Landlord

It's a little too easy to dismiss a perspective if you turn it into an overexaggerated caricature like that.

I know I've been arguing against this point frequently in here lately (hey, I enjoy the sport of sparring ideas more than I actually HOLD them), but the progressive left is going to get Trump re-elected. It's becoming painstakingly obvious. The people I know who are the most concerned with PoC, LGBTQ+, the disadvantaged and marginalized, are also the ones saying s#!t like, "I will never vote for a rapist." I'm not sure how one can make a show to care for gay and black people, then be so oblivious to their own privilege that they would rather sanctimoniously feel real good about themselves instead of vote to reduce the amount of harm that will befall the most vulnerable of us. So what if Biden is actually a rapist? Still have to vote for him. As knapp said, at least this time, because this election is different. Plug your nose, acknowledge who it is you're voting for and how you don't approve, and do it anyway because people less fortunate than you need it.

No need to be pedantic. The answer is that you can make a lot of money (across varying degrees of scale) off a very small irrelevant number of people. 10,000 people tithing you 10% of their income is 30 million a year. That could still be an extremely fringe, out there idea with a miniscule impact or relevance in the world. This guy brainwashes vulnerable people of a belief that specifically if they give him their money, they will be healed. His income is as simple as telling people to give him money and then having them do it.

You could get 1,000 Patreon followers to pay you $7 a month for a podcast/show/whatever. That's getting close to six figure income with 1,000 people. Out of 300 million in the country or 7-8 billion in the world. It's not hard to make buckets of money and still be fringe.

this is Chippewaboard now

dont feed the troll

Conversely, everyone else didn't care about Obama golfing but loves to bring up Trump golfing. Everyone calling each other hypocrites

Not trying to argue with you, just providing an article that suggests some amount of subtle maneuvering by Obama, when according to your own words, "Nothing [you've] read suggests this at all." This article does indeeed suggest it at least a little bit.

https://www.politico.com/news/2020/04/09/barack-obama-joe-biden-2020-campaign-178115

I think the Dems would rather lose to Trump than have Bernie win, at the very least. Obviously they'd prefer Biden win over Trump. But they've either got something else planned, or they're stupid and out of touch enough to believe that Biden is a lock.

The DNC has already proven itself out of touch with voters and misguided in actually fixing a primary before. If they can mold Biden and use him as a mule or a bandwagon to protecting their own interests, then yes, absolutely.

That is far from the only reason. Wide swaths of progressives are worried/convinced he has no chance to win.

It's no more self defeating than shaming people for not voting for one of the two major party candidates because nobody else can win. There might be more than enough people to vote Sanders or someone third party or independent and have them win if they don't have the attitude that the only mature right option is to vote for Biden. The attitude of not voting against Trump is the same as voting for Trump encourages people to give up, compromise, and actively support a turd sandwich. Yes, go out and vote like your vote matters. Vote for someone you can actually support. Someone you're proud to vote of. It's your vote, it matters, vote with your conscience and don't be an accessory to a broken system everyone is trying to shame you into. How do you like it thrown back at you?

There's a number of built in fallacies to this argument, imo. The first being that voting isn't the only thing you can do. Someone who doesn't do anything except vote for the D candidate has done less than someone who's a community organizer, responsible journalist/entertainment media personality, has good respectful challenging conversations with conservative friends/family, etc., and doesn't vote. ESPECIALLY if you live in one of the MANY states where your vote doesn't actually matter. Like, everyone living in Nebraska voting for Biden, great. Except not really - your vote is worthless. The reward of the entire state is going to Trump. No matter what. Second being that not voting at all is exercising an action and is not necessarily passive. It's only passive if it's out of apathy or indifference. You surely believe this in other contexts where you'd refuse to play by a forced ultimatum someone is giving you. If voting were compulsory, and you didn't vote, that wouldn't be passive, that would a rebellious act. Third, voting isn't an expression of free speech. The Supreme Court has even said so. The two aren't fundamentally related, and thus you can vote for Baskin Robbins and still have every legal and ethical right to voice your displeasure.

Why not? I didn't vote for the steaming turd. I didn't contribute to the steaming turd's existence. I actively resist the steaming turd and its odor in how I live my life every day. I have ever literal right and every metaphorical right to criticize and disapprove of the steaming turd no matter if I voted for it, voted against it, or didn't vote at all.

What not voting means is subjective and personal to the person not voting, and includes a lot more possible explanations than just that one.

I don't tell people how to vote, or to vote, or who to vote for. Never have, never will. Also, settling for a compromise candidate has nothing to do with growing up. Included in my anecdotal observations of millenials commenting on Facebook today were plenty of mature, responsible, successful, ethical adults. Shaming people aint the way to get anywhere friends. Especially people jaded and resistant to the status quo.

Every single person I've seen on Facebook today under the age of 35 has expressed some form of dissatisfaction, frustration and disenfranchisement with Bernie dropping out, and not sure if they can bring themselves to vote for Biden. Normal, everyday, reasonable millenials - not crazed fringe folk. They won't be voting for Trump but a lot will be staying home. I think those of us who are older are underestimating just how jaded and exhausted the millenial generation is with establishment politics.

Yep. Every time I watch him it looks like I'm watching the older Mahershala Ali from True Detective season 3. It's not just his incohernt verbal stumbling, something in his eyes looks off too. I agree with you generally, but Trump runs on an anti-establishment populist narrative. What would the wedge have been if Bernie, who is also anti-establishment and populist, won? Yes he would find something no matter the outcome. But that doesn't discount that this particular outcome plays right into Trump's hand. I would be so thrilled to be wrong and eat crow but I can't currently really see Biden winning this.

Which would make him all the more ripe of a target to take advantage of for savvy players with nefarious ends. We saw that with Cheney and Bush.

AOC is just as if not moreso anti-establishment as Bernie is, so I don't think that's the case, but I am totally certain that there are plenty of Dem establishment players who wouldn't mind having another four years of Trump. They'll keep their positions of power, so what do they care?

Any more or less than saying, "You have to vote for Biden or else you're a bad person and Trump is your fault"?

He means black people.

He did fine in that debate. He hasn't done fine a large number of times over the last six months. Both are there, neither is the whole picture.

...jesus christ. When's the last time anyone has seen Biden deliver a coherent insightful sentence?