulk up current Herbie, go back to old Herbie, or use Harry Husker...

The US Immigration considers Refugee status as a specific subset of Immigrants. It further identifies Asylum status as a subset of Refugee status. These are Humanitarian classifications different than standard immigration but they roll-up into the broader immigration numbers. I think you are splitting a pretty fine hair (although I agree with your premise & reason for doing so). I did not know that about the definitions. I would imagine there will be a percentage of Syrians who stay in America, since their old lives are perhaps shattered beyond repair. There will be a lot of them who go home, though - Syria was a pretty amazing country before this war. That's where I see a difference between refugees and immigrants. Immigrants intentionally move here to stay. Refugees are, by nature, intentionally temporary. Absolutely, but the US Immigration Office vets all refugee/asylum seekers according to the immigration process outlined earlier. The assumption is they will need to contribute, earn a living, and not be a threat whether they stay & pursue citizenship or not. The only real loophole is vetting for individuals with Temporary Protected Status & asylum status occur while the person is possibly already in the US (or at least outside their home country). Refugees & other immigrants the vetting occurs before they arrive on US soil.

The US Immigration dept considers Refugee status as a specific subset of Immigrants. It further identifies Asylum status as a subset of Refugee status. These are Humanitarian classifications different than standard immigration but they roll-up into the broader immigration numbers. I think you are splitting a pretty fine hair (although I agree with your premise & reason for doing so).