Failed Wisconsin Recall

[Ziggy]

Anyways, I think the recall was a total waste of time and a total BS move by the minority in a state who werent happy that the person democratically elected planned to do what he promised during the election.

You must really hate the U.S. Senate.

 

I actually do hate the way our Government works in the present. Politicians are too worried about getting reelected to make any real progress for change, the minority in congress are so caught up in getting everything their way they never see the oppurtunity to comprimise and move onto the next important issue. No longer do we have 3 clear branches of government with checks and balances, but really only have 2 the Majority and the Minority who only know how to fight and never solve anything. Sometimes the minority needs to accept alot of what the majority wants and sometimes the majority needs to give up something in order to get shi* done. I think most people would agree.

[carlfense]

Anyways, I think the recall was a total waste of time and a total BS move by the minority in a state who werent happy that the person democratically elected planned to do what he promised during the election.

You must really hate the U.S. Senate.

 

I actually do hate the way our Government works in the present. Politicians are too worried about getting reelected to make any real progress for change, the minority in congress are so caught up in getting everything their way they never see the oppurtunity to comprimise and move onto the next important issue. No longer do we have 3 clear branches of government with checks and balances, but really only have 2 the Majority and the Minority who only know how to fight and never solve anything. Sometimes the minority needs to accept alot of what the majority wants and sometimes the majority needs to give up something in order to get shi* done. I think most people would agree.

I certainly agree. +1

[Excel]

Anyways, I think the recall was a total waste of time and a total BS move by the minority in a state who werent happy that the person democratically elected planned to do what he promised during the election.

You must really hate the U.S. Senate.

 

I actually do hate the way our Government works in the present. Politicians are too worried about getting reelected to make any real progress for change, the minority in congress are so caught up in getting everything their way they never see the oppurtunity to comprimise and move onto the next important issue. No longer do we have 3 clear branches of government with checks and balances, but really only have 2 the Majority and the Minority who only know how to fight and never solve anything. Sometimes the minority needs to accept alot of what the majority wants and sometimes the majority needs to give up something in order to get shi* done. I think most people would agree.

 

Explain.

[Ziggy]

Oh come on Bucky, the outside influence on almost every important election is standard. And I don't see how a minority elects anyone, I mean come on its straight forward math, if Wisconsin is populated by so many people who are agaisnst Scott Walker and his policies than how could he win the recall election by a clear majority vote. Your views on the political reality of this state appear dated and lacking any factual evidence.

[Excel]

Oh come on Bucky, the outside influence on almost every important election is standard. And I don't see how a minority elects anyone, I mean come on its straight forward math, if Wisconsin is populated by so many people who are agaisnst Scott Walker and his policies than how could he win the recall election by a clear majority vote. Your views on the political reality of this state appear dated and lacking any factual evidence.

 

What I stated wasn't a view it was a fact. A minority of Wisconsinites elected Scott Walker. Only 23% of the State voted for him.

 

The outside influence in this election was elevated for the simple fact that it was the only major election occurring in the nation at the time. Had there been almost anything else going on Walker wouldn't have raised near the funds and had he not run in an off year election he would not be Governor in the first place.

[Ziggy]

Anyways, I think the recall was a total waste of time and a total BS move by the minority in a state who werent happy that the person democratically elected planned to do what he promised during the election.

You must really hate the U.S. Senate.

 

I actually do hate the way our Government works in the present. Politicians are too worried about getting reelected to make any real progress for change, the minority in congress are so caught up in getting everything their way they never see the oppurtunity to comprimise and move onto the next important issue. No longer do we have 3 clear branches of government with checks and balances, but really only have 2 the Majority and the Minority who only know how to fight and never solve anything. Sometimes the minority needs to accept alot of what the majority wants and sometimes the majority needs to give up something in order to get shi* done. I think most people would agree.

 

Explain.

 

Name one branch that isnt constantly fighting between Republican and Democratic control. Each branch is also constanly pulling power away from each other in a constant attempt to control the power in the country. The Presidents want to grab power and control, the Courts want to alter laws to fit their personal political beliefs, and Congress is so concerned with constantly fighting with itself to realize how much power they have lost to the other two branchs.

[Excel]

It's still three branches with clear checks and balances. The Constitution didn't shrivel up and fly away.

 

None of what you mentioned is new to our system. It's been this way for the majority of our history.

[Ziggy]

Oh come on Bucky, the outside influence on almost every important election is standard. And I don't see how a minority elects anyone, I mean come on its straight forward math, if Wisconsin is populated by so many people who are agaisnst Scott Walker and his policies than how could he win the recall election by a clear majority vote. Your views on the political reality of this state appear dated and lacking any factual evidence.

 

What I stated wasn't a view it was a fact. A minority of Wisconsinites elected Scott Walker. Only 23% of the State voted for him.

 

That goes for 95% of every election in the US. Just because voter turn out isnt 100% only shows that not everyone voted. A majority of people who voted elected Scott Walker. Saying that a minority elected him, then what about the loser, did he lose by a major minority? It doesnt make sense because in order to win the election you need a majority of voters.

[Excel]

Oh come on Bucky, the outside influence on almost every important election is standard. And I don't see how a minority elects anyone, I mean come on its straight forward math, if Wisconsin is populated by so many people who are agaisnst Scott Walker and his policies than how could he win the recall election by a clear majority vote. Your views on the political reality of this state appear dated and lacking any factual evidence.

 

What I stated wasn't a view it was a fact. A minority of Wisconsinites elected Scott Walker. Only 23% of the State voted for him.

 

That goes for 95% of every election in the US. Just because voter turn out isnt 100% only shows that not everyone voted. A majority of people who voted elected Scott Walker. Saying that a minority elected him, then what about the loser, did he lose by a major minority? It doesnt make sense because in order to win the election you need a majority of voters.

 

It shows voter apathy in an off year special election and it's worth mentioning. To say that Governor Walker was chosen by a majority of citizens is simply untrue.

 

As far as it taking a majority of voters to win an election you're also mistaken. Rules vary.

 

Adams, Hayes, Taylor, Polk, Buchanan, Lincoln, Harrison, Garfield, Cleveland, Wilson, Truman, Kennedy, Nixon, Clinton and Bush all say hi.

[Ziggy]

It's still three branches with clear checks and balances. The Constitution didn't shrivel up and fly away.

 

None of what you mentioned is new to our system. It's been this way for the majority of our history.

 

Um ok.

[Excel]

It's still three branches with clear checks and balances. The Constitution didn't shrivel up and fly away.

 

None of what you mentioned is new to our system. It's been this way for the majority of our history.

 

Um ok.

 

Well you stated that our fundamental structure of Government no longer exists, that isn't true. Its actors may pervert their duties but the structures are there and they continue to function, quite well really.

[Ziggy]

Our presidental election is whats known as a democratic republic election, the governers election is a democratic election. So apples to oranges there. And you are correct that an election that doesnt co-exist with the presidental election is historically going to have a low voter turn out. But the fact that a recall was granted and the people calling for a recall couldn't summon the required majority vote to rid the state of Walker is telling regardless of how you twist the words around. Walker won a democratic election twice with a majority of votes in what you call a predominatly progressive/liberal state considering all the negitive press he got nationally and locally from the union fiasco.

[Ziggy]

It's still three branches with clear checks and balances. The Constitution didn't shrivel up and fly away. None of what you mentioned is new to our system. It's been this way for the majority of our history.

Um ok.

Well you stated that our fundamental structure of Government no longer exists, that isn't true. Its actors may pervert their duties but the structures are there and they continue to function, quite well really.

 

What I said was that the government is to busy fighting for power to be nearly as effective as they could be. How well our government runs is a testiment to the government workers not the people in the 3 main heads of government. Also the power shift from a shared national/state power is dramatic. Anyways, my agrument was not that the government is failing, but that the top is more worried about personal political beliefs than about getting whats done for the betterment of our nation.

[Excel]

Our presidental election is whats known as a democratic republic election¹, the governers election is a democratic election. So apples to oranges there. And you are correct that an election that doesnt co-exist with the presidental election is historically going to have a low voter turn out. But the fact that a recall was granted and the people calling for a recall couldn't summon the required majority vote² to rid the state of Walker is telling regardless of how you twist the words around. Walker won a democratic election twice with a majority of votes in what you call a predominatly progressive/liberal state³ considering all the negitive press he got nationally and locally from the union fiasco.

 

1. Known to you. I've never seen that term.

2. A Majority is not required in Wisconsin only a simple plurality. Get "Majority" out of your head. I used Presidents because that is the office with which most are familiar however many, perhaps even most offices, do not require a majority. Neither Nebraska nor Maryland require it in state elections, see 1994 for NE and 1976 for MD. The only state that I know of that requires majorities is Louisiana.

3. Wisconsin, throughout its history, has been known as such. It's the state founded by 48'ers that gave us the original Republican party, the La Follettes, the Milwaukee labor riots and the Sterling Hall bombing. It's a liberal state anyway you want to cut it. 2010 was an anomaly and the tide is already coming back in with this week's election and the Senate changing hands.

[Ziggy]

I was only stating that the US presidental election is won not by how many votes it gets from the public but how many electoral college votes they get. If we had a true democracy then the candidite with the most votes in the general election would win. But since we are a democratic republic, or a federal republic. Stating that our presidental election is a democratic republic election is calling it what it is. Not sure why you would argue this.

 

A majority has many different meanings...anyways, a majority was required in the Wisconsin election because there was 2 candidates up for election, so a majority of people who voted would allow a candidate to win. It is kind of silly your fighting about this as well.

 

I will take your word on the last point, I know almost nothing of Wisconsin's political history, or its current make of as of today. I was pointing out my perception from the outside observer (me) which included your insider information stating that the state is a traditional blue state. The fact that a Republican of such a distinct opposite belief style to even Wisconsin Republicans (you said that as well) would win the general election, and then even win the recall election is a pretty big deal.