*** Official World Cup 2010 Thread***

[bennychico11]

The US should have gotten ten minutes added onto the end for all the bullsh#t that Ghana was pulling. Phantom injuries, strolls for substitutions, taking a minute to execute a throw in. I'm sorry but fans of the sport have to realize that this is working the system in absurd ways that have no peer in popular American sports. Milking the clock is a part of the game, but do it on the damn field, not when play has stopped. Add onto this that refs are allowed to disallow goals without telling anyone the call or being subject to official review, soccer has some deep, deep issues to hammer out before it contends with the likes of football in America.

 

Most fans familiar with the game agree that the dives/phantom injuries needs to be addressed. It's a cultural thing in that some countries do it more than others. And the ref tries to call it the best he can. As you can see the ref this game didn't fall for some of the "injuries." But there's not much that can be done with guys who drag their ass getting up or leaving the field during a substitution. The ref does control the clock and will pause the game clock as he sees fit (which is why we have added time at the end of the game). But if the ref hasn't stopped the clock for a specific reason, Ghana has the right to milk it just as much as Nebraska's football offense can wait until the last possible second to snap the ball.

Referring to refs disallowing goals without telling anyone the call...most refs will tell the players what he's calling. It's just the announcers/coaches/fans won't hear the call because, unlike football they don't have a mic system where he can relay it over to the entire audience. I actually like this because it allows the ref to control the game on the field. Because the game is about what's going on there...not what the fans are doing or think. The game has been around for a long time and I can understand its reluctance to accept technology into it by adding official review. The game is controlled by one single guy. It has been for years and I think it should still be.

disclaimer: I'm a former soccer referee

[EbylHusker]

The real problem for the US is that we just don't have the horses to consistently compete at the highest level. And that's because the sport is still growing in popularity here, so the focus really isn't there yet for real youth development at the level many other countries have. It will continue to gain a stronger and stronger foothold, regardless of the time wasting and all that, but it's a slow process. I'm talking multiple decades, not just a few years. It's a process that was really begun back in the 90's and continues to this day.

 

Bradly does alright. Most of his decisions this WC were pretty good except with Clark starting. I'm still confused about that. Alditore had an excellent game against Algeria, but he was off this game (along with most of the team). Saying he's lazy is just flat wrong.

 

Back to not having the horses - it's both physical and mental. Our players have only just begun finding their way into better and better leagues. The MLS really doesn't count. And while the team has a "never give up" attitude, which is great, the mental awareness just isn't there for most of them. This type of play and player and can only take you so far in the WC before it gives out on you, which we saw today.

 

All the pieces will fall into place over time, but it won't be a rapid thing.

 

Edit - To be honest, just looking at it from a basic viewpoint, the US shouldn't advance past the quarters. Because of the draw they had a great chance to get to the semis, but the US is really a quaterfinals only team at this point.

[whateveritis1224]

I'd give Bradley until the next Concacaf Cup (is it the Gold Cup?) or even the Confed Cup to prove himself as the US coach. A finals appearance is definitely a must, and even then they should only lose to Mexico in that game. It's just that I think Bradley plays guys that he's familiar with too much. Why he started Clark and Findley (who'd been ineffective in the first two games and missed a golden opportunity in this one) is beyond me when he had a line-up that had produced and shown that they could play at the highest level.

 

I won't put down Bornstein because he did have his two best games these last two and his mistakes (if there were any) didn't lead to anything bad.

 

Though I'm looking ahead to 2014 and coming into this WC I thought that we'd have more of a chance to do a deep run in 4 years rather then this year. A lot of our contributing players are in either there early 20s or in their mid 20s. Given another 4 years to develop and I don't think there will be a team that would/could dominate us. We could lose some of our defenders (losing Boca will probably be the hardest hit with Demerit next), but I'm sure we have a defender somewhere that could step up (there's Goodson that made this squad and was somewhat impressive in the lead up games). Onyewu has one more Cup in him (and playing for AC Milan will only help him).

 

Just with a lot of our players just now in the last few years playing overseas in the top leagues, the US can only get better.

 

I am disappointed that this Cup ended the way it did for the US, but I look at the future with a great amount of optimism.

[Husker_x]

The US should have gotten ten minutes added onto the end for all the bullsh#t that Ghana was pulling. Phantom injuries, strolls for substitutions, taking a minute to execute a throw in. I'm sorry but fans of the sport have to realize that this is working the system in absurd ways that have no peer in popular American sports. Milking the clock is a part of the game, but do it on the damn field, not when play has stopped. Add onto this that refs are allowed to disallow goals without telling anyone the call or being subject to official review, soccer has some deep, deep issues to hammer out before it contends with the likes of football in America.

 

Most fans familiar with the game agree that the dives/phantom injuries needs to be addressed. It's a cultural thing in that some countries do it more than others. And the ref tries to call it the best he can. As you can see the ref this game didn't fall for some of the "injuries." But there's not much that can be done with guys who drag their ass getting up or leaving the field during a substitution. The ref does control the clock and will pause the game clock as he sees fit (which is why we have added time at the end of the game). But if the ref hasn't stopped the clock for a specific reason, Ghana has the right to milk it just as much as Nebraska's football offense can wait until the last possible second to snap the ball.

 

Referring to refs disallowing goals without telling anyone the call...most refs will tell the players what he's calling. It's just the announcers/coaches/fans won't hear the call because, unlike football they don't have a mic system where he can relay it over to the entire audience. I actually like this because it allows the ref to control the game on the field. Because the game is about what's going on there...not what the fans are doing or think. The game has been around for a long time and I can understand its reluctance to accept technology into it by adding official review. The game is controlled by one single guy. It has been for years and I think it should still be.

disclaimer: I'm a former soccer referee

 

On the dives, yes. There is no discussion on this point. Europeans can do whatever they want, but if soccer is going to be a mainstay in the US, feigning contact and injury when those actions can lead to penalty kicks or dangerous free kicks basically undermines the entire game, especially when half the WC games have been 1-0.

 

The analogy to Nebraska milking the clock is a poor one, and here's why. The clock stops and starts based on standardized procedures. Nebraska couldn't possibly take an entire minute or two fiddling around because they have forty seconds, exactly forty seconds, and if the center still has the ball under him when the time runs out, five yard penalty and the game clock stops. Injuries ALWAYS result in the clock being stopped. For these two reasons, soccer has no comparison to football, and is a more subjective and less fair game. Teams can work the system instead of defeating their opponent, and I think it should be addressed.

 

'Most refs' telling 'most players' 'most calls' is exactly the problem. All refs should tell all players and all coaches and all fans all calls at all times. Period. While I realize one of the refs who screwed the US over was penalized, a lot of good it would have done our team if we'd lost. Refs shouldn't control games; rules and regulations of a game should control the game. Allowing one man to oversee an enormous field with 24 players on it when he is answerable to no one during the game itself is a recipe for disaster. Fans of soccer are actually in a better position to make calls than the refs are, simply because we have replay available to us. Replay could be implemented on a very small scale, say when a goal was involved. Even football doesn't allow pass INT calls to get reviewed.

[strigori]

The US should have gotten ten minutes added onto the end for all the bullsh#t that Ghana was pulling. Phantom injuries, strolls for substitutions, taking a minute to execute a throw in. I'm sorry but fans of the sport have to realize that this is working the system in absurd ways that have no peer in popular American sports. Milking the clock is a part of the game, but do it on the damn field, not when play has stopped. Add onto this that refs are allowed to disallow goals without telling anyone the call or being subject to official review, soccer has some deep, deep issues to hammer out before it contends with the likes of football in America.

 

Most fans familiar with the game agree that the dives/phantom injuries needs to be addressed. It's a cultural thing in that some countries do it more than others. And the ref tries to call it the best he can. As you can see the ref this game didn't fall for some of the "injuries." But there's not much that can be done with guys who drag their ass getting up or leaving the field during a substitution. The ref does control the clock and will pause the game clock as he sees fit (which is why we have added time at the end of the game). But if the ref hasn't stopped the clock for a specific reason, Ghana has the right to milk it just as much as Nebraska's football offense can wait until the last possible second to snap the ball.

 

Referring to refs disallowing goals without telling anyone the call...most refs will tell the players what he's calling. It's just the announcers/coaches/fans won't hear the call because, unlike football they don't have a mic system where he can relay it over to the entire audience. I actually like this because it allows the ref to control the game on the field. Because the game is about what's going on there...not what the fans are doing or think. The game has been around for a long time and I can understand its reluctance to accept technology into it by adding official review. The game is controlled by one single guy. It has been for years and I think it should still be.

disclaimer: I'm a former soccer referee

 

On the dives, yes. There is no discussion on this point. Europeans can do whatever they want, but if soccer is going to be a mainstay in the US, feigning contact and injury when those actions can lead to penalty kicks or dangerous free kicks basically undermines the entire game, especially when half the WC games have been 1-0.

 

The analogy to Nebraska milking the clock is a poor one, and here's why. The clock stops and starts based on standardized procedures. Nebraska couldn't possibly take an entire minute or two fiddling around because they have forty seconds, exactly forty seconds, and if the center still has the ball under him when the time runs out, five yard penalty and the game clock stops. Injuries ALWAYS result in the clock being stopped. For these two reasons, soccer has no comparison to football, and is a more subjective and less fair game. Teams can work the system instead of defeating their opponent, and I think it should be addressed.

 

'Most refs' telling 'most players' 'most calls' is exactly the problem. All refs should tell all players and all coaches and all fans all calls at all times. Period. While I realize one of the refs who screwed the US over was penalized, a lot of good it would have done our team if we'd lost. Refs shouldn't control games; rules and regulations of a game should control the game. Allowing one man to oversee an enormous field with 24 players on it when he is answerable to no one during the game itself is a recipe for disaster. Fans of soccer are actually in a better position to make calls than the refs are, simply because we have replay available to us. Replay could be implemented on a very small scale, say when a goal was involved. Even football doesn't allow pass INT calls to get reviewed.

I totally agree with you. This sport is little more than a joke with how the clock system runs. And its only one of the many issue that will keep this sport from ever being popular in this country. The refs having as much control over games is absurd. No one knows how much time is there, and the refs are not even required to state what penalty they are calling. And neither the ref nor Fifa comment on officiating after a game.

[default_28]

I'd give Bradley until the next Concacaf Cup (is it the Gold Cup?) or even the Confed Cup to prove himself as the US coach. A finals appearance is definitely a must, and even then they should only lose to Mexico in that game. It's just that I think Bradley plays guys that he's familiar with too much. Why he started Clark and Findley (who'd been ineffective in the first two games and missed a golden opportunity in this one) is beyond me when he had a line-up that had produced and shown that they could play at the highest level.

 

I won't put down Bornstein because he did have his two best games these last two and his mistakes (if there were any) didn't lead to anything bad.

 

Though I'm looking ahead to 2014 and coming into this WC I thought that we'd have more of a chance to do a deep run in 4 years rather then this year. A lot of our contributing players are in either there early 20s or in their mid 20s. Given another 4 years to develop and I don't think there will be a team that would/could dominate us. We could lose some of our defenders (losing Boca will probably be the hardest hit with Demerit next), but I'm sure we have a defender somewhere that could step up (there's Goodson that made this squad and was somewhat impressive in the lead up games). Onyewu has one more Cup in him (and playing for AC Milan will only help him).

 

Just with a lot of our players just now in the last few years playing overseas in the top leagues, the US can only get better.

 

I am disappointed that this Cup ended the way it did for the US, but I look at the future with a great amount of optimism.

 

I agree that Bradley plays the guys he is most familiar with, although he might be coming around as he made IMO right move by taking Buddle and Gomez over Ching

Ching being a guy with many caps who Bradley seemed to favor as his Striker replacement for the first few years of his tenure

 

I like how the next four years set up for the US, I'm excited to see how Edu and Bornstein develope, I think a four wide midfield of Dempsey, Edu, Bradley and Donovan would be very serviceable

 

The defense is what scares me, Boca seems most consistent and losing him will hurt be he isn't top grade himself, I like Bornstein and Spector but have never been sold on Onyewu or Demerit though he plays really well sometimes

[Street Novelist]

Uruguay Defeats South Korea 2-1

 

http://videos.sapo.pt/BdEvBgFOpOrsgDRKMWP5

[Street Novelist]

Ghana Beats USA 2-1 In Extra Time

 

http://videos.sapo.pt/z76QvUqNm5lfMKZzogjs

[Street Novelist]

Germany Blasts England 4-1

 

http://videos.sapo.pt/32fKE4wiSmUVjtvyvACS

 

Lampard's shot should have tied it up before halftime, but the referee mistakenly ruled it a no-goal. Replays clearly show the ball had indeed crossed the line.

[Street Novelist]

Argentina Disposes Of Mexico 3-1

 

http://videos.sapo.pt/yCzTDhUTbEyzOlKOs85U

 

Yes, Argentina profited from a bad first goal which was offside. But Mexico let it go to their heads and completely unraveled.

[Street Novelist]

ESPN's Highlight Of England/Germany

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nW8SY3-6b5I

[Street Novelist]

ESPN's Highlight Of Argentina/Mexico

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nIKCiGPh93g

[bennychico11]

I totally agree with you. This sport is little more than a joke with how the clock system runs. And its only one of the many issue that will keep this sport from ever being popular in this country. The refs having as much control over games is absurd. No one knows how much time is there, and the refs are not even required to state what penalty they are calling. And neither the ref nor Fifa comment on officiating after a game.

 

as it should be.

FIFA is the main governing body over all outdoor soccer/football games. Whether it be 12 year olds playing with the only fans being the parents or professionals playing for their country. FIFA rules are the same across the board. And since we can't have replay rules for 12 year olds...we don't for the pros. This is how it's been for years, just as it was for many years in every other sport before technology.

Soccer isn't the only sport that doesn't use replay. Baseball doesn't. The missed/bad calls usually even each other out. For every wrong call on one team, there's another for the other one. The sport has always been controlled by a single ref. Personally since the instant replay rules started in football, I get tired of how long it's been dragging things on. And of course, fans watching TV still question some of the official rules. Even though I question referees in the games I play in...I still prefer the human element of the game.

 

referring to the clock. The clock is 90 minutes long with added time for subs/injury time outs. So I don't see how it's a joke...there's no ambiguity. The game isn't about something happening in the last 2 seconds that can turn the game around like it does in football or basketball. If you can't do anything in the 90min.+extra time, too late. The last two seconds aren't going to save you.

Another team might try and drag out the extra time, but if the referee determines you're wasting time (usually they keep a time limit in their head as to how long it's taking the goalie to release the ball or the other team to get up off the ground)...they'll card you and/or turn the ball over to the other team as a penalty.

[bennychico11]

 

Lampard's shot should have tied it up before halftime, but the referee mistakenly ruled it a no-goal. Replays clearly show the ball had indeed crossed the line.

 

England, another one of the disappointments this year. I'd be interested to see if Germany is for real or not. They've been turning up with some big blowouts

[Street Novelist]

Brazil Takes Care Of Chile 3-0

 

http://videos.sapo.pt/Vc9zG47ltAzgfETQ6hk3

 

Despite putting pressure on Brazil and maintaining the majority of possession for the first 30 minutes of the match, in the end Brazil's talent won out. Juan headed one in off a beautiful corner from Maicon in the 35th minute to give Brazil a 1-0 lead. Fabiano added a second in the 38th minute off a beautiful pass from Kaka, with a 1 touch past the keeper and another easily into the net. Robinho joined the fun in the 59th minute with a beautiful one-timer into the upper right corner, off a beautiful run by Ramires.