The Coming Evangelical Collapse

[knapplc]

No, I don't want to discuss religion with you. There is nothing to discuss. You believe what you believe, I believe what I believe, and neither of us are the judge of the other - something you seem to have forgotten.

 

Excellent. That clears up everything. I, however, do want and fully intend to continue discussing religion with the people on this board, most of whom seem like intelligent and open people. Whether there's a God or not is arguably the most important question human beings have ever asked themselves––there is something to discuss, whether you're comfortable with it or not. But from here on go ahead and assume that any religion threads I start or post in aren't aimed at you. That should here and forever solve the problem.

 

I am not the judge of you, but I will use reason to judge the merits your arguments. Anyone can spout any belief. Anyone can talk the talk. You have more than demonstrated for me that you are unwilling to, as the good book says, 'give a response to anyone who asks of you' the reason for your beliefs. And that's completely fine. It's always been fine. Where I start facepalming is when you then take an open forum on religion and politics and use the otherwise constructive space to accuse me of persecuting your faith because I question its veracity, function, and morality, and engage in a campaign of irrelevant commentary when you openly admit you have no interest in discussing religion.

Oh, whine, whine, whine. I did that once. You've called me and every other religious person a fool in several threads. You really should invest in a mirror.

[Husker_x]

No, I don't want to discuss religion with you. There is nothing to discuss. You believe what you believe, I believe what I believe, and neither of us are the judge of the other - something you seem to have forgotten.

 

Excellent. That clears up everything. I, however, do want and fully intend to continue discussing religion with the people on this board, most of whom seem like intelligent and open people. Whether there's a God or not is arguably the most important question human beings have ever asked themselves––there is something to discuss, whether you're comfortable with it or not. But from here on go ahead and assume that any religion threads I start or post in aren't aimed at you. That should here and forever solve the problem.

 

I am not the judge of you, but I will use reason to judge the merits your arguments. Anyone can spout any belief. Anyone can talk the talk. You have more than demonstrated for me that you are unwilling to, as the good book says, 'give a response to anyone who asks of you' the reason for your beliefs. And that's completely fine. It's always been fine. Where I start facepalming is when you then take an open forum on religion and politics and use the otherwise constructive space to accuse me of persecuting your faith because I question its veracity, function, and morality, and engage in a campaign of irrelevant commentary when you openly admit you have no interest in discussing religion.

Oh, whine, whine, whine. I did that once. You've called me and every other religious person a fool in several threads. You really should invest in a mirror.

 

Can you give me a link where i called you or all religious people fools?

[knapplc]

LINK

 

If you're pretending that wasn't some dig at Christians, I'd love to hear another explanation.

[Husker_x]

LINK

 

If you're pretending that wasn't some dig at Christians, I'd love to hear another explanation.

 

The link took me to the Jesus Camp video. For a second I thought it was a mistake, but given your threshold for insult, I'll assume it's what you meant.

 

Every person in that video is a professing Christian. I didn't even comment on the video, except to joke that the most egregious part was where she called Harry Potter an enemy of God. Was it a dig? I didn't say the people in the videos were fools, but apparently you came to that conclusion on your own. Regardless, swing and a miss.

 

But yes, I do think those children are being brainwashed by people claiming to know things they can't know, and are exploiting their credulity in harmful ways. Not all Christians sit in revival tents, so not all Christians can be accused of that kind of foolishness. Anything else?

[knapplc]

You posted that in response to my post:

 

Sorry, but the death of evangelical xian (and other religions, for that matter) influence / relevance can't happen soon enough. Good riddance.

 

What have I ever done to you?

 

If you're not implying that Christians are involved in brainwashing, that was an exceedingly poor choice of posts at that moment.

 

It's a really simple question: Do you respect Christians? Yes or no?

[Husker_x]

You posted that in response to my post:

 

Sorry, but the death of evangelical xian (and other religions, for that matter) influence / relevance can't happen soon enough. Good riddance.

 

What have I ever done to you?

 

If you're not implying that Christians are involved in brainwashing, that was an exceedingly poor choice of posts at that moment.

 

It's a really simple question: Do you respect Christians? Yes or no?

 

I think the video is titled brainwashing, but sorry for the confusion.

 

To the question. Yes, I respect Christian people.

 

But do I respect faith, claiming to know things you don't and can't know, the harmful actions taken by many Christians as a direct result of their faith, hideous insanities like the doctrine of hell? No, these I don't respect, certainly not with the poor arguments given in defense of some of them.

[huskertim]

Sorry if my commentary comes off a "drive by", but I simply don't blog on a daily (hourly) basis.

 

I consider myself a Christian and I assert that questioning my faith isn't a sign of spirtual weakness, but rather one of strenth. I am not offended when you insult me, rather I am instructed to turn the other cheek. In consideration, I beleive this has worked well for me.

 

Christ (at least by acconts) railed mightily against the religious authorities of his day both for their motives and for their lack of understanding of the scriptures. Am I so wise as to be above reproach?

 

My faith (not blind alliegence) will not be shaken by your assertions but strenthened trough meditation on the questions you pose.

 

My question to the secular among us though, what benefit have you derived from your atheism? A sense of superiority ? I hope not. Intellectual fulfillment? Then what are we seeking ?

 

I would caution that the arch of history favors not the faithless. A people without commonality of princple seldom retain a strenth that preserves them.

[Landlord]

Sorry if my commentary comes off a "drive by", but I simply don't blog on a daily (hourly) basis.

 

I consider myself a Christian and I assert that questioning my faith isn't a sign of spirtual weakness, but rather one of strenth. I am not offended when you insult me, rather I am instructed to turn the other cheek. In consideration, I beleive this has worked well for me.

 

Christ (at least by acconts) railed mightily against the religious authorities of his day both for their motives and for their lack of understanding of the scriptures. Am I so wise as to be above reproach?

 

My faith (not blind alliegence) will not be shaken by your assertions but strenthened trough meditation on the questions you pose.

 

My question to the secular among us though, what benefit have you derived from your atheism? A sense of superiority ? I hope not. Intellectual fulfillment? Then what are we seeking ?

 

I would caution that the arch of history favors not the faithless. A people without commonality of princple seldom retain a strenth that preserves them.

 

 

Pretty much my sentiments exactly. Good post .

[Husker_x]

My question to the secular among us though, what benefit have you derived from your atheism? A sense of superiority ? I hope not. Intellectual fulfillment? Then what are we seeking ?

 

What benefit have you derived from yours? As a Christian you are an atheist with regard to every other god except your own. I went one further is all. Benefits package includes sleeping in on Sunday, and the removal of a priori assumptions that you are bound to believe by threat of a fate worse than death.

 

I would caution that the arch of history favors not the faithless. A people without commonality of princple seldom retain a strenth that preserves them.

 

I don't accept the premise of the second sentence, which is that there is a commonality of principle within religion. There isn't. I don't accept that if only I believed a talking snake duped a couple of teenagers into eating an enchanted apple, or that Jehovah sent bears to maul children for mocking a prophet, or that taking something on faith is superior to investigation, or that a carpenter was cruelly murdered in first century Palestine––all coming to me by way of hearsay––that it would be sufficient grounds for the absolute expression of moral truth.

[rawhide]

But you can believe that when you die, that's it; dirt nap for ever and ever wow how sad my $.02 okay $.009 due to the poor economic times

 

 

GBR

 

look out for the drive by; damn mods

[HUSKER 37]

But you can believe that when you die, that's it; dirt nap for ever and ever wow how sad my $.02 okay $.009 due to the poor economic times

 

 

GBR

 

look out for the drive by; damn mods

 

Don't quote me on this.

But I'm pretty sure the promise of an afterlife was purely an invention of most all religions to appeal to the masses..Never an intention by God.

[knapplc]

But you can believe that when you die, that's it; dirt nap for ever and ever wow how sad my $.02 okay $.009 due to the poor economic times

 

 

GBR

 

look out for the drive by; damn mods

 

Don't quote me on this.

But I'm pretty sure the promise of an afterlife was purely an invention of most all religions to appeal to the masses..Never an intention by God.

In both the Koran and the Bible Mohammad and Jesus assert that there is an afterlife. It's been a long time since I looked at the Quran so I'm not 100% that Mohammad promised Paradise, but it's in there. Jesus told the man on the cross next to him that he would see the man in paradise that day, because he believed.

 

Of course, to believe this you're going to have to take either the Quran or the Bible as truth, and that's another whole conversation.

[huskertim]

My question to the secular among us though, what benefit have you derived from your atheism? A sense of superiority ? I hope not. Intellectual fulfillment? Then what are we seeking ?

 

What benefit have you derived from yours? As a Christian you are an atheist with regard to every other god except your own. I went one further is all. Benefits package includes sleeping in on Sunday, and the removal of a priori assumptions that you are bound to believe by threat of a fate worse than death.

 

I would caution that the arch of history favors not the faithless. A people without commonality of princple seldom retain a strenth that preserves them.

 

I don't accept the premise of the second sentence, which is that there is a commonality of principle within religion. There isn't. I don't accept that if only I believed a talking snake duped a couple of teenagers into eating an enchanted apple, or that Jehovah sent bears to maul children for mocking a prophet, or that taking something on faith is superior to investigation, or that a carpenter was cruelly murdered in first century Palestine––all coming to me by way of hearsay––that it would be sufficient grounds for the absolute expression of moral truth.

 

As to my benefits pkg, I find solice in my faith, I find fufillment in service both to God and to others. I do not act as I do in fear, but in love. I enjoy my spirituality and find that when my mind, body, and spirit are out of balance, I am unhappy. To ignore what I seem biologically as well as socialogically compelled to do is not logical. Indeed, if the persuit of self actuallization is inconsistant with my human nature then both I and Mr. Maslow have some serious rethinking to do.

 

As to the presumtion that the commanallity to which I reffered above is a dogmatic adherance to a singular notion of what you've been told we wack job Christians beleive, it is not.

 

As with any persuit of deeper understanding, it is as much the journey as the destination I seek. I'm pretty sure I've made it clear that faith and "investigation" are IMO better married than devorced. In my breif study of astronomy I glimpsed the vastness of a universe that is simply behond human comprehension. In my brief study of nuclear physics I glimpsed a multiplicity of structure and design that too, is inmeasurably beyond us.

To think I, or any person could begin to know all that is, is insane vanity. Conversely, to claim to know all that is not, is likewise.

 

I suspect, that you have a fundamental problem with the notion that one group of people stand if moral judgement of another. This is understandable, I agree with the sentiment. It appeals to our inate sense of justice, but to some degree, aren't you doing likewise?

[huskerswrkhavoc]

What bothers me is that people routinely ignore anything that doesn't support what they are trying to get across. The bible isn't a book that is 100% factual. As someone who believes in Jesus as the Savior and grown up in school learning about things, i'll make that statement. Nothing is more annoying than people that quote every little thing from the bible and take it to be exactly what it says. It wasn't meant to be that way. Also, the notion that there is no god is quite amusing, since scientists even have said MULTIPLE times, that there is a greater being, whatever or whomever it may be. There simply isn't a way to scientifically prove everything that has happened on this earth, ever heard the term miracle? Now as far as the video goes, I didn't watch it, but going from the title, and how X used it as a reply to "What have I ever done to you" from knapp, I'll assume (like most would) that it is a shot at Christianity in general, especially since its quite apparent that knapp wasn't there in the video. To which I must say, grow up. Don't sit and take stabs at persons or groups just because you don't believe what they believe. Of course, you're not taking stabs at anyone and you respect Christians, I'm sure you do.

[huskertim]

The idea that the Bible was written in consistantly literal prose is rediculous. As a complelation of many different authors over many centuries, it would be hard to assume that any one style of writing would be exclusive. The general concensus that I've encounted with theologians is that the Bible is many things, a geneology and history of the Hebrew people, a philosophical guide to life, a moral compass upon which to build the laws of man, among others. The point is that the authors give us a window into the human experience and relate the trials as well as the joys therein. It is far more a book about Gods blessings than his derisions but man sees only what he will open his eyes to see.