Nazism Based on Marxism

[Spartness]

Those secular progressives who compare conservatives to Nazis have no idea what they are talking about. Hitler clearly was left. Progressive's socialist beliefs are a bit (edit) closer to Nazism. (Edited out video. Carlfense is correct that I contradicted myself by saying I don't trust the media but yet I do trust a You Tube video. Unfortunately, I'm unable to edit the title of this thread.)

[Spartness]

The reason I post this is you have heard far-left leaning politicians and journalists in this country call conservatives Nazis. Since when have conservatives been socialists? Since when have conservatives believed in a centralized government having complete control over the economy and having complete control over every phase of our lives? I'm not saying progressives in this country are Nazis or fascists, but they are closer to it than conservatives.

[jnkyrdoff6]

The reason I post this is you have heard far-left leaning politicians and journalists is this country call conservatives Nazis. Since when have conservatives been socialists? Since when have conservatives believed in a centralized government having complete control over the economy and having complete control over every phase of our lives? I'm not saying progressives in this country are Nazis or fascists, but they are closer to it than conservatives.

 

I can see how they could compare George W. to a Nazi, but their idea of free speech seems to be "you can speak freely as long as you agree with us." The current president is at least as bad about moving away from republicanism.

[Chef K]

The reason I post this is you have heard far-left leaning politicians and journalists is this country call conservatives Nazis. Since when have conservatives been socialists? Since when have conservatives believed in a centralized government having complete control over the economy and having complete control over every phase of our lives? I'm not saying progressives in this country are Nazis or fascists, but they are closer to it than conservatives.

 

I can see how they could compare George W. to a Nazi, but their idea of free speech seems to be "you can speak freely as long as you agree with us." The current president is at least as bad about moving away from republicanism.

Yes your quite right, conservatives have never silenced a debate due to disagreement with their philosophy. :sarcasm

[carlfense]

The reason I post this is you have heard far-left leaning politicians and journalists is this country call conservatives Nazis. Since when have conservatives been socialists? Since when have conservatives believed in a centralized government having complete control over the economy and having complete control over every phase of our lives? I'm not saying progressives in this country are Nazis or fascists, but they are closer to it than conservatives.

 

I can see how they could compare George W. to a Nazi, but their idea of free speech seems to be "you can speak freely as long as you agree with us." The current president is at least as bad about moving away from republicanism.

Yes your quite right, conservatives have never silenced a debate due to disagreement with their philosophy. :sarcasm

Exactly right. Both sides tend to be more than willing to suppress dissent. Also, both sides try to label the other as "Nazis!" It's totally ridiculous. No one is a Nazi except for Nazis. Simple enough?

[huzkerbob]

Exactly right. Both sides tend to be more than willing to suppress dissent. Also, both sides try to label the other as "Nazis!" It's totally ridiculous. No one is a Nazi except for Nazis. Simple enough?

[jnkyrdoff6]

Exactly right. Both sides tend to be more than willing to suppress dissent. Also, both sides try to label the other as "Nazis!" It's totally ridiculous. No one is a Nazi except for Nazis. Simple enough?

Hey, I'm with you guys here. I was just trying to say I can see why both sides would say that.

[Spartness]

Yes, I have also heard liberals being called it by some conservatives -- that's not right either. So I agree with you all there. What I am saying is the far-lefties like Nancy Pelosi refer to conservatives like Rush Limbough as Nazis when she and others like her have a few (not entirely) socialist ideas. They deny that Nazism and fascism is a branch of socialism and want to label it right, which is ridiculous. True conservatives are very far away from socialism of any kind.

 

I think one reason why the far left refers to conservatives as Nazis is because they have it planted in their minds that right wingers who don't agree with left-wing policies are racists. (Racism is neither left or right.) Some of the most conservative people think that anyone left of center are socialists (I don't think that is true) and therefore call them Nazis, if not communists.

[carlfense]

Yes, I have also heard liberals being called it by some conservatives -- that's not right either. So I agree with you all there. What I am saying is the far-lefties like Nancy Pelosi refer to conservatives like Rush Limbough as Nazis when she and others like her have a few (not entirely) socialist ideas. They deny that Nazism and fascism is a branch of socialism and want to label it right, which is ridiculous. True conservatives are very far away from socialism of any kind.

 

I think one reason why the far left refers to conservatives as Nazis is because they have it planted in their minds that right wingers who don't agree with left-wing policies are racists. (Racism is neither left or right.) Some of the most conservative people think that anyone left of center are socialists (I don't think that is true) and therefore call them Nazis, if not communists.

We need to get huskertim in here . . . I think he has a Poli Sci degree. If I remember right, Nazi's are extreme right wing and socialists are extreme left wing. Both nazism and socialism are commonly thought of as totalitarian . . . so you are right that they are correct there. However, Nazis emphasized the failures of communism, liberalism, and democracy.

 

Read about it on wikipedia, which states that "Nazism is considered to be a form of far right politics." http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nazism#cite_note-8

[Spartness]

Did you watch the video above, carlfense? Please do if you haven't. The video explains very clearly that Nazism is based on Marxism. Hitler and Gerbals(sp?) study Marxism and embraced many of its beliefs. They admitted that Nazism and Marxism had only a slight difference. It was when they discovered that the voters wouldn't go for it, that the Nazis changed tactics and instead developed an anti-communist platform. So that was only for political reasons.

 

Think about it. The only real difference is the Marxist doctrine is about totally nationalizing the economy while Nazism and fascism is about totally controlling it. But in reality there wasn't much difference because any private ownership in Nazism was in name only. Every phase of production in business was completely controlled by the Nazis. They told you how much money you could make. So-called free enterprise didn't have any freedoms. So what I described to you is a form of socialism (National Socialism), which is left-wing. The Wikipedia, like most of the media, is flat-out wrong. The media is not to be trusted.

 

So go ahead, carlfense, and look at that video again if you have. Draw your own conclusions. But the more you think about through other resources that explain what Nazism really was, I think you will find that I'm correct. We will talk again. God Bless.

[carlfense]

Did you watch the video above, carlfense? Please do if you haven't. The video explains very clearly that Nazism is based on Marxism. Hitler and Gerbals(sp?) study Marxism and embraced many of its beliefs. They admitted that Nazism and Marxism had only a slight difference. It was when they discovered that the voters wouldn't go for it, that the Nazis changed tactics and instead developed an anti-communist platform. So that was only for political reasons.

 

Think about it. The only real difference is the Marxist doctrine is about totally nationalizing the economy while Nazism and fascism is about totally controlling it. But in reality there wasn't much difference because any private ownership in Nazism was in name only. Every phase of production in business was completely controlled by the Nazis. They told you how much money you could make. So-called free enterprise didn't have any freedoms. So what I described to you is a form of socialism (National Socialism), which is left-wing. The Wikipedia, like most of the media, is flat-out wrong. The media is not to be trusted.

So go ahead, carlfense, and look at that video again if you have. Draw your own conclusions. But the more you think about through other resources that explain what Nazism really was, I think you will find that I'm correct. We will talk again. God Bless.

Whoa . . whoa . . . it's ok to trust some random YouTube video but not the media? Interesting. I'll be the first to admit that the media generally has some bias one way or another (depending on which network you watch). That's inevitable. However . . . I think either CNN/Fox News are far more trustworthy than YouTube.

 

I'll agree with you that wikipedia is not a good source if you are writing a paper or a legal brief . . . but it's usually more than adequate when talking on a message board.

 

And . . . no . . . the controlling of production does not imply socialism. Many forms of socialism DID involve the controlling of production but that does not mean that the mere controlling of production actually IMPLY that a certain policy is "socialist."

 

I'd tell you god bless . . . but I don't really lean that way anymore. Have a good day.

[carlfense]

You seem particularly enthralled by the video you posted, so lets look at it, shall we?

 

00:57 - the New York Times article. Interesting that you seem to denounce the "media" (which technically would include this very YouTube clip) when one of the primary sources for the video is in fact the same media you are denouncing.

 

01:10 - The video quotes the New York Times article about the Beer Hall Putsch. To the tune of ominous music (which I always associate with journalistic integrity ) the voice recites a quote from the article: "That National-Socialist Labor Party, of which Adolf Hitler is patron and founder, persists in believing that Lenin and Hitler can be compared . . . " The ominous voice/music combination trails off there and fails to complete the quote. If it had completed the quote it would have said "Lenin and Hitler can be compared and contrasted . . . " That's it? That's their source? I can compare and contrast Bo Pelini and Marylin Monroe . . . but it doesn't mean they are related in any way other than they are/were human beings.

 

01:20 - Who's the source? The ominous voice claims it is Dr. Goebbels. However, the article itself only says "Copyright the New York Times Company." I don't trust an ominous YouTube voice that tells me that the Nazi Propaganda Minister is a writer for the New York Times.

 

Note also that the video gets the facts wrong: If you pause the video and actually read the article instead of blindly listening to ominous voice guy . . . you'll see that the speaker who compared Nazism to communism (Also . . . I don't have to time to delve deeply but if you think communism=socialism you have some studying to do.) was NOT Goebbels . . . it was an earlier unnamed speaker and the claim that Nazism was similar to communism incited a riot within the Nazi party itself. Goebbels was involved in a LATER speech that we don't know the contents of.

 

01:39 "AMAZING!" Indeed . . . amazing that someone was sucked in by this drivel.

 

01:45 The video alleges that Goebbels, the Nazi Propaganda Minister, equated Nazism with Lenin's Communism. This is incorrect. The anonymous person from the New York Times article who DID make that comparison incited a riot within the party . . . apparently Nazi's didn't consider themselves communists, no?

 

2:12 - Still photos of an ominous Nazi poster that says "Hitler oder Lenin?" Oh my god . . . here it is . . . the smoking gun! Wait . . . translated that means "Hitler or Lenin?" In context, it appears that Goebbels was asking who the people preferred. In context that would be like saying a Palin or Obama? sign means that Palin and Obama have similar political philosophies.

 

2:44 - Some guy in a sweater tells us that Hitler's Nazi doctrine was based on Marxist writings. Other sources cited: none.

 

3:00 - Some guy in a khaki shirt (who the heck is he? Why should I believe him?) reminds us that it WAS called the National-Socialist Workers Party. Hmmm... interesting argument. Similarly, I guess if the Nazi party were titled the National Peace Loving Angelic Party everyone should assume that they are peace loving and angelic . . . without looking to whether their actions conform with the name.

 

3:15-4:00 - Shots of various German and Russian war time propaganda posters . . . that look frighteningly similar! However . . . hmmmm . . . those look disturbingly similar to United States war time propaganda posters. Rosie the Riveter and Uncle Sam wanting you would look right at home with this bunch of pictures. Yikes. I guess we'd better assume the United States was communist/socialist/marxist during WWII as well as Germany and Russia.

 

4:00-4:10 - A disturbingly ugly woman (Who the heck is she? Why should I believe her?) tells us that in France socialists went to Hitler and worked with him. Well that settles it . . . Hitler talked to socialists. He must be a socialist.

 

I'm sorry if this sounds overly rude. I'm trying to attack the video, because honestly, that type of internet trash is not worth the 20 minutes that I just wasted on it. If a website can't convince me with a well-reasoned and DOCUMENTED essay and they instead resort to visual tricks, no citations, and ominous soundtracks . . . well they have a pathetically weak argument.

 

Good day to you, sir.

[carlfense]

Spartness took the video down. I respect that but half of the thread is nonsensical if the video is not included. Here's the link:

 

Apparently, Spartness has backed off from supporting it so if discussion continues, keep that in mind.

[carlfense]

Those secular progressives who compare conservatives to Nazis have no idea what they are talking about. Hitler clearly was left. Progressive's socialist beliefs are a bit (edit) closer to Nazism. (Edited out video. Carlfense is correct that I contradicted myself by saying I don't trust the media but yet I do trust a You Tube video. Unfortunately, I'm unable to edit the title of this thread.)

 

Hitler was NOT clearly left. Nazism is nearly universally held to be far-right. Hitler may have supported some policies that are currently associated with the left in the modern United States such as environmentalism and anti-capitalism . . . however, he also supported policies that are currently associated with the right in the modern United States. For example, Nazis were nationalistic (patriotism? Anyone?), militaristic (nuke the bastards!), religious (elements of Lutheranism unfortunately . . . don't tell my mother), and openly homophobic.

 

Political scholars agree that the Nazi movement was a form of far right politics . . . I'm sorry if that doesn't jive with you wanting to compare modern day progressives to Hitler.

 

Anyways, as I said before, the whole thing is ridiculous. Progressives/liberals are not close to being Nazis and conservatives/tea baggers are not close to being Nazis. Only the Nazis are/were Nazis.

[Spartness]

Carlfense: How can being anti-capitalist be right wing. How can massive economic control be right wing. Right wing generally, with a few exceptions, is tied to conservatism. Nazis were opposed to conservatism, not just Communism and liberalism. Conservatism is based on a free-market system with as little regulation as possible. The Nazis were opposed to that. I doubt all political scholars agree that Nazism is far right. Maybe liberal ones do. Wasn't there plenty of militarism in the Soviet Union? The Nazis apparently combined Lutherism with paganism, but it has been said, including in the Wikipedia, that the Nazis were generally anti-religious. Sorry, I can't agree with you.

An example of a right-wing dictatorship perhaps would be Iran and when the Taliban was in power in Afghanistan. Islamic law and the law of the state appear to be all one. (Edit: Thank you Carlfense for not personally attacking me. It's so easy to do, and you took the high road. )