Syria

[carlfense]

Is that what passes for an enormous foreign policy victory to you?

Given the cost, absolutely. Can you come up with an equally significant foreign policy victory from the last decade that was achieved at a similar cost?

What would the cost have been?

Virtually nothing.

So we saved virtually nothing?

No. It cost us virtually nothing.

[Mavric]

No. It cost us virtually nothing.

I agree. Thus, I asked what the cost would have been, i.e., what costs would have been incurred had we attacked Syria?

[carlfense]

Thus, I asked what the cost would have been, i.e., what costs would have been incurred had we attacked Syria?

So you're attempting to weigh real world benefits against alternative history costs?

 

Have you come up with any other victories achieved at such little cost yet?

[Mavric]

Thus, I asked what the cost would have been, i.e., what costs would have been incurred had we attacked Syria?

So you're attempting to weigh real world benefits against alternative history costs?

How else are you claiming how much we saved?

[carlfense]

How else are you claiming how much we saved?

You're going to have to explain what you mean . . .

[Mavric]

There is quite a difference between a "good thing" and a "huge foreign policy victory."

So your quibble is with the description of the size of the victory?

It depends on what you count as a victory. I didn't get hit by a bus on the way to work this morning, was that a victory?

I'm glad that we (apparently) agree that this is a victory. I'll have to respectfully disagree that it's similar to your survival this morning.

No, you're apparently agreeing that there is a difference between something good that happens and it being a victory.

[carlfense]

There is quite a difference between a "good thing" and a "huge foreign policy victory."

So your quibble is with the description of the size of the victory?

It depends on what you count as a victory. I didn't get hit by a bus on the way to work this morning, was that a victory?

I'm glad that we (apparently) agree that this is a victory. I'll have to respectfully disagree that it's similar to your survival this morning.

No, you're apparently agreeing that there is a difference between something good that happens and it being a victory.

Not really. My disagreement is regarding scale rather than category.

[walksalone]

How can we win when there's nothing for us to gain?

 

And it's the middle east, there isn't anything as victory, just a temporary advantage...

[Mavric]

How else are you claiming how much we saved?

You're going to have to explain what you mean . . .

Sorry. Your post about cost was on the previous page and I had it in my head you were talking about saving a cost by not having to take action. My apologies.

[Mavric]

How can we win when there's nothing for us to gain?

 

And it's the middle east, there isn't anything as victory, just a temporary advantage...

This.

 

As I've said, it's good assuming he turns over his chemical weapons. But the effect this has on the situation is basically nothing and may end up being worse that literally doing nothing because the 1% of people that would have been attacked with chemical weapons will now simply be attacked with some other sort of weapon and we are tying our own hands by saying we won't get involved so Assad would then be free to do as he pleases with basically no threat of outside intervention.

[carlfense]

. . . Unless there are U.N. personnel there making sure that the weapons are handed over, thats when this will be a "win". . . .

This has fallen off the radar a bit with the hard hitting coverage of the great federal land grab out in Nevada . . .

With its latest deadline days away, Syria is close to eliminating its stockpile of chemical weapons, monitors said Tuesday, an improbable accomplishment in the midst of civil war that is likely to diminish further the possibility of international intervention.

 

After a slow start that prompted U.S. accusations of stalling, the government of President Bashar Assad has shipped almost 90% of its chemical weapons materials out of the country, raising hope that it can finish the job by Sunday.

 

. . .

 

Syria did miss a couple of earlier deadlines, but declared that it could remove the arsenal by April 27. The shipment Tuesday means that 86.5% of its toxic weapons material has been removed, according to a statement from the Organization for the Prohibition of Chemical Weapons, the Hague-based group overseeing the destruction of the stockpile.

 

That includes 88.7% of the 700 metric tons of the most toxic chemicals, among them mustard gas and precursor materials for the nerve agents sarin and VX.

http://www.latimes.c...y#ixzz2zjbK81Qa

 

Impressive foreign policy victory for the US. No shots fired. No US lives lost. . . .and 700 metric tons of chemicals surrendered by a regime that was willing to use them against its own populace.

 

Well done. Well done.

[rawhide]

100k+ people killed in this Pro-Assad vs Rebel action thus far.

200-300 killed by sarin attacks.

 

http://www.reuters.c...EA3L11I20140422

 

 

I thought it was only attorneys that loved loopholes.

[carlfense]

100k+ people killed in this Pro-Assad vs Rebel action thus far.

200-300 killed by sarin attacks.

 

http://www.reuters.c...EA3L11I20140422

 

 

I thought it was only attorneys that loved loopholes.

I'm continually surprised that some won't acknowledge an objectively good thing for the United States (and the rest of the world, for that matter) just because it might reflect positively on a given politician.

 

No one is saying that this fixes Syria or solves all of the world's problems. That doesn't mean that this isn't a big deal. It is.

[rawhide]

Since 2011, the 100k dead and 2million refugees probably don't have such a glowing appraisal of our foreign policy.

[carlfense]

Since 2011, the 100k dead and 2million refugees probably don't have such a glowing appraisal of our foreign policy.

I didn't say that they did. On the merits, is this chemical weapons news good news or not? If your response is some version of "but bad things still happen!" you're trying too hard.

 

Realpolitik. To at least some extent.