Liberty Amendments

[tschu]

You can register by mail...

 

In some states, you can even register online!

 

I am in full agreement that the voter registration process should be as easy as possible, or even automatic. There is still always going to have to be a way to make sure that you are registered to vote in the precict that you actually live in, so this step in some form is necessary, but yeah we should definitely make it as easy as possible.

[BigRedBuster]

You can register by mail...

 

In some states, you can even register online!

 

I am in full agreement that the voter registration process should be as easy as possible, or even automatic. There is still always going to have to be a way to make sure that you are registered to vote in the precict that you actually live in, so this step in some form is necessary, but yeah we should definitely make it as easy as possible.

One part I have always scratched my head about is how do you catch someone if they do register as 100 dead people and spend the day going around and voting?

[BigRedBuster]

 

 

 

If there is no real purpose for voter ID laws, yet Republicans claim there is, why do you suppose they are on this hobbyhorse--the one that will affect many poor or uninformed voters in targeted precincts on election day (e.g. Ohio, a swing state, where students would not even be able to use a student ID card)--and not, say, one of a million other issues of actual substance? Don't be naive.

you have absolutely no ability to look at an issue without political party hackery.

 

You can hypothesize all you want about the republican motives. That has nothing to do with my comments that just the simple fact that a voter ID would be required would suppress voters.

 

In another thread it is being proposed that all employees must go through the e-verify system. They must verify who they are and that they are citizens.

 

Why isn't that looked at as discriminating against poor minorities? It's basically doing the same thing. Why? Because it's simple for the person to do and it doesn't discriminate.

 

Now. One party has poor minority votes wrapped up right now and they will do anything to keep those votes. How? By scaring them into thinking every issue the other side proposes will hurt them.

 

It has nothing to do with the validity of the issue.

 

It has everything to do with keeping power with the help of poor minorities.

This is getting a little silly, but hell, if all you wanted to hear was it would be theoretically possible to do a voter ID system without suppressing voters, okay. Great, grand, wonderful. It's also possible to build a Great Wall of America w/ a moat across the southern border to stop immigrants from coming in.

 

But the point here is not what's possible; it's what's practical and reasonable and necessary. The GOP is the only party that believes this measure is necessary, not because we have rampant voter fraud in this country, but because they know their nefarious schemes will drive down voter turnout in unfavorable precincts. It's not like my position is theoretical. You keep trotting out the "scare tactics" and partisan lines like I haven't already addressed them. It's almost as if you think the Republicans have some pure motive for dying on this hill. You have not even attempted to make a case for why this would be necessary, and it's not hard to imagine why. Accept the facts, then move on.

 

And the last line actually made me chuckle. Yes, the Democratic party is interested in gaining power. What is that supposed to be, some kind of discovery? Did you come up with that all by yourself? Both parties vie for power. Democrats tend to do it through outreach and programs that benefit the poor, minorities, women, etc. You know, winning votes by proposing policies your constituency groups approve of. I believe that has something to do with . . . oh, what's the word . . . democracy.

LOL....so, Dems have constituents that want them to do certain things and republicans don't.

 

Wow....if republicans don't have constituents maybe we have found proof of voter fraud.

 

Another thing I find funny is that I'm sure you would say the Republican Party uses scare tactics telling their constituents that Dems want to take away your liberties and freedoms. You, I'm sure, would say they are a horrible group for saying that.

 

However, you seem to be fine if and when Dems use the same type of scare tactics making poor minorities believe everything republicans/conservatives do is because they hate poor minorities.

 

Both use scare tactics to gain power. It's a lot easier than actually debating issues.

[Husker_x]

 

 

 

If there is no real purpose for voter ID laws, yet Republicans claim there is, why do you suppose they are on this hobbyhorse--the one that will affect many poor or uninformed voters in targeted precincts on election day (e.g. Ohio, a swing state, where students would not even be able to use a student ID card)--and not, say, one of a million other issues of actual substance? Don't be naive.

you have absolutely no ability to look at an issue without political party hackery.

 

You can hypothesize all you want about the republican motives. That has nothing to do with my comments that just the simple fact that a voter ID would be required would suppress voters.

 

In another thread it is being proposed that all employees must go through the e-verify system. They must verify who they are and that they are citizens.

 

Why isn't that looked at as discriminating against poor minorities? It's basically doing the same thing. Why? Because it's simple for the person to do and it doesn't discriminate.

 

Now. One party has poor minority votes wrapped up right now and they will do anything to keep those votes. How? By scaring them into thinking every issue the other side proposes will hurt them.

 

It has nothing to do with the validity of the issue.

 

It has everything to do with keeping power with the help of poor minorities.

This is getting a little silly, but hell, if all you wanted to hear was it would be theoretically possible to do a voter ID system without suppressing voters, okay. Great, grand, wonderful. It's also possible to build a Great Wall of America w/ a moat across the southern border to stop immigrants from coming in.

 

But the point here is not what's possible; it's what's practical and reasonable and necessary. The GOP is the only party that believes this measure is necessary, not because we have rampant voter fraud in this country, but because they know their nefarious schemes will drive down voter turnout in unfavorable precincts. It's not like my position is theoretical. You keep trotting out the "scare tactics" and partisan lines like I haven't already addressed them. It's almost as if you think the Republicans have some pure motive for dying on this hill. You have not even attempted to make a case for why this would be necessary, and it's not hard to imagine why. Accept the facts, then move on.

 

And the last line actually made me chuckle. Yes, the Democratic party is interested in gaining power. What is that supposed to be, some kind of discovery? Did you come up with that all by yourself? Both parties vie for power. Democrats tend to do it through outreach and programs that benefit the poor, minorities, women, etc. You know, winning votes by proposing policies your constituency groups approve of. I believe that has something to do with . . . oh, what's the word . . . democracy.

LOL....so, Dems have constituents that want them to do certain things and republicans don't.

 

Wow....if republicans don't have constituents maybe we have found proof of voter fraud.

 

Another thing I find funny is that I'm sure you would say the Republican Party uses scare tactics telling their constituents that Dems want to take away your liberties and freedoms. You, I'm sure, would say they are a horrible group for saying that.

 

However, you seem to be fine if and when Dems use the same type of scare tactics making poor minorities believe everything republicans/conservatives do is because they hate poor minorities.

 

Both use scare tactics to gain power. It's a lot easier than actually debating issues.

 

 

If you want to change the subject to the Republican platform regarding constituent groups it represents the interests of (like big business, which thanks to the Tea Party and the government shutdown it may even lose), I'd be more than happy to shift the conversation in that direction. Scare tactics are inherent to sloganeering politics. That's not what is happening in this conversation, and it's irrelevant to the voter ID issue. As I've already demonstrated, there is no actual reason for Republicans to pretend we need a voter ID system. You retorted that it would be possible to do one anyway, despite its uselessness. I grant the point that a useless voter ID system could be implemented.

 

The real point is this: why are Republicans so fixated on these voter ID laws despite the fact that they have never been shown to be necessary?

 

You have no answer. You have not attempted to give an answer, or explain the motives of Republicans. So I'll ask you directly, will you or will you not answer the question italicized above? If not, don't dodge, duck, dip, dive and dodge; just remove yourself from the conversation.

 

In the meantime, I'll answer it for you: they are fixated on this nonissue because they know it will mainly target younger and poorer voters in swing states. Republicans offer nothing to the Latino voting bloc, the black voting bloc, and especially the young (18-30) voting bloc (failure to address gay rights, student debt, or climate change)--part of the various constituencies Democrats win handily election after election, the constituencies Republicans know based on sheer scientific fact will explode in size over the next century. They cannot offer anything to these blocs without it being a direct affront to their lunatic fringe base and their shills in the media like Mark Levin. What I just said is not controversial, it's not a scare tactic, or as Newt Gingrich is fond of saying, "It's not a theory." See what happens to a relative moderate like Marco Rubio when he co-sponsors the most conservative immigration reform policy possible.

 

On the bolded point, where did I say that? Why are you putting words in my mouth? Why can't you just stick to the issue without resorting back to your talking points? Probably because . . . you're a conservative, aren't you?

[Husker_x]

Here's an article from the NYT today about this issue. Read it and weep.

 

http://www.nytimes.com/2014/07/06/us/college-students-claim-voter-id-laws-discriminate-based-on-age.html

[BigRedBuster]

You are so cute when you get riled up about something I'm not saying.

 

You ask why I haven't given an answer to why the republicans are asking for this if it's not about disenfranchising voters.

 

Ummmm....I'm not here defending republicans. In fact, u despise the Republican Party right now. I've made that pretty clear on here.

 

You are going to have to go ask a republican those questions. I'm not one so I'm not going to answer for them.

 

My only point is that it is possible to have voter ID without disenfranchising voters. I'm not saying it's necessary or even advocating for it. All I've said is that one statement about it. Now, others have admitted its possible. It's funny how you continue to try to make my comments into something they aren't and you get do riled up about it.

 

It's also funny when you get do worked up when democrats are criticized.

[Junior]

My only point is that it is possible to have voter ID without disenfranchising voters.

 

Yes, it is possible. The with the ways it is currently being implemented this is not the case, however.

[BigRedBuster]

 

 

My only point is that it is possible to have voter ID without disenfranchising voters.

Yes, it is possible. The with the ways it is currently being implemented this is not the case, however.

Never have said anything different.

[Junior]

 

 

My only point is that it is possible to have voter ID without disenfranchising voters.

Yes, it is possible. The with the ways it is currently being implemented this is not the case, however.

Never have said anything different.

 

 

Nope, I'm with you. I've always been surprised that there wasn't some sort of voter ID law. The problem with implementing it is that great care and effort must be taken to be inclusive and complete. The problems I see with it are that the people pushing the voter ID laws also don't want to spend government money on anything. So I don't see how they can do it properly. And in fact, they don't. Randomly purging voter rolls and instituting laws with only months before elections in a clear effort to suppress certain voting bases.

 

I think you and I are in agreement on the issue, other than you didn't like calling a fee for a voter ID a poll tax. Which I think it clearly is.

[BigRedBuster]

No. I think you misunderstood me in the poll tax issue. If there is a fee for the ID...yes...it's clearly a poll tax. However, I find that argument not worthy because it is simple to make the ID free.

[Junior]

No. I think you misunderstood me in the poll tax issue. If there is a fee for the ID...yes...it's clearly a poll tax. However, I find that argument not worthy because it is simple to make the ID free.

 

Gotcha. I did misread and/or misunderstand.

[tschu]

There's only one person that's "riled up" here and it certainly isn't myself, X, or Junior

[Husker_x]

You are so cute when you get riled up about something I'm not saying.

 

You ask why I haven't given an answer to why the republicans are asking for this if it's not about disenfranchising voters.

 

Ummmm....I'm not here defending republicans. In fact, u despise the Republican Party right now. I've made that pretty clear on here.

 

You are going to have to go ask a republican those questions. I'm not one so I'm not going to answer for them.

 

My only point is that it is possible to have voter ID without disenfranchising voters. I'm not saying it's necessary or even advocating for it. All I've said is that one statement about it. Now, others have admitted its possible. It's funny how you continue to try to make my comments into something they aren't and you get do riled up about it.

 

It's also funny when you get do worked up when democrats are criticized.

 

 

Ain't my first rodeo, cowboy. You can bait with some softball browbeating ad hominem, but clearly you've not been at this exchange of ideas thing long. So you're not a conservative, you don't even advocate for a voter ID system (which we've all agreed is possible; evidence that you don't actually read my posts), and you don't think the dems are misrepresenting the sinister Republican proposals currently on the table. Okay then. You've joined us in reality. Welcome.

[BigRedBuster]

It's funny how Junior obviously understands what I'm saying but you can't.

[Husker_x]

It's funny how Junior obviously understands what I'm saying but you can't.

 

Pal, quit embarrassing yourself.